Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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tholden
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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Fri Apr 01, 2011 6:28 pm

Shrike wrote: That's the correct term 'produce' it is not in the actual image it is produced by software algorithms.
For whatever it's worth, software algorithms are what I've been doing for a living since about 1972, including graphics applications and steganalysis which involves jpeg code. It is my professional opinion that no software application could produce an image like this one:

Image

unless it was specifically programmed to do so. It is inconceivable to me that any application or algorithm could produce that image as an artifact of doing something else unrelated.

The same thing is true of any number of images which have been coming back from Mars since 1998, and many of those are available in hires tif images, the lower right corner of NASA PIA-04995 for instance:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/pia04995

The images at Cydonia have even been subjected to fractal analysis tests which show them to be unmistakably artificial and still the denial goes on Tom Van Flandern (former director of Naval Observatory) noted:

http://www.metaresearch.org/solar%20sys ... /proof.asp
For example, the artificiality hypothesis predicts that an image intended to portray a humanoid face should have more than the primary facial features (eyes, nose, mouth) seen in the Viking images. At higher resolution, we ought to see secondary facial features such as eyebrows, pupils, nostrils, and lips, for which the resolution of the original Viking images was insufficient. The presence of such features in the MGS images would be significant new indicators of artificiality. Their existence by chance is highly improbable. And the prediction of their existence by the artificiality hypothesis is completely a priori.

By contrast, the natural-origin hypothesis predicts that the “Face” will look more fractal (e.g., more natural) at higher resolution. Any feature that resembled secondary facial features could do so only by chance, and would be expected to have poor correspondence with the expected size, shape, location, and orientation of real secondary facial features. Any such chance feature might also be expected to be part of a background containing many similar chance features.

In Figure 2, it is possible to see details in the image (once the right correspondence to the Viking image is recognized) that might have been intended to portray each secondary facial feature – eyebrow, pupil, nostrils, and lips. These are more plainly visible in higher-magnification views with brightness and contrast adjusted for each area because of the limited contrast in the image. Such views may be inspected at <http://metaresearch.org> in the Cydonia section. Detailed study with image processing software shows that these secondary facial features exist where expected by the artificiality hypothesis, but nowhere else on the mesa. This rules out a background of many similar features from which we might pick out just ones that fulfill our expectations. Moreover, each feature is present at the expected location, having the expected size, shape, and orientation. The odds are against any of these features arising by chance, and against each feature having any of the four listed characteristics. Each of these probabilities has been carefully and conservatively estimated in a fuller treatment of this topic. [1] The combined odds against all of these features being present and having all expected characteristics to the degree actually present, when taken together with the absence of similar features in the background, exceed a thousand billion billion to one (1021 to 1).

Strictly speaking, science does not prove physical hypotheses; it disproves them. In that sense, all we have done, technically, is rule out the natural origin hypothesis at the cited odds. However, unless we can formulate some other hypothesis competing with artificiality that makes similar a priori predictions, we are compelled to accept artificiality as the most reasonable explanation consistent with the a priori principle of scientific method.

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by davesmith_au » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:20 pm

Ted your enthusiasm is admirable, though I think in this instance misguided, and I don't mean to be derogatory by any means. Quite simply, we are now on the third page of posts essentially about one image. The original ESA image is NOT a "real" image in the true sense of the word. No spacecraft hovered over Hale Crater and took a picture 'looking' West to produce this image. Instead, it is a manufactured perspective image derived from data taken from above 'looking' straight down, as it were, with both optical and radar instruments. Such data is then 'juggled' to come up with these perspective images. They look very impressive, and in some ways are quite accurate, but the amount of jostling of data by algorithms to produce it is bound to give some false impressions as well. Unless you can find a vertical down image of the crater in which there appear rectangular 'building tops' as it were, the whole discussion is moot.

Cheers, Dave.
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tholden
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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:21 pm

davesmith_au wrote: The original ESA image is NOT a "real" image in the true sense of the word.


Riddle me this... If this image is so innocuous, why did ESA personnel go to the trouble to hide these details from the public by playing the games which they did with the brightness and contrast of the image?

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by StevenJay » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:17 am

tholden wrote:Riddle me this... If this image is so innocuous, why did ESA personnel go to the trouble to hide these details from the public by playing the games which they did with the brightness and contrast of the image?
That's pure assumption on your part, Ted. As Dave pointed out, this isn't an actual photograph per se. There are no brightness/contrast games being played here. It's simply an imperfect algorithmic c-o-n-s-t-r-u-c-t created for the sole purpose of visualizing an alien terrain in a manner in which humans are used to seeing things. It's also been pointed out that it was never intended to be used for the sort of critical "analysis" you and others have subjected it to; which is almost the same as running a scientific analysis on an artist's rendering.
It's all about perception.

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:01 pm

StevenJay wrote:There are no brightness/contrast games being played here.
Image

de Nile...

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:58 am


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StevenJay
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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by StevenJay » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:18 am

Both you and J.P. Skipper seem to have a desperate need for there to be signs of earth-like civilization in these blatantly pixelized images. In this case, the pixel resolution appears to have combined with the "rills" in the image and created a simple moire pattern effect, IMO.

All of that aside, what I still need to know is, how and why would there be thousands of pristine, sharply rectangular buildings, all set into perfect rows scattered across a basically airless planet, which had been rendered that way due to fairly "recent" and almost complete cataclysmic destruction?? Or has Mars been that way for "billions of years," and its lack of habitable atmosphere is just another NASA/ESA lie?

- de Nile
It's all about perception.

tholden
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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:10 pm

One that's easy to see:

http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/m07_m12 ... 200441.gif

Image


Don't ask me what it is, all I know is that it does not belong on a lifeless planet.

tholden
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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:33 pm

More...

Image

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by Lloyd » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:35 am

Ted said: For whatever it's worth, software algorithms are what I've been doing for a living since about 1972, including graphics applications and steganalysis which involves jpeg code. It is my professional opinion that no software application could produce an image like this one: ... unless it was specifically programmed to do so. It is inconceivable to me that any application or algorithm could produce that image as an artifact of doing something else unrelated.
* Then why don't you show us various similar images of scenes on Earth, both natural and artificial, with the same resolution, and using the same algorithms as for the Mars images?

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:16 pm

Lloyd wrote:
Ted said: For whatever it's worth, software algorithms are what I've been doing for a living since about 1972, including graphics applications and steganalysis which involves jpeg code. It is my professional opinion that no software application could produce an image like this one: ... unless it was specifically programmed to do so. It is inconceivable to me that any application or algorithm could produce that image as an artifact of doing something else unrelated.
* Then why don't you show us various similar images of scenes on Earth, both natural and artificial, with the same resolution, and using the same algorithms as for the Mars images?
The only "algorithms" in question are tif, pgf, an jpeg image compression and image tampering (by NASA feebs) involving adjustment of brightness and/or contrast, smudging (e.g. the smudge function on Gimp) and a couple of other things like that. Other than that some of the images on thar Mars anomaly website actually are near the limits of resolution, while others clearly are not.

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:19 pm

Here's another one:

Image

Most of these images check out in the sense that you can easily get to to the NASA originals on NASA's website and check the original images, this one doesn't check. At least it did check several years ago the first time I ever checked it out, but NASA people have in the meantime totally obliterated the images so that what is now purported to be this image is just a field of sand.

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by webolife » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:55 pm

This morning I mentioned something about cloud shapes to my 6th graders, and one boy looked out the classroom window and said: "Hey that cloud looks like a dragon!" When I began to redirect him he said, "It really does look like a dragon" <pointing to it> I took a breath a glanced out the window, and by gum he was right... the clouds really did look like dragon.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by tholden » Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:27 pm

For the benefit of any who might not have kept up, a hires snapshot of that Face megalith in the Mars/Cydonia region:

Image

Nature of course does not do straight lines or Bezier curves on a three-mile scale.

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Re: Mars Hale Crater Looking West

Post by Influx » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:30 pm

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&i ... 34976&z=16

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&i ... 34976&z=16

http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&i ... 33023&z=16

All the links I provided demonstrate the same king of artifacts, while using newer technology then that on Mars and at the same time being far more closer to earth.
Last edited by Influx on Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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