Question about the EM Spectrum

Many Internet forums have carried discussion of the Electric Universe hypothesis. Much of that discussion has added more confusion than clarity, due to common misunderstandings of the electrical principles. Here we invite participants to discuss their experiences and to summarize questions that have yet to be answered.

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JaJa
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Question about the EM Spectrum

Post by JaJa » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:33 am

I don't know if I am in the right thread asking this question - apologies if I am not.

I am looking for the most up to date regions of the EM Spectrum.

Mainstream interpretation (Wiki & NASA)

Image

The diagram shows 7 radiation types - radio, microwave, infrared visible, ultraviolet, x-ray, gamma ray.

The following diagram shows this however (mainstream GSCE Physics educational);

Image

There are only six types of radiation. Does this mean microwave (according to GCSE physics diagram) is part of infrared/radio wavelengths or is it a wavelength in its own right. I am trying to establish whether there are six primary radiation types or seven?

Any clarity would be appreciated from forum members
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Goldminer
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Re: Question about the EM Spectrum

Post by Goldminer » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:52 am

The divisions are arbitrary, just as the units chosen for measurement are arbitrary. There is some evidence that there is a natural "choice" for units of measurement: More later

Is there an upper limit to the frequency? I am not sure.
I sense a disturbance in the farce.

jjohnson
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Re: Question about the EM Spectrum

Post by jjohnson » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:07 pm

The names given to different "bands" of electromagnetic radiation are more or less arbitrary, and may vary by both name and bandwidth, depending on which user's interest is being served. For convenience I simply call it all "light" unless the discussion is centering about or specifically referring to certain regions. There aren't really different "types" of radiation in the sense that they all seem to be composed of "orthogonal (i.e. perpendicular to each other) electric and magnetic fields" which appear to propagate at the speed of light in whatever medium they find themselves in.

Your microwave oven generates "light" (which of course you cannot see) with a fairly low frequency of wave, toward the long wavelength end of the spectrum. This is similar to radar waves, which are formed in klystron tubes similar to those in microwave oven. Radio astronomers "see" across ranges of radiation at this same end of the spectrum, and they may refer to "millimeter waves".

From quantum relationships it can be shown that the greater the rate of light's vibration (its frequency) the more energy its packets of radiation carry. Visible light carries a modest amount of energy compared with ultraviolet to X-ray radiation, which is apparent from the damage that overexposure to each can cause to life forms, which mostly have developed here on Earth in an environment that is fairly well protected (by magnetosphere and atmosphere and hydrosphere) from high energy incident radiation.

In astronomy (as in other pursuits) light can be filtered by allowing a certain restricted range of bandwidths to pass through to the observer or instrument, and blocking the other, non-desired frequencies. Our atmosphere functions this way in the infrared range of the spectrum, for example, as do the large synthetic sapphire "windows" which protect infrared imaging devices on, say, aircraft. Those look "black" to our eyes, but IR passes cleanly through and an "artificial" image in light that our eyes do respond to (the visible range, sometimes called "optical") can be created, allowing us to "see" in a range of radiation which our eyes alone cannot, or to study the effects of that range and exclude unwanted light that may blur or saturate and swamp the desired range. They make "nebular filters" for telescopes which block out much ambient city light from sodium street lamps, allowing a clearer, cleaner view of faint objects such as nebulas.

Named ranges may be divided into sub-ranges, whose specific wavelengths (or frequencies, the inverse of wavelength) are usually specified by some standardization agency. Infrared is often said to be composed of "near" (nearer to the optical range), "mid" and "far" infrared. Ultraviolet (UV) has similar nomenclature.

Sometimes the term "ionizing" radiation is used, which is a gauge of its energy content, usually rated in electron-volts (eV), as to whether it can ionize this or that atom or molecule, each of which has a certain minimum energy input requirement to separate the outer or "valence" electrons from the nucleus. Generally, ionizing radiation starts in the UV band somewhere and goes up in frequency and energy per photon from there. Infrared vibrates too slowly and has too little energy to dissociate electrons from atoms so it is not ionizing radiation in most cases I can think of. Understanding this aspect of radiation is important to understanding some of the plasma physics which drives the Electric Universe. Radio waves don't ionize anything, but if they are intense enough they can sure cook you.

One simple relationship, frequency times wavelength equals the speed of light, applies at all wavelengths in any medium through which EM radiation can propagate. Light may consist of only a single frequency of vibration, as from a laser, or a tuned radio or radar transmitter. It has a single wavelength and therefore a singe frequency. Light can be very complex, such as from a star, where nearly all frequencies of light are present in varying amounts or intensities, but each "color" or wavelength has its own particular associated wavelength. The bottom line is that the shared constant is the speed of light, c, so regardless of frequency, in general all the light propagates away from the transmitter or star or source at precisely the same speed: local light speed.

For enhancing vision of very small or very distant objects, lenses are curved and have different thicknesses of glass between their outer edges so that different parts of an arriving wavefront of light from, say, IR through optical to UV) will have different lengths traveling at a slower velocity. This changes the curvature of the wavefront in order to bring it to a focus and provide a useful and faithful image, whether in a microscope or a telescope or binoculars. At much larger and smaller scales than these "mid" frequencies, other focussing techniques are required. The focusing mechanism that gathers the very short wavelength of X-ray light for the Chandra satellite telescope, among others like it, is nothing like a typical optical refracting or a reflecting telescope design. See http://www.universe.nasa.gov/xrays/Mirr ... ptics.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_optics.

Don't worry if the diagrams have wavelength increasing or decreasing from left to right - that's just whatever convention the source wants to use. (The EU prefers energy (i.e. frequency) to increase from left to right on the Hertzsprung-Russel star diagram, just the opposite of the H-R diagram displayed in every standard model physics and astronomy textbook today. Remember that if the frequency is increasing in one direction on a graph, the wavelength is decreasing, getting shorter and shorter in that direction, because their product (f x w) has to always equal a constant value, c.

To get the specific names matched to frequency bands, it's best to look up the discipline or profession you are interested in (radio astronomy, or ham radio, or radar, or X-ray, or whatever, and find what bandwidths they use and if they have names or numbers assigned to those bands of radiation. That way you know that for the ham radio enthusiast, "short-wave" radio may mean one thing, while short-wave in the Extreme Ultraviolet (EUV) might mean something more like "long-wave" to an X-ray technician who is dealing even shorter wavelengths.

Too long-winded, as usual. >sigh<

I am not sure that there are really "preferred natural units", but I'd like to see the argument. Mostly what is preferred in my world is that which relates to a life form (mine) with ten digits and a certain general length and temperature range. How and why would a base "e" logarithm ("natural log") be any more "natural" than a base 10 logarithm system, or base 2, or base pi? The definition of "natural" might be discussed first so we all understand what it is supposed to mean in this context.
Jim

Goldminer
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Re: Question about the EM Spectrum

Post by Goldminer » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:15 pm

Here is an interesting exchange between Bert Younes and Walter Babin:

W. Babin, Nov.3, 2007:
Thanks for your email. You would be astonished at how simple atomic physics becomes with the use of the imperial system. There is no question in my mind that ancient knowledge (probably antediluvian) far exceeds anything that we have yet dreamed about.

Bert Younes, Nov. 3, 2007:
The imperial system is apparently more useful than the metric system

http://www.celticnz.co.nz/Weights_Measu ... asures.htm
http://www.celticnz.co.nz/NebraSunDisk/NebraSunDisk.htm
http://wbabin.net/babin/guft.htm (dead link)

The first two sites explain that time and distance have been measured in imperial units for probably 11 thousand years.


Walter Babin uses the speed of light, [c], measured "in imperial miles, and the ratio of the strong and electromagnetic forces is a squared velocity," [seconds squared].

(From dead link:)
D. Summary
- The claims by metrologists that imperial measure is the root of all measurement systems are factual.
- The establishment of a simplified and unifying system of measurement in physics indicates a vastly superior knowledge of the subject. Plato and other sources point to an esoteric tradition regarding this knowledge
- The ancient alchemical dictum "As above, so below" would appear to have a solid factual basis in an inverse relationship between the macrocosm and microcosm. This is alluded in the use of imperial miles. Findings in this will not be made public at this time.
I sense a disturbance in the farce.

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JaJa
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Re: Question about the EM Spectrum

Post by JaJa » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:21 am

jjohnson wrote:Too long-winded, as usual.
No Jim. Very insightful. Thank you for taking the time to respond in such depth. I have already read through your information twice and need a few more reads for it to sink in. Thanks again.

@Goldminer. I need some time to read through your info and links - but thanks :D
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Goldminer
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Re: Question about the EM Spectrum

Post by Goldminer » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:32 am

As I recall, the simple semiconductor junction known as a diode had been developed and in use for quite some time before it was realized that it could produce light when "over biased." The junctions were always encapsulated in opaque modules. Nobody suspected or paid much attention. When they discovered the light producing ability, they discovered that the light was coherent. In other words, laser light. Up till then, it took an elaborate mirrored chamber and high voltage to produce the laser light. This laser diode development is what opened up the gigahertz part of the EM spectrum. Until recently, there was not much use of and anthropolution in this part of the spectrum.

Check this, this, and this.
I sense a disturbance in the farce.

jjohnson
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Re: Question about the EM Spectrum

Post by jjohnson » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:07 pm

You're welcome, JaJa, but it is too long for a forum posting.

Goldminer, I am a child of the imperial system of units ("born in the USA") and I have grown to dislike it and to prefer the base-10 SI system of units. I don't have 12 digits, nor just 2, or I'd be better off in one of those bases, and not 10. The arbitrary length of a king's foot or outstretched arm is of no mnemonic utility at all.

Which is easier to remember, 1000 m or 5280 feet? 100,000 cm or 63,360 inches or 1760 yards? 1 m or 39.37 inches or "about" 39 23/64 inches? Duodecimals and hexadecimal counting systems are just strange, when they could be subdivided or amplified (i.e., exponentiation) by moving a decimal (from "10") point back and forth, zeroes as needed. 3-sided Engineers' scales ("rulers") are divided into tenths and 50ths and 100ths (as well as 20ths, 30ths etc through 60ths) similar to SI units scales because decimal numbers are just easier to deal with and to multiply/divide in your head. Some people find it hard to think or grasp in a "new and difficultly different" scale of things, and are comfortable with the old, familiar and "tried and true", whether or not it is illogical. It seems that every other nation in the world is out of step in unit standardization except for the U.S. and perhaps half of Canada! ;)

And still, our scientific and military establishments have already made the switch decades back, and despite our government's schedule for "metrification", that largely continues to be observed in the breach.

Jim

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tayga
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Re: Question about the EM Spectrum

Post by tayga » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:16 pm

Jim,

I'm constantly dismayed that the US at large persists with Imperial units. Of course, your scientists don't but I think that we scientists are always on the look out for an easier way. It can only be the comfort of familiarity or a hint of xenophobia (SI is French, after all) that makes anyone prefer gallons, miles and ergs!
tayga


It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

- Richard P. Feynman

Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
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