Earth - tectonics and geology

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Lloyd
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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Lloyd » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:18 pm

Earth's Interior is Cool, Not Hot
http://www.scientificexploration.org/jo ... tassos.pdf
The Least Elastic Crust, the More Elastic Mantle, and the Most Elastic Core
... [The] velocity of seismic waves ... increases progressively as depth increases and as rock continuity, rigidity, and elasticity increase.
- ... [A]ccording to the Preliminary Reference Earth Model (PREM) ... the velocity of P and S waves in the upper-most crust is about 5.8 [for P] and 3.2 km/s [for S], respectively, while at the mantle-core boundary they reach 13.7 [for P] and 7.3 km/s [for S], respectively.
- ... The linear dependence between velocity (Vp) and density (Birch’s law) actually produces a closer molecular-level material compaction with [increasing] depth, and therefore an inter-atomic electronic pressure increase effect, and of course, higher inertia-density.
- ... [The observed] increasing seismic velocity with depth completely disallows the popular ideal of increasing heat with depth.
- ... [The] higher conductivity of upper mantle olivine disappears at temperatures above 700°C, giving merit to the notion of a relatively cool to cold and also electrically conductive silicate rock mantle.
- Thus, evidence indicates that the mantle is certainly not hot at depth and becomes increasingly denser and implicitly more rigid and electrically conductive with depth. ...
- Atomic freedom to move in thermal vibratory oscillation gets shorter and shorter in wavelength, [as mantle depth increases,] due to the rising incompressibility of solid matter....
- As vibratory oscillation [decreases], the solid mantle will inevitably grow cooler with depth, a result which is consistent with seismic data showing increasing elastic moduli and wave velocities with increasing depth.

Lloyd
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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Lloyd » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:55 pm

* The article above seems to have a lot of new info about Earth's interior. I'm curious to find out if it supports or denies hollow Earth evidence, as discussed here http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 420#p37440 and in several of the following posts there.
* It does seem to support expanding Earth theory somewhat, but I don't know the details yet and don't know how much expansion would be considered likely.

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webolife
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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by webolife » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:12 pm

Not arguing for subduction here, just for clarity and understanding.
When I first learned about subduction in geology class at UW[1973], I objected on the same basis as the wooden nail and cannon ball analogy, and the prof [actually a post grad TA] replied that the resistance to subducting crust by the mantle was what drove the crustal heating that fires up the volcanic chains [eg notably the ring of fire]. It made some sense to me then, and the anti-subduction arguments I've heard here and on the expanding earth thread don't overthrow this assertion for me. Again, I have never spoken of or taught subduction without the clear language of "some geologists think that...", and it is not an essential part of my catastrophic earth history model.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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Aveo9
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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Aveo9 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:09 am

That's a very interesting read.

Scientists have observed definite discontinuities at various depths in the mantle and the core using seismic waves. If the Earth was solid and perhaps built up in stages like a hailstone or a concretion then the discontinuities would be expected. But I've never seen a clear explanation on how these discontinuities could form in a planet that slowly gets warmer and gooier as you get deeper. In my mind this could potentially provide more evidence for the electric universe and electric birth of the Earth.

But this raises several nagging questions to my mind, namely:

- How would you account for the presence of magma under volcanoes?
- How would you account for the observed movement of the crust in various directions (ie. continental drift)?
- The measurements of seismic waves also completely disallow a large hollow void (ie. hollow Earth theory) in the Earth's core, don't they?

Forgive my noobishness if the answers are obvious to people who are more familiar with the subject :P

The Japanese have designed an interesting ship with the purpose of drilling right down through the Moho and into the mantle. It's going to be an extremely interesting project to follow!
"If opposite poles attracted each other, they would be together in the middle of a magnet instead of at its ends"
-- Walter Russell

Lloyd
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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Lloyd » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:02 pm

Webo said: When I first learned about subduction in geology class at UW[1973], I objected on the same basis as the wooden nail and cannon ball analogy, and the prof [actually a post grad TA] replied that the resistance to subducting crust by the mantle was what drove the crustal heating that fires up the volcanic chains [eg notably the ring of fire]. It made some sense to me then, and the anti-subduction arguments I've heard here and on the expanding earth thread don't overthrow this assertion for me.
* Impossible subduction should not be theorized to account for real features, like volcanism. A major impact and or a sudden braking of Earth's rotation would account for the breaking of the continents and their sliding over the Moho layer. The front edges of the American and Asian plates sliding mostly horizontally on the Pacific plate from east and west would account for the frictional heating that made the ring of fire. And the article shows that electrical forces are what keep those areas hot and produce earthquakes there and at the borders of all the tectonic plates.
* In the first image below, red dots indicate past volcanic activity.
Image
* In the next image below, yellow dots indicate past earthquake epicenters.
Image

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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Lloyd » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:18 pm

Aveo said: - How would you account for the presence of magma under volcanoes?
- How would you account for the observed movement of the crust in various directions (ie. continental drift)?
- The measurements of seismic waves also completely disallow a large hollow void (ie. hollow Earth theory) in the Earth's core, don't they?
* The paper says the magma is heated by electrical forces. But I mentioned in my immediately preceding post that the continents broke apart and slid over the Moho layer, and friction built up great heat at the leading edges of the American and Asian continental plates. Electrical forces appear to keep the ring of fire and other lines of fire hot.
* Solar flares sometimes cause the Earth's rotation to slow down slightly before speeding back up to normal speed. Cardona thinks Saturn's flares in the Saturn Age slowed down Earth's rotation suddenly and almost completely, which caused the Earth's crust to slide over the Moho layer. A major impact could also have split the continents apart from the supercontinent at the same time.
* Seismic waves aren't directly detected on opposite sides of the Earth from where explosions or earthquake epicenters occur. Conventional scientists assume it's because the Earth's core is solid nickel-iron. But it could also or maybe more likely be due to a hollow center.

Doureios
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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Doureios » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:58 am

Tassos is a Greek geologist and he is one of the main supporters of the Expanding Earth Hypothesis (EEH).

In this paper he suggests an electric mechanism for the generation of the new mass needed by the EEH model (IMHO a very realistic model). This mass creation process connects nicely with the flow of electrons from the ionosphere observed before earthquakes.

I will provide you with some more links and presentations about the EEH and Tassos when i will be on my pc.

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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Doureios » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:33 am


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webolife
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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by webolife » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:39 am

Lloyd,
I'm confused. How are your continental plates sliding over oceanic plates different from "subduction" -- seem like descriptions of each other to me? In other words, you say subduction is impossible, then go on to explain a sliding over process that is nearly the definition of subduction for me. Do others share my confusion here?
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Lloyd » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:26 pm

* Subduction is largely vertical. Sliding is primarily horizontal.

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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by Lloyd » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:13 pm

Questions
Doureios, here are 7 questions about Tassos' theories. I hope you can help explain. Thanks for trying.

Q1: If earthquakes and volcanoes are produced by Earth's core expansion and electrical forces, why do they occur only in certain locations, like the ring of fire and along tectonic plate boundaries?

Q2: How do free electrons cause microcracks to form in rock?

Q3: Does ExM, excess mass, form only in planetary cores? If so, why and how?

Q4: Continents are said not to move like rafts on a conveyor belt, but, if Earth's rotation suddenly stopped, why wouldn't the crust slide over the mantle, such as at the Moho layer? Isn't the Moho layer plasma?

Q5: How certain is it that the continents have roots and what would be the difference between rock on opposite sides of the root surfaces? How would roots form?

Q6: Why would the continents have more iron than do the ocean floors? What if the ocean floors and continents are much younger than conventional science claims?

Q7: What if Earth's crust and that of Mars and many moons were formed from detritus from Saturn flares?

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nick c
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Re: Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Post by nick c » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:29 am

This thread is a combination of the following threads:

Interactive Map of Earth's Tectonic Plates

Tectonics and Earth's Interior

Discovery of Earth's inner, innermost core

The end of the lines for Geology?

Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

LK EU Geology Theory

Geodes etc

Could the earth be warming up from the inside?

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webolife
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Re: Earth - tectonics and geology

Post by webolife » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:15 pm

Lloyd wrote:Subduction is largely vertical. Sliding is primarily horizontal.
(my highlighting)

"Largely" and "primarily" indicate the possibility of an overlap of concept here. I'm curious if other detractors of subduction agree with your definition? If so, then I have been arguing in vain for all these pages [mostly on the expanding earth thread], because it matters not to me how much vertical or horizontal is involved in the concept. If "horizontal sliding over/under" is the agreed upon plate movement, then I have some basic questions about mountain formation in this view. If "vertical", then I still plead compression zone with or without the standard "subduction."
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Lloyd
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Re: Earth - tectonics and geology

Post by Lloyd » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:46 pm

I wrote: Subduction is largely vertical. Sliding is primarily horizontal.
Webo replied: "Largely" and "primarily" indicate the possibility of an overlap of concept here. I'm curious if other detractors of subduction agree with your definition? If so, then I have been arguing in vain for all these pages [mostly on the expanding earth thread], because it matters not to me how much vertical or horizontal is involved in the concept. If "horizontal sliding over/under" is the agreed upon plate movement, then I have some basic questions about mountain formation in this view. If "vertical", then I still plead compression zone with or without the standard "subduction."
* My understanding of tectonics comes mostly from Cardona [at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... =10&t=3824], Shock Dynamics [at http://newgeology.us] and Tassos material [at http://michaelnetzer.com/gu/index.php?o ... &Itemid=72, http://www.scientificexploration.org/jo ... tassos.pdf etc]. They may not all be compatible, but so far they seem to be sufficiently so.
* Shock Dynamics seems to explain best how the sliding occurred and it suggests that an impact initiated the supercontinent breakup and the sliding of the pieces over the Moho layer.
* Cardona adds that sudden braking of Earth's rotation during Saturn flares could also have initiated sliding.
* The sliding would have been largely horizontal, but the sliding pieces could have encountered slopes, like the Pacific Ocean ridge, that they may have slid over with some slight vertical motion, but still mostly horizontal.
* Cardona said the Earth would have been heated up during Saturn flares, due to falling detritus, including burning hydrocarbons, and due to friction of sliding continents.
* Shock Dynamics said friction was almost zero during most of the sliding, but friction would have been highest at the beginning of the sliding, when the impact was overcoming continental inertia, and at the end of the sliding, as the continents slowed down below a critical level, at which friction would have increased rapidly until the continental movement halted. Those points were on the leading and trailing edges of the continents, where mountains built up, with the highest ones building up at the leading edges as continents slowed down, such as the Rockies and Andes.
* So the Pacific Ring of Fire is the area where the continents built up lots of friction and heat that has still not entirely cooled down to ambient temperature, so volcanoes and earthquakes still occur there.
* The seafloor that the continents were sliding over would resemble subduction on the leading edges of those continents, but the mechanism is considerably different. I'll just quote the site to try to explain this.
Image
The giant meteorite explodes, penetrating the continental crust. ... The force pushes up low mountains, and the landmass slides away like a ship on water, fluidizing the contact layer. Behind the landmass, a surface layer of oceanic crust is melting and cooling to form the mid-ocean spreading ridge with transform faults, pulled open by the landmass.
Image
When the leading edge loses enough energy, the contact layer at the leading edge solidifies. The momentum of the landmass carries it forward like a car hitting a wall, piling up high mountains. The formerly fluidized contact layer in front (gray line) is a Benioff zone, called subduction zones in Plate Tectonics.
* The low mountains on the left would be the Appalachians and the high ones on the right the Rockies, where the subduction-like area exists.

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MattEU
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Underground River Amazon and subsurface river currents

Post by MattEU » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:16 am

Underground River Amazon has been 'discovered' flowing as a subsurface river below the normal River Amazon. The Underground River Amazon is much wider than the surface River Amazon and, some scientists suggest, the lower section of the Underground River Amazon is made up of salt water.

Image
Underground River Amazon - Rio Hamza

This is the suggested creation of the subsurface River Amazon

Image
formation of the subsurface River Amazon

What is interesting is the potential of the potential salt water flowing in the Underground River Amazon. Is this how all the water that forms the Underground River Amazon is collected? Does some or a lot of it come from within the earth itself and not reliant on the surface River Amazon? Especially the salty water.

The thing is that the 'flowing' of the subsurface River Amazon is slower than glaciers. One scientists speaking to the BBC got rather upset about the Underground River Amazon being called a river at all.
The word 'river' should be burned from the work - it's not a river whatsoever” Jorge Figueiredo Petrobras geologist
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14693637
So if its not a river then what is it? Could it be a current? A water Telluric Current?

So perhaps it is not a river in the sense they think it is, could it be part of the earths electrical circuit? Does the surface River Amazon flow along its path because the subsurface River Amazon was already flowing that way? Could this be the same for other surface larger rivers or is it just unique to the River Amazon?

Water is not meant to be found deep beneath the earths surface where rock should only be, yet it is found there in amazing quantities. The 2 deepest super deep boreholes both found unexpected amounts of water very deep down. Some of it was also salt water.

It would seem that the whole earth has layers and grids in each section, from the atmosphere to the land to the seas and underground. Which controls which? Does the upper control the lower or the lower control the upper? Is the sun in charge of our Electric Solar system or are the planets in control of the sun?

And if you wanted to design an Electrical Planet in an Electric Universe is there a better design than Planet Earth with all its salty water in the oceans, animals and even now it appears deep inside the earth creating underground circuits?

You can find and read the survey report pdf here

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