Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 2012

Has science taken a wrong turn? If so, what corrections are needed? Chronicles of scientific misbehavior. The role of heretic-pioneers and forbidden questions in the sciences. Is peer review working? The perverse "consensus of leading scientists." Good public relations versus good science.

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Sparky » Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:58 am

Things are not all that cut and dried
Absolutely ...what I see is that people's life experience, a collection of speculations, assumptions, and ideologies built around these, compel people to shoehorn new observations into those and to come up with a conclusion that fits. Indeed, observations are twisted by our ideologies. And almost all conclusions are fallacious, in that they are not taking into account all evidence available or that can be made available.

Those who can say, I don't know, nor understand enough, are the more honest over those who give speculations as cause to evidence .

Those who can manipulate effects believe that they possess knowledge beyond the level at which they are working. They may have some understanding of the effect that most others do not, but they are still working at the exoteric level in that area, and at the more esoteric level, the more speculations come to play.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Julian Braggins » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:13 am

Thank you Sparky,
And if you are the same Sparky that posted the jokes on the open thread at WUWT today, thank you again, I needed cheering up as my wife died three weeks ago and she would appreciate them, with maybe a retaliation, or change of sex for the Hazardous Materials plaque. :D

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Sparky » Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:54 pm

Julian, I am so sorry to hear of your recent, terrible loss. I am glad that you are able to find and respond to humor.

No, another "sparky". :|
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Aristarchus » Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:29 pm

Phorce wrote:Science needs to be more honest about its history and more relativistic in its approach. This forceful promotion of absolute universally applicable principles has got dangerously close to a Religion - in fact many say there is actually no difference any more.
It appears from my current perspective at this juncture in my life, and with the little knowledge that I have thus far been able to acquire, that there is something amiss to the point of subterfuge in the educational system when it comes to science - i.e., a purposeful withholding of knowledge that might prove alternative to the control mechanisms that enable the machination of our society. We need teachers and instructors that specialize in the subject area that is the History of Science using a polymath approach. Instead, we have regurgitators produced by the universities that become teachers and begin the social engineering of our young students to accept dogma passed off as science.

Near the end of Arthur C. Clark's book, Childhood's End, the purpose of the aliens ("the Watchers") controlling the inhabitants of Earth in an existence that did away with war and a great deal of the violence, but also influencing the near-stoppage of pursuing space ventures, was revealed by the Watchers in a broadcast to all humankind. In the latter, it was stated that the Watchers served a greater duty to a high power than themselves, but now Earth children were being born with special powers that would be such an extraordinary evolutional step, it was no longer possible for these children to remain on Earth and that the history of humankind as it was, was essentially over. There was no more need for the Watchers' purpose on Earth either. The overlords had done their duty to an unexplained, but, mind you, more advanced beings, unknown, but of some undefined scientifically higher evolved vocation. Whatever the hell that means.

Furthermore, the great interest that the Watchers had in the paranormal was due to a scientific correlation as opposed to a superstitious one. The Earth children that now seemed to possess other worldly powers was due to some scientific transformation beyond the knowledge of even the Watchers, but the new religion was science.

I scratched my head reading that part of Clarke's book: Science is the new religion that has replaced the superstitious religion, and that science, as the new religion, is unexplained and lacking any observational validation - but - rest assured - regardless - it is science. Come again?

Science is a method, not an establishment. Superstition is also just a word used by those that are uncomfortable with the unknown. When one addresses and admits to the unknown, one also entertains the unexpected, and the unexplained is never finally resolved, because there will always be another puzzle.

You see, nothing is ever really explained with these lazy renderings of the two words: Trust us, it's scientific. Ah, don't trust it, it's just superstition. Because, you're just using words and then watching them fall into your lap like crumbs, but you then pick up the crumbs and reuse them without considering what a dead piece of cake you now have.

David Bohm was never successful and grew frustrated trying to create a verb based entirely proactive language due to the fact that our civilization today lacks a true shared cultural experience. There's too much conceptualization. Too much social engineering. Too much predictive programming produced and consumed through the media. Ever in the city do we find ourselves so much alone. Ever in the information age are we so ill-informed. Ever in the pursuit of truth do we find ourselves increasingly alienated. Deceiving ourselves that there is a causality and concatenation to our existence; whereas, everything is cyclical, revolving around itself in search of its self.

The physical is just the stage, but the spiritual is the understanding, the intuitive, the realization of the repetitive miracle of Nature, the reprocessing, the rebirth. Those minds of antiquity realized all this and more. The only thing our endemically pathological postmodern civilization can conjure through science is some antiquated and quaint 19th century materialistic notion that we fear non-existence and that religion is the opium of the people. However, there's nothing comforting or assuaging about the unknown. It is the self-proclaimed master elite with a Big Bang desperation for an origin and an end of space and time that are seeking validation - comfort in the fact that they can know some unified experience of the universe that is currently lacking in their own existence - or that all those academic and educational loans add up to something claimed to be theoretical significant physics, instead of something simply known as the school of Peripatetic conjecturing (a.k.a., intellectual wankers, a.k.a., idiot savants).
An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Phorce » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:55 am

Intellectual masturbation ? I can't give you a full reply at the moment but you mention the so called "Scientific Method". Apparently, in Against Method, Feyerabend exposes (and he does it very adeptly I might add) that in practice there has never been any so called formal method used in many important discoveries. Or to put it more accurately, the scientific method has never been formalised in a universally agreed fashion, contrary to what many science publicists assert. I have not yet read Against Method yet, but Farewell to Reason repeats some of the same themes.

Another work that your post immediately reminded me of is the film Mindwalk which is an exploration of some of these themes and is a work I highly recommend getting hold of. I'll reply in more detail later.
Exploration and discovery without honest investigation of "extraordinary" results leads to a Double Bind (Bateson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind ) that creates loss of hope and depression. No more Double Binds !

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Aristarchus » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:25 pm

Phorce,

I was under the impression that my response was confluent with what I quoted from your previous positing.

Well, I believe my point pertained to something along the lines of "observed and measured phenomena." - And - mix that up with the occasional experiment now and then. Let's say, we go back to the 13th century with using redundant and cyclical observations, independent verifications, experimentations that comports with either validating or disqualifying the original hypothesis.

Then, when all is said and done, come to an epiphany that what is called scientific findings in one era, will be found out wrong in a new era based off the latter’s different conceptualizations and paradigms.

If that be the case, science evolves, just as spirtual identity evolves, never quite exacting, but always exciting in the mystery.
An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Julian Braggins » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:45 pm

Aristarchus » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:29 am
You put it very well.

An example of investigation into the persistence of memory and the cyclic nature of life was performed by an acquaintance of mine, a psychiatrist whose family I know well.

He found that hypnotic regression could be taken to before birth in a number of patients.
Some of these related incidents in previous lifetimes that were open to verification. He selected four of the most promising, and got the funding and oversight of a TV channel and recording team, including independent witnesses, 60 Minutes Channel 9.

The group went from Australia, where the subjects had spent their whole lives, to the UK and Europe, taking with them details and drawings of objects and life histories that could be discovered, all pre-recorded.

The results verified in almost all cases, the exception being in Germany where the city in question had been totally altered as a result of WW 2, but even there there were confirmation details in buildings found with help. In the other cases in Scotland, England and France the subjects guided the team to the sites and objects and documents found as described, one of them buried since Henry 8ths time.

A documentary resulted in the 80's, and a book, The Truth about Reincarnation,
Peter Ramster, publisher Rigby, Australia.

The subject does not lend itself to a true scientific experiment, but results such as these are sufficient , with a host of other investigations ( Banergee, 3000 cases suggestive of reincarnation, Stevenson, 20 very thorough cases suggesting reincarnation etc.) gives proof enough for me.

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Aristarchus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:55 pm

Julian,

There's synchronicity for you. I was driving home late Friday, and there was some talk radio program discussing that very study you mentioned on reincarnation. The host of the radio program covers a plethora of various topics, mostly aspects of the law, but on Friday's he opens it up to casual topics - and reincarnation was the one for that night.

I have been doing my own research and writing, and that involves investigation of the books, The Saturn Myth, and Worlds in Collision, as it pertains to memory in humankind from past mass traumatic events. One focus is on the idea that reincarnation was almost universally a valid acceptance in many cultures around the world, until the anomaly of rejecting it that came from the Early Church arising out of Rome. If the Gnostics were not genocided by Rome, we might have seen such a common notion as reincarnation based off the observations of Nature and seasons play a more prevalent role in the Occidental world.

I believe that science today, suffers in part, due to a true lack of reciprocation with Nature, which has had the affect of dulling our intuitiveness. Intellect is simply not the be all end all, IMO.
An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Julian Braggins » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:10 am

Aristarchus ,
Yes, and I have had a few since my wife died.
a google search for "The Cross Correspondences" will come up with pages on these but the first is by Victor Zammit who wrote a brief chapter on them in his free ebook. The following is the conclusion at the end of the chapter :-

The most convincing proof of the reality of life after death ever set down on paper (Wilson 1987:183).

Colin Wilson, himself a former skeptic and now a writer with an international reputation did investigate. He writes:

Taken as a whole, the Cross Correspondences and the Willett scripts are among the most convincing evidence that at present exists for life after death. For anyone who is prepared to devote weeks to studying them, they prove beyond all reasonable doubt that Myers, Gurney and Sidgwick went on communicating after death (Wilson 1987: 179).

The Myers Cross Correspondences have successfully showed using the experiential scientific method that what was transmitted from the medium was not from the medium's own unconscious.
[
(my highlight)

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Phorce » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:40 am

OK, here's my the more lengthy reply that I promised.
Aristarchus wrote:
Phorce wrote:Science needs to be more honest about its history and more relativistic in its approach. This forceful promotion of absolute universally applicable principles has got dangerously close to a Religion - in fact many say there is actually no difference any more.
It appears from my current perspective at this juncture in my life, and with the little knowledge that I have thus far been able to acquire, that there is something amiss to the point of subterfuge in the educational system when it comes to science - i.e., a purposeful withholding of knowledge that might prove alternative to the control mechanisms that enable the machination of our society.
The book Deschooling Society covers this topic, although I have not had time to read it yet.
We need teachers and instructors that specialize in the subject area that is the History of Science using a polymath approach. Instead, we have regurgitators produced by the universities that become teachers and begin the social engineering of our young students to accept dogma passed off as science.
Yes, the history of science, because it's the context of where the knowledge was first developed that determines it's "truth". There's also some personal responsibility that can be exercised in order for the student to think for themselves. Maybe it's not so much the mass regurgitation but the tendency of many pupils to believe everything they are told. These days I realise that the better teachers at my "Comprehensive" school were trying to get me to question and think for myself. I can remember specific instances when I thought that I had "misunderstood" some piece of academic work only to be surprised when I was rewarded for my work. I was rewarded because I had developed my own approach.
Near the end of Arthur C. Clark's book, Childhood's End, the purpose of the aliens ("the Watchers") controlling the inhabitants of Earth in an existence that did away with war and a great deal of the violence, but also influencing the near-stoppage of pursuing space ventures, was revealed by the Watchers in a broadcast to all humankind. In the latter, it was stated that the Watchers served a greater duty to a high power than themselves, but now Earth children were being born with special powers that would be such an extraordinary evolutional step, it was no longer possible for these children to remain on Earth and that the history of humankind as it was, was essentially over. There was no more need for the Watchers' purpose on Earth either. The overlords had done their duty to an unexplained, but, mind you, more advanced beings, unknown, but of some undefined scientifically higher evolved vocation. Whatever the hell that means.
Alienated defenders of Orthodox Science ? Seems to me Clarke is using a metaphor here for what we have actually been dealing with. "Watchers" = Psuedoskeptics ? Anyway, so called "powers" are natural. I believe we have always had them. So called Clairvoyance, Psychism, Synchronicity, deep awareness and connection with nature. If you look at some of the experiments done with DNA then it appears to be light emitting as well as electromagnetic and gravimetric. There is evidence that we are in close contact with the natural electromagnetic fields and things like photon signalling between plants ... probably to humans as well. All these things carry on regardless of if they are proven or not (and are highly likely to be invloved in Sheldrakes Morphogenetic Fields), but there we have this massive intellectual conceit. Many scientists, or at least the self ordained "protectors of science" actually appear to believe that if their science has not discovered it then it simply does not exist. Therefore sort of turning the history of science on it's head ! Curiosity and observation back to ancient times always noticed the unexplained phenomena FIRST and endeavoured to understand it ... usually as part of some problem society had rather than simply to find "scientific principles" just for the sake of defining them. Look at the worldwide megalithic structures which appear to be an ancient practical knowledge of some kind of geo-science. Plant growth has been shown to improve in the Stonehenge structures for example and there are other ways of testing this because it has to do with the make up of the stones (paramagnetic, etc) and their interaction with natural electromagnetic fields. It is highly likely that much of this network of ancient structures was intended to help with the health of the land, crop growth and society in general. I believe that in many ways we already "made the jump" (your "extraordinary evolutional step") many millennia ago. The ancients have been - and still are - enlightened in many areas that we now call science. Now has been a kind of dark age based on the conceit (yes that again) that we represent some kind of pinnacle of exploration (Mars rovers notwithstanding).
Furthermore, the great interest that the Watchers had in the paranormal was due to a scientific correlation as opposed to a superstitious one. The Earth children that now seemed to possess other worldly powers was due to some scientific transformation beyond the knowledge of even the Watchers, but the new religion was science.
Or they just could not understand it ? Orthodox Science has a problem. It has identified so many areas as simply "Pseudo-science" that it can no longer explain many things. Paralysis. However I currently believe this is changing because diligent researchers simply go around this problem.
I scratched my head reading that part of Clarke's book: Science is the new religion that has replaced the superstitious religion, and that science, as the new religion, is unexplained and lacking any observational validation - but - rest assured - regardless - it is science. Come again?
Feyerabend identifies a similar sort of thing. His books can look like an "attack" on science but he is simply pointing out the bad or dark side of a science that should be serving humanity not leading it astray. The darker side is especially obvious in medicine. However our modern science is a valuable part of society in many ways. The problematic side often seems to come from the scientific elite who attempt to protect abstract principles that often don't have much to do with Science in practice. For example look at the history of Quantum Mechanics which in some areas has never been accepted by orthodox science yet many of our technological devices depend in it's discoveries.
Science is a method, not an establishment. Superstition is also just a word used by those that are uncomfortable with the unknown. When one addresses and admits to the unknown, one also entertains the unexpected, and the unexplained is never finally resolved, because there will always be another puzzle.

You see, nothing is ever really explained with these lazy renderings of the two words: Trust us, it's scientific. Ah, don't trust it, it's just superstition. Because, you're just using words and then watching them fall into your lap like crumbs, but you then pick up the crumbs and reuse them without considering what a dead piece of cake you now have.
"The use of writing for preserving information of a more substantial kind [more than recording business transactions] was criticised by Plato. 'You know, Phaedrus,' says Socrates (Phaedrus, 275d2ff),

that's the strange thing about writing, which makes it truly analogous to painting. The painter's products stand before us as though they were alive, but if you question them, they maintain a most majestic silence. It is the same with written words; they seem to talk to you as though they were intelligent, but if you ask them anything about what they say, from a desire to be instructed, they go on telling you the same thing forever. And once a thing is put in writing, the composition, whatever it may be, drifts all over the place, getting into the hands not only of those who understand it, but equally of those who have no business with it; it doesn't know how to address the right people, and not address the wrong. And when it is ill treated and unfairly abused it always needs its parent to come to its help, being unable to defend or help itself."
Farewell to Reason p109

Feyerabend quotes this to make a point about the way our focus has moved to learning from written texts ... "Written notes aid them in remembering the stages of their participation. Being incapable of replacing the process, they are useless for outsiders". The history of science - the context and where the knowledge was developed - is paramount. But "defenders of science" are often ignorant of the history of their own science and end up promoting your "crumbs".
David Bohm was never successful and grew frustrated trying to create a verb based entirely proactive language due to the fact that our civilization today lacks a true shared cultural experience. There's too much conceptualization. Too much social engineering. Too much predictive programming produced and consumed through the media. Ever in the city do we find ourselves so much alone. Ever in the information age are we so ill-informed. Ever in the pursuit of truth do we find ourselves increasingly alienated. Deceiving ourselves that there is a causality and concatenation to our existence; whereas, everything is cyclical, revolving around itself in search of its self.
Life and reality are not based purely on argumentation or language but also facial expressions and thousands of other indicators.

"Where we are likely to use completed, fully developed words or parts of speech, the Eskimo creates new combinations invented especially for the purpose to meet the challenge of each and every situation. Concerning the formation of words, the Eskimo is constantly in statu nascendi ... words are born on his tongue under the impact of the moment [I suspect animals do this with their "calls"]. Simple conversations employ 10,000 to 15,000 particles. Speech is poetry and poetry is common - it is not the exclusive possession of specially gifted and separately trained individuals." Farewell to Reason p105
The physical is just the stage, but the spiritual is the understanding, the intuitive, the realization of the repetitive miracle of Nature, the reprocessing, the rebirth. Those minds of antiquity realized all this and more. The only thing our endemically pathological postmodern civilization can conjure through science is some antiquated and quaint 19th century materialistic notion that we fear non-existence and that religion is the opium of the people. However, there's nothing comforting or assuaging about the unknown. It is the self-proclaimed master elite with a Big Bang desperation for an origin and an end of space and time that are seeking validation - comfort in the fact that they can know some unified experience of the universe that is currently lacking in their own existence - or that all those academic and educational loans add up to something claimed to be theoretical significant physics, instead of something simply known as the school of Peripatetic conjecturing (a.k.a., intellectual wankers, a.k.a., idiot savants).
The world is going around them now (what goes around comes around). There it is displayed in the talk by Rupert Sheldrake. Orthodox science is quickly becoming (has become ? The word on the street ?) a laughing stock. Farewell to Reason had me laughing out loud a few times at the ludicrous conceits that have been created by promoters of abstracted science. A "science delusion".
Exploration and discovery without honest investigation of "extraordinary" results leads to a Double Bind (Bateson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind ) that creates loss of hope and depression. No more Double Binds !

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Sparky » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:19 am

-it pertains to memory in humankind from past mass traumatic events. One focus is on the idea that reincarnation was almost universally a valid acceptance in many cultures around the world, until the anomaly of rejecting it that came from the Early Church arising out of Rome. If the Gnostics were not genocided by Rome, we might have seen such a common notion as reincarnation based off the observations of Nature
This is what I was talking about, a probably fallacious conclusion, based upon life experiences and ignorance of other possibilities.

Of course it all depends on how reincarnation is defined as. An entity may return from a previous life and remember parts of it, but there may also be alternative explanations for such memories. Observing nature gives us clues that matter cycles through life at the molecular and atomic level. This information may have been corrupted into "reincarnation", with the help of other phenomenon that seemed to support that hypothesis.

There appears to be a mental/emotional connectivity between life forms, which has been ascribed to various mechanisms, but that is an area that is very difficult to gather reliable data on and is even more difficult to reach a reliable conclusion about. Conclusions reached are formed from one's life experiences, which most probably are based upon ignorance and misunderstanding, if not outright dogmatic superstition.

BTW, Victory Zammit strikes me as one of the more cleaver "evangelists of christ" who presents his ideology in a deceptive, soft sell, with pseudo logic, hasty conclusions, questionable experimental conclusions, and appeals to authorities, all manipulations, leading to the christian agenda. He does not appear to be as open minded as he would have us believe.... just my take.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Aristarchus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:58 pm

Sparky wrote:This is what I was talking about, a probably fallacious conclusion, based upon life experiences and ignorance of other possibilities.
I do not wish to delve into didactic debate on this issue that will only serve to deflect and distract from the premise of the discourse. The thread for this TB forum board is titled: The Future of Science and the topic (viz) , The Science Delusion, Rupert@Groningen University April 2012.

The premise of my statement centers on my current research and writing, as stated in my previous post. The concept of reincarnation was rather ubiquitous, but by no means absolute during antiquity, but it certainly was not just an Eastern spiritual concept. The perception of reincarnation was shared among the likes of the Druids, and arguably the Egyptians. In fact, Julius Caesar complained that the Celts were fearless and indefatigable an opponent because of the idea that "that souls do not become extinct, but pass after death from one body to another."

Just as we see from the work of Velikovsky and then later Talbott & Thornhill, the myths of the ancient world appear universal in their descriptions of what was going on in the ancient skies, leading one to believe that these myths serve as observation to a degree. Thus, for me, in an unusual set of coincidences, the concept of this widespread acceptance and understanding pertaining to reincarnation during antiquity intrigues me. I'm currently fleshing out this concept, but it is not a topic to discuss on this board.
An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Aristarchus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:06 pm

Phorce,

Your previous post will take me some time to digest. It appears useful for the discussion as it relates to the scientific paradigms and weltanschauung that tend to have the markings of being intransigent in the "Orthodox" academically acceptable consensus.

Julian Braggins,

Thank you for your response. You might have heard of the following researcher:

Welcome to the world of science and spirit

Here, Dr. Gary Schwartz takes on the pseudo-skeptic, James Randi:

http://www.dailygrail.com/Guest-Article ... y-Schwartz
An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Phorce » Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:38 am

Actually Sheldrakes rap is remarkably similar to Part III: A Voyage to Laputa in Gulliver's Travels.
While there, he tours the country as the guest of a low-ranking courtier and sees the ruin brought about by blind pursuit of science without practical results, in a satire on bureaucracy and the Royal Society and its experiments. At The Grand Academy of Lagado great resources and manpower are employed on researching completely preposterous and unnecessary schemes such as extracting sunbeams from cucumbers, softening marble for use in pillows, learning how to mix paint by smell, and uncovering political conspiracies by examining the excrement of suspicious persons
Sound familiar. Anyone ?
Exploration and discovery without honest investigation of "extraordinary" results leads to a Double Bind (Bateson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind ) that creates loss of hope and depression. No more Double Binds !

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Re: Science Delusion, Rupert @ Groningen University April 20

Post by Lloyd » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:09 pm

http://MilesMathis.com
I plan to send the following to Mathis shortly.

I just checked out your new articles for the past couple of months and they're very interesting to me as usual. The discussion of Sheldrake is what I want to comment on for now and I think I'll post this somewhere online. I agree with your thoughts on his research to a large extent. You said you only lately heard of it. I read his first book in the early 80s. My copy was printed in 1981, but the first edition seems to have been in 1976. Sheldrake is scheduled to speak at the next Electric Universe conference in January, I think, in Albuquerque. Both Talbott and Thornhill seem to be fairly interested in his ideas. Thornhill seems to think his morphic fields may be something like electric fields and explain resonance etc.

In the book Sheldrake explained why he thinks there must be some sort of form generating field for all matter. I think he claimed that scientists who first grew various crystals recorded longer times for their growth than found in later experiments with the same crystals. Similarly, the first studies of rats learning to navigate mazes recorded longer times than later experiments with different rats. That's a small part of his explanation. Then, in section 5.4, "The influence of the past", he suggests that morphic resonance is non-energetic and morphogenetic fields are neither mass nor energy. He adopts "the assumption that morphic resonance is ... unattenuated by time and space ... as a provisional working hypothesis ... also ... that morphic resonance takes place only from the past; that only morphic units which have already actually existed are able to exert a morphic influence in the present. ... The morphic influence of a past system might become present to a subsequent similar system by passing 'beyond' space-time and then 're-entering' wherever and whenever a similar pattern of vibration appeared. Or it might be connected through other 'dimensions'." Etc.

At age 19 in late 1968 I experienced an emotional crisis that led me to question everything I thought I knew from science. I was taking first-year college physics at the time. After some thought I concluded that consciousness is primary reality and everything else is known only through consciousness. In recent years it occurred to me that it seems that consciousness is all that can exist, aside from caring and will, which seem "more primary" than consciousness. This doesn't mean physical reality doesn't exist, but that it exists as consciousness, instead of as something "foreign". This means photons, and matter made from them, are something like units of consciousness. Space and time would be aspects of consciousness as well. At the end of his section 1.6 Sheldrake said "the attempt to account for mental activity in terms of physical science involves a seemingly inevitable circularity, because science itself depends on mental activity", which thought Schoppenhauer also apparently expressed in 1883. He added, "since physics presupposes the minds of observers, these minds and their properties cannot be explained in terms of physics." So, I find a lot of things in his first(?) book agreeable. But I agree that his experiments since then seem largely trivial and confused. And I agree about his mysticism and him likely being a puppet of major power abusers, as I call them, though he may not know it.

In my 20s I experienced numerous precognitive dreams. The most impressive dream occurred soon after I thought I shot a marten by Grandma's birdhouse. I thought it was a starling at first, but just as I pulled the trigger, I noticed it was a marten. But I blinked as I shot, so I didn't actually see the marten get hit and fall. Instead, all I saw was it was there by the birdhouse, I shot at it and blinked, and then it had disappeared when my eyes opened immediately after shooting. So I was concerned that I shot it. I looked for it on the ground, but didn't find it. I thought I wounded it and that it may have hobbled away and died. In the dream Grandma was behind the garden fence reassuring me that I had not hit the marten and that there were now one or more pairs nesting in the birdhouse nearby. About 2 or 3 days later that exact event occurred. So it appeared to me that reality is somewhat different from what is supposed by physics. Your idea about the charge field, or photon field, being the source of paranormal events seems plausible, but I don't think it can easily account for precognition.

Some paranormal investigators use various equipment to help them detect "spirits", or unseen intelligences etc. Temperature sensors sometimes detect a huge drop in temperature or sometimes a rise in temperature where a spirit seems to be. Voices are often recorded. Hazy pictures are often taken, sometimes of just a small spherical shape that moves, sometimes a human or humanoid shape appears. So it appears that spirits may actually exist. If you have any ideas to share on that, I'd be interested to hear them, if you like. And, if so, please let me know if you want your reply private or if you don't care.

By the way, since you are aware of the existence of major power abuse, which may be largely responsible for the great decline in science since at least the late 1800s, I think one thing Sheldrake's theory may be good for is finding promising chreodes (developmental pathways) that may end major power abuse. Power abuse is an addiction, so other known methods of successful addiction treatment, such as treatment for drug and alcohol addiction, may prove useful to treat greed, or power abuse.

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