Pulsar orbits sun-like star with no apparent explanation.

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Pulsar orbits sun-like star with no apparent explanation.

Post by junglelord » Fri May 16, 2008 5:42 pm

I can only imagine how hard it must be to toe the party line and keep coming up with catch phrases like, "no apparent explanation", or "We have to come up with some new scenarios to explain this weird pair." While at the same time claiming to be the authority on these things....
:?
if they were correct, with their fairy tale model, then they only understand 6% of the universe and the rest they know nothing about, that means they are clueless on 94% of everything, I would have to believe that is self evident.
:lol: ;) :D
Weird stellar pair puzzles scientists
Pulsar spins around star with no apparent explanation.
Provided by National Radio Astronomy Observatory
May 15, 2008
Astronomers have discovered a speedy spinning pulsar in an elongated orbit around an apparent Sun-like star, a combination never seen before, and one that has them puzzled about how the strange system developed.

"Our ideas about how the fastest-spinning pulsars are produced do not predict either the kind of orbit or the type of companion star this one has," said David Champion of the Australia Telescope National Facility. "We have to come up with some new scenarios to explain this weird pair."

Astronomers first detected the pulsar, called J1903+0327, as part of a long-term survey using the National Science Foundation's Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico. They made the discovery in 2006 doing data analysis at McGill University, where Champion worked at the time. They followed up the discovery with detailed studies using the Arecibo telescope, the NSF's Robert C. Byrd Green Bank Telescope (GBT) in West Virginia, the Westerbork radio telescope in the Netherlands, and the Gemini North optical telescope in Hawaii.

The pulsar, a city-sized superdense stellar corpse left over after a massive star exploded as a supernova, is spinning on its axis 465 times every second. Nearly 21,000 light-years from Earth, it is in a highly-elongated orbit that takes it around its companion star once every 95 days. An infrared image made with the Gemini North telescope in Hawaii shows a Sun-like star at the pulsar's position. If this is an orbital companion to the pulsar, it is unlike any companions of other rapidly rotating pulsars. The pulsar, a neutron star, also is unusually massive for its type.

"This combination of properties is unprecedented. Not only does it require us to figure out how this system was produced, but the large mass may help us understand how matter behaves at extremely high densities," said Scott Ransom of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory.

Pulsars are neutron stars whose strong magnetic fields channel lighthouse-like beams of light and radio waves that whirl around as the star spins. Typical pulsars spin a few times a second, but some, like PSR J1903+0327, are much faster, rotating hundreds of times a second. They are called millisecond pulsars.

Astronomers think most millisecond pulsars are sped up by material falling onto them from a companion star. This requires the pulsar to be in a tight orbit around its companion that becomes more and more circular with time. The orbits of some millisecond pulsars are the most perfect circles in the Universe, so the elongated orbit of the new pulsar is a mystery.

"What we have found is a millisecond pulsar that is in the wrong kind of orbit around what appears to be the wrong kind of star," Champion said. "Now we have to figure out how this strange system was produced."

The scientists are considering three possibilities. The first, that the pulsar simply was born spinning quickly, seems unlikely to them. Another possibility, they say, is that the pulsar was formed in a tight group of stars known as a globular cluster, where it had a companion that spun it up. Later, a close encounter with another star in the cluster stripped it
of its companion and flung it out of the cluster. For several reasons, including the fact that they don't see a nearby cluster from which it could have come, they don't like that explanation either.

A third scenario says the pulsar may be part of a triple, not double, star system. The pulsar's 95-day orbit would be around a neutron star or white dwarf, not the Sun-like star seen in the infrared image. The Sun-like star would then be in a more-distant orbit around the pulsar and its companion.

"We've found about 50 pulsars in binary systems. We may now have found our first pulsar in a stellar triple system," Ransom said.

The international research team is busy trying to get their answers. They will study the star in the infrared image further to confirm the indications that it is similar to our Sun and that it actually is a companion to the pulsar. Additional radio observations will study the pulsar's orbit and seek to measure its motion in space.
(FMV 5-22-08: Edited thread title slightly, in line with astronomers' quandary.)
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Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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Re: Pulsar spins around star with no apparent explanation.

Post by Solar » Fri May 16, 2008 6:59 pm

hehehe..

You know, instead of the occurrence of an event contrary to their theory causing a re-evaluation of that theory they instead create "scenarios" to accommodate the anomaly. Which stacks more weirdness on top of existing weirdness. Is it me, or does "scenario" infer that 'We're just making this up as we go'?
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

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The stellar "odd couple"...

Post by MGmirkin » Fri May 16, 2008 9:53 pm

Yes, I saw this yesterday. Such a great news day... Must have forgotten to post this. Good on you Junglelord!

Here's a link back to the original:

(Weird Stellar Pair Puzzles Scientists)
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Weird ... s_999.html

I think this sums it up:
Astronomers have discovered a speedy spinning pulsar in an elongated orbit around an apparent Sun-like star, a combination never seen before, and one that has them puzzled about how the strange system developed.

"Our ideas about how the fastest-spinning pulsars are produced do not predict either the kind of orbit or the type of companion star this one has," said David Champion of the Australia Telescope National Facility. "We have to come up with some new scenarios to explain this weird pair," he added.
(Emphases mine)

To rephrase: "Neither the type of companion star nor the pulsar's orbit matches current models of pulsar evolution,"

However, according to Einstien, the most widely acclaimed scientist in current recollection: "if the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts!" [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

Or there's overtly cynical version: "if the stars don't fit, you must acquit!"

Much as I hate to say it, that is the sorry state of affairs that Einstein and his intellectual heirs have left science in.

Cheers,
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Astronomers Baffled by Bizarre Star

Post by MGmirkin » Sat May 17, 2008 7:21 pm

It only gets better!

(Astronomers Baffled by Bizarre Star)
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/astronomer ... 3609990002
(May 16) - Astronomers are baffled after finding an exotic type of star called a pulsar apparently locked in an elongated orbit around a star much like the sun -- an arrangement defying what had been known about such objects.

[...]

"The big question is -- how in the heck did this thing form, because it doesn't follow our standard models of how these things form," astronomer Scott Ransom of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Charlottesville, Virginia, said in a telephone interview on Thursday.

[...]

"The reason why we're so excited about this is the impact it might have on our understanding of where the pulsars that we look at are coming from," David Champion, an astronomer at Canada's McGill University, told SPACE.com. "We've never seen anything like this before."

Until now, all of the ones found orbiting with another star have been doing so with a white dwarf, another type of dying star. In each case, they shared a perfectly circular orbit. But this one has a very elongated orbit around a star similar in size and composition to our sun.

"What we have found is a millisecond pulsar that is in the wrong kind of orbit around what appears to be the wrong kind of star," astronomer David Champion of the Australia Telescope National Facility said in a statement. "Now we have to figure out how this strange system was produced."

[...]

Pulsars are a rare type of neutron star whose strong magnetic fields channel lighthouse-like beams of light and radio waves that whirl around as the star spins.

[...]

"If you were to ask any astronomer if we would have found a system like this, they would have said no. So this is a very big surprise," Ransom said.

The scientists, writing in the journal Science, speculate a third star -- perhaps a neutron star or white dwarf -- might be orbiting with the other two. Scientists know of about 100 pulsars in two-star, or binary, systems, and this might be the first in a triple-star system, Ransom said.
The last bit was pure and rampant speculation & a prior bit probably should have read:
Pulsars are [assumed to be] a rare type of neutron star whose strong magnetic fields channel lighthouse-like beams of light and radio waves that whirl around as the star spins. However, alternate hypotheses have not yet apparently been seriously entertained (probably on account of tunnel vision).
([Emphasis] mine)

Do you get the feeling that the sky is constantly falling around the heads of astronomers? Can't go a week without another bizarre, unexplainable event that doesn't conform to their Standard Models, and has 'em all baffled / starry-eyed (pun intended).

~Michael Gmirkin
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Re: Pulsar spins around star with no apparent explanation.

Post by junglelord » Sat May 17, 2008 7:49 pm

Feynman said that classical mechanics was dead. I say the Standard Model is dead. Carver Mead shows that QM is dead. Chicken Little the sky is falling!
:o
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Chicken Little, Falsifiability and the Standard Model...

Post by MGmirkin » Sat May 17, 2008 8:19 pm

Wise chicken once say:
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
~Chicken Little
The latest anomalies appear to unequivocally refute the Standard Model of stellar evolution (based upon statements by astronomers to that effect)...

(Weird Stellar Pair Puzzles Scientists)
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Weird ... s_999.html
The former article wrote:Astronomers have discovered a speedy spinning pulsar in an elongated orbit around an apparent Sun-like star, a combination never seen before, and one that has them puzzled about how the strange system developed.

"Our ideas about how the fastest-spinning pulsars are produced do not predict either the kind of orbit or the type of companion star this one has," said David Champion of the Australia Telescope National Facility. "We have to come up with some new scenarios to explain this weird pair," he added.
(Emphases mine)

(Astronomers Baffled by Bizarre Star)
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/astronomer ... 3609990002
The latter article wrote:"The big question is -- how in the heck did this thing form, because it doesn't follow our standard models of how these things form," astronomer Scott Ransom of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Charlottesville, Virginia, said in a telephone interview on Thursday.

[...]

"If you were to ask any astronomer if we would have found a system like this, they would have said no. So this is a very big surprise," Ransom said.
(Emphases mine)

To sum up the above statements:
  • A pulsar orbiting a sun-like star has never been seen before.
  • The elongated orbit of the pulsar was not predicted based upon assumptions derived from the Standard Model.
  • A pulsar orbiting a sun-like star was not a combination predicted based upon assumptions derived from the standard model.
  • The pulsar / sun-like star pairing does not follow the current line of thinking on stellar evolution based upon assumptions derived from the Standard Model.
  • A pulsar orbiting a sun-like star would have been excluded as a possibility by astronomers employing assumptions based upon the Standard Model.
  • Astronomers are puzzled by this development, for the reasons listed in the prior line items.
  • Scientists are now grasping at straws in an attempt to explain this most unexpected pairing and orbital geometry (however, those straws are already employed elsewhere in breaking a most unfortunate camel's back).
One wonders whether Karl Popper's "falsifiability" is still honored within the sciences, or whether real science is dying?

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Additional articles...

Post by MGmirkin » Sat May 17, 2008 10:00 pm

Was looking up an artist's representation of the pulsar (didn't find it) but ran across the following additional articles instead:

(Star J1903+0327 has boffins in spin)
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 62,00.html

(Astronomers in a Spin About Mystery Pulsar)
http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/co ... 2008/516/1

(Bizarre Star Gets Stranger)
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... ulsar.html

(Pulsar puzzle stumps astronomers)
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 246802.htm

(Eccentric pulsar could be part of a threesome; requires login, but is a free site to join, great articles, I might add!)
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/34207

(Slow period upsets pulsar theories; not related to the original story, but still interesting)
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2980

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Re: Pulsar spins around star with no apparent explanation.

Post by MGmirkin » Wed May 21, 2008 5:43 pm

(Strange Spinning Star Stumps Astronomers)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 094407.htm
The scientists are considering three possibilities. The first, that the pulsar simply was born spinning quickly, seems unlikely to them. Another possibility, they say, is that the pulsar was formed in a tight group of stars known as a globular cluster, where it had a companion that spun it up. Later, a close encounter with another star in the cluster stripped it of its companion and flung it out of the cluster. For several reasons, including the fact that they don't see a nearby cluster from which it could have come, they don't like that explanation either.

A third scenario says the pulsar may be part of a triple, not a double, star system. In this case, the pulsar's 95-day orbit is around a neutron star or white dwarf, not the Sun-like star seen in the infrared image. The Sun-like star would then be in a more-distant orbit around the pulsar and its close companion.

"We've found about 50 pulsars in binary systems. We may now have found our first pulsar in a stellar triple system," Ransom said.
So, what happens if a miraculous third body doesn't appear to save the day?

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Prior article in which pulsar theory may have been DOA...

Post by MGmirkin » Wed May 21, 2008 6:44 pm

("Undead" Star Torpedoes Current Theories; Aug 26, 1999)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/19 ... 183711.htm
Using CSIRO data a West Australian PhD student has found a star that is not supposed to exist.

[...]

The new pulsar, called PSR J2144-3933, spins only once every eight seconds. "This is supposed to be way too slow," explains Mr Young.

[...]

"The theory says pulsars that spin slower than once every few seconds don't have the energy to put out pulses - their heartbeat stops and they die. This pulsar is on the slab, so to speak, but its heart is still beating. By rights it should be a corpse."

[...]

"I was looking for missing pulses, points at which the pulsar skips a beat. At first glance it seemed that this pulsar was missing two beats out of three. Then it became clear that it was really only beating a third as fast as we'd thought."

"This is a bit of a problem for the theories," says CSIRO's Dr Dick Manchester, co-leader of many pulsar searches with the Parkes telescope.

"For almost thirty years we've thought that pulsar beams are powered by an exotic process that makes matter and anti-matter. The theory also says that this pulsar spins too slowly for that process to occur - that it shouldn't be putting out radio waves. But it is."

[...]

"Perhaps the matter and anti-matter process is going on, but it can happen at lower spin rates than we thought. Or perhaps the pulses are powered by something else. Whatever the case, the theory needs a rethink."
So, it seems like things have "not been well" in the house of astronomy for many years. A few too many things "not predicted" or rather things "excluded" but found anyway... How many more must be found, swept under the rug and forgotten?

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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ACCRETION DISC ANYONE?

Post by FS3 » Thu May 22, 2008 9:23 am

Some food for thoughts: If you consider that ancient model of star systems "being born mechanically out of an accretion disk" how would one explain those paths (and different directions of rotations) in that binary system?

:o

Image

:mrgreen:

I am expecting NO honest answers on that one...
FS3

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Death Spiral for Accretion Theory...

Post by MGmirkin » Thu May 22, 2008 11:45 am

FS3 wrote:Some food for thoughts: If you consider that ancient model of star systems "being born mechanically out of an accretion disk" how would one explain those paths (and different directions of rotations) in that binary system?

I am expecting NO honest answers on that one...
FS3
Not to mention the fact that models still can't make accretion properly "accrete" to form solar systems like ours.

(Death Spiral: Why Theorists Can't Make Solar Systems )
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... giant.html

The models simply don't appear to work!

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Re: Pulsar spins around star with no apparent explanation.

Post by junglelord » Thu May 22, 2008 12:05 pm

I have to admit the fourm is well represented by your efforts, I am impressed the way we all have our own talents, how that translates into good discussion on every topic and thread. Your tenacious with your relentless logic, calling a spade a spade, kinda makes the press release paradigm "surprised again" look really full of holes. Maybe that type of logic will prevail at the next conference on the dilemma in cosmology. Your work would be well represented as a talk.
8-)
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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Re: Calling it like we see it & conference.

Post by MGmirkin » Thu May 22, 2008 12:35 pm

junglelord wrote:I have to admit the forum is well represented by your efforts, I am impressed the way we all have our own talents, how that translates into good discussion on every topic and thread. Your tenacious with your relentless logic, calling a spade a spade, kinda makes the press release paradigm "surprised again" look really full of holes. Maybe that type of logic will prevail at the next conference on the dilemma in cosmology. Your work would be well represented as a talk.
8-)
To which You are you referring? ;) Didn't see a quote. I'm guessing ya' meant FS3 or me (or both?)...

It's tempting to cobble something together for the conference (I assume you meant the SECOND CRISIS IN COSMOLOGY CONFERENCE). Though I'd feel far outclassed in a room with people who would no doubt be academic researchers, and people more specifically trained in the field of plasma and/or astrophysics, astronomy, etc. For my part, I feel like I've only scratched the surface of what's out there. Though, I also feel like I've done enough reading to have seen far too many "surprised looks on astronomers' faces," metaphorically speaking.

I really wish I could get a new site up and running on Drupal to catalog and archive all the "amazing" / "surprising" stories out there and make them searchable. It's a project I really would like to get running at some point, as I'm sure it would eventually turn into a monumental resource. Just need more free time, a little funding, and to hunker down in a basement for a couple months figuring out how to install, configure and maintain Drupal and its various extensions / plug-ins.

Anywho... Yeah, good times!
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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Re: Pulsar orbits sun-like star with no apparent explanation.

Post by MGmirkin » Thu May 22, 2008 1:04 pm

junglelord wrote:If they were correct, with their fairy tale model, then they only understand 6% of the universe and the rest they know nothing about. That means they are clueless on 94% of everything. I would have to believe that is self evident.
:lol: ;)
You don't by chance mean one of these graphs, do you?
Basic pie chart of astronomers' conception of universal composition.
Basic pie chart of astronomers' conception of universal composition.
More detailed graphical pie charge of astronomers' conception of universal composition.
More detailed graphical pie charge of astronomers' conception of universal composition.
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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Re: Pulsar orbits sun-like star with no apparent explanation.

Post by junglelord » Thu May 22, 2008 2:07 pm

Oh, well they only know 4%, I gave them 2% credit....they could use all the help and free credits they can get....talk about a bell curve...
:lol:

Yes Michael, I was refering to you. and that conference. Do not be intimidated, it would make sense to hear a talk from a "amature"....I use that term lightly in your case as I imagine your free thinking is way too advanced for the dogma of institutions. Your very hard ball, and its about time someone was. Your calling a spade a spade, over and over, really sinks in after a while. After a while, one can only sit back and be entertained and enlightened by your efforts.
8-)

Your work is a perfect example of how the whole thing is classical mess. I swear to god, the less education we have, the better off we have as a free mind. Self education and self reflection, vs teaching and institutions, is a very different learning and knowledge relationship, vs information and brainwashing.
:ugeek:

I am simple guy, who thinks in basics, somehow that seems to be deep and important.....I am just a big kid that loves stars and science, another amature.
;)
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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