Mars in Miniature

[MGmirkin]

(Mars in Miniature; Apr 25, 2008)

Mars exhibits many formations whose shapes are independent of size. Could the scalar nature of electrical discharges be the reason?

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[heretic5]

http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opport ... 91L5M1.JPG linked to from the TPOD for 2008-04-25, offers a photo of what looks like water at the ends of the two middle "planks" of rock. If you look closely, you can see a few "blueberries" under the surface.

[Steve Smith]

Heretic means one who choses his own way.

Actually it isn't water, it's finely divided dust. One of the signs that electric currents blasted their way through the Matian surface strata is the ultra-fine dust, blueberries and glassified dunes. Electric currents "seize" the rock and cause it to tear itself apart from electrodynamic forces and electrostatic repulsion. Because most of the fine dust is iron oxide, it acts like a fluid in the presence of a strong magnetic field, so "rivers" of hematite probably flowed over the surface. That's probably why the cracks in the silicon dioxide "pavement" are filled with hematite dust.

[heretic5]

Hello Steve:)

Although I agree that there are "rivers" of dust, as you mention, my difficulty with the photo is that the space between the cracks seems to be nearly filled with something which seems to have the same transparency as water, or very clear ice. So "blueberries" can be seen above and below the surface.

My experience with terrestrial dust is that it is never as tranparent as water or ice. So I am a loss to suggest what the "bluberries" in the cracks might be submerged in, other than water or very clear ice. Wait a second, how about ammonia dissolved in water? No? Alright, if it's not water, not clear ice, not ammonia in water, not dust; then what is in the cracks which is sufficiently transparent that submerged "blueberries" can be seen below the surface? The mention of any and all other possibilities would be welcome.

[Steve Smith]

There is no surface water on Mars.

[heretic5]

Hello Steve:)

If it is not water, then might it be a hydrocarbon?

[Steve Smith]

You mean like a liquid CFC?

An important consideration that is being missed is that the atmospheric pressure on Mars is so low it would be like standing on the summit of a mountain six times taller than Mt. Everest -- it is 1/800 that of Earth. Any liquids, no matter their molecular density, would dissipate immediately.

What your eyes are interpreting as objects beneath the surface of a liquid is an illusion.

[heretic5]

Hello Steve:)

That illusions exist is not to be denied. That this might be one is certainly possible.

However that might be, this photo is justification for a robot to go and see. Hm. Wait, that's where we got the photo. It seems it would have been possible to have commanded the robot to put its instrument arm down into the crevice. If there were to have been a liquid in the crevice, it would have been optically detected by the lower part of the arm not being straight with the upper part.

But nobody thought to do that. Too late now. We are beginning to attempt the transition from a Type Zero civilization to a Type One; and it's looking bleak for us, IMO.

[MGmirkin]

There does seem, however, to be liquid something on Mars. I think. Unfortunately, the HiRISE image link was lost when "Thunderbolts Forum 1.0" crashed and burned. I will have to check whether I retrieved that particular thread. But there was definitely something in one of the images that appeared to have been a liquid of some kind following existing topography. I assume it was either subliming CO2 or some other melting "frost" layer (be it ammonia or something else; I don't know)...

I'll see if I can track it down again... Granted, I don't believe it was in the region with the "blueberries." Probably was near one or the other pole.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin

[heretic5]

There does seem, however, to be liquid something on Mars. I think. Unfortunately, the HiRISE image link was lost when "Thunderbolts Forum 1.0" crashed and burned. I will have to check whether I retrieved that particular thread. But there was definitely something in one of the images that appeared to have been a liquid of some kind following existing topography. I assume it was either subliming CO2 or some other melting "frost" layer (be it ammonia or something else; I don't know)...

I'll see if I can track it down again... Granted, I don't believe it was in the regionwith the "blueberries." Probably wasnear one or the other pole.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin

Hello Michael:)

Here another "something".
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/ ... B313R1.jpg

[MGmirkin]

There does seem, however, to be liquid something on Mars. I think. Unfortunately, the HiRISE image link was lost when "Thunderbolts Forum 1.0" crashed and burned. I will have to check whether I retrieved that particular thread. But there was definitely something in one of the images that appeared to have been a liquid of some kind following existing topography. I assume it was either subliming CO2 or some other melting "frost" layer (be it ammonia or something else; I don't know)...

I'll see if I can track it down again... Granted, I don't believe it was in the region with the "blueberries." Probably was near one or the other pole.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin

Now that I'm at home, I can confirm that the "Something Liquid on Mars" thread was one of the ones I managed to save from Google's cache.

Here's the relevant quote with the image(s) I was referring to as far as liquids:

So, okay, was browsing HiRISE just now and ran across this image:

(HiRISE at One Year: Student Image of the Week-Seasonal Changes of South Polar Dark Dune Field)
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003609_1110

Much to my surprise, on panning and scanning in the IAS viewer, I came across this region:

(Wide shot of some of the dark spots on the south polar dunes.)


(Narrow shot of the side of a dune. Note the black circular-ish spot at the top, and the dark plume flowing down the side following the local topography. This appears to be something [finally] consistent with fluid motion! As opposed to so many features that appear to NOT follow local topography.)


So, anyway, I figured I'd point this out. Look interesting. Any ideas on what this would be? Some have speculated sublimating CO2, some have speculated water, some have speculated sub-surface water. Nobody's quite sure, it seems.

So, yeah, something liquid this way comes? Hehe. As I said, different region, different scale, but it does appear to be liquid-like in behavior. One of the first shots I've seen that actually conforms to what one might assume liquids following the contours of pre-existing terrain should look like.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin

[heretic5]

Excellent recovery. Thanks.

As for the flows, if I was in Oklahoma, I would know what it was - crude oil, maybe about the consistency of tar.

[MGmirkin]

Excellent recovery. Thanks.

As for the flows, if I was in Oklahoma, I would know what it was - crude oil, maybe about the consistency of tar.

Yeah, well, don't know if we can trust the "colors," as I figure most are false color to accentuate some feature or another...?

Other'n that...

~Michael Gmirkin