Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

[Lloyd]

On Charles' thread at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... 714#p76714 I said: "JC posted a link to this Youtube video of a crater that apparently formed recently on the Moon immediately after a bright flash of light. Do you have a comment on it?"

And he replied.
CC: This looks like a fake. Look at the way craters near the "impact site" are brightened, supposedly by the light reflected off of the dust cloud (?), but craters just a bit further away are not affected at all. And check some of the other fake videos from the same YouTube poster (i.e., Chris Brobs), such as the ones with highly detailed UFOs flying past the camera.

I went on to discuss Comet Tempel 1, but he hasn't commented a lot on that yet.

[nick c]

This looks like a fake. Look at the way craters near the "impact site" are brightened, supposedly by the light reflected off of the dust cloud (?), but craters just a bit further away are not affected at all. And check some of the other fake videos from the same YouTube poster (i.e., Chris Brobs), such as the ones with highly detailed UFOs flying past the camera.

Yes, it seems to be faked.
The only reference to the Chinese lunar probe finding a new crater turned out to be the result of a processing error, in the stitching together of a photo panorama. There was no discovery of a new crater.
http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2007 ... olved?lite

Lakdawalla found that a mistake was apparently made in stitching together the 19 strips of imagery to produce the finished picture - and that Chinese officials unknowingly pointed out that mistake as they defended the photo's veracity.
The mission's chief scientist, Ouyang Ziyuan, told the Beijing News that a new crater had been spotted on the Chang'e imagery - a crater that didn't appear on the U.S. imagery. Lakdawalla determined that crater in question it wasn't exactly new - instead, it appeared to be a crater that had been moved from one spot on the picture to another spot slightly south

[justcurious]

So did you guys check the other videos from NASA themselves?
Only problem is that they don't have any close-ups. Mostly amateur astronomers who can no longer be dismissed due to their ability to record the events. As I mentioned previously NASA is collecting this info from "independent" astronomers around the world. But they don't seem to be sharing those videos.
However, at the bottom of this page http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/ne ... hotos.html you can find a video showing moon flashes, here is the direct link to the video file: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/wm ... in_nac.wmv

The above video comes straight from NASA's website. Most of those flashes are so quick that, assuming it's not a defect of the camera and/or associated image processing, looks like static electricity to my untrained eye. I have a hard time imagining how molten rock/metal material could generate sparks/flashes from just heat. I would think that it would take more than a fraction of a second for the molten stuff to cool to a point that it doesn't emit light.

Regarding the Chinese photoshop claims, I read through it, and it looks like people just jumped on China's first Lunar picture looking for errors. The groupies of the "China faked it" internet movement claimed to have scored a slam dunk in their analysis and comparison of old moon pictures from 1994 with the Chinese photo. Anyways, it's a waste of time arguing about it. The point I wanted to make is that craters are being created on the moon constantly from what I can see, so the fact that China announced they found a new crater should not be a big deal at all.

Regarding the video I posted, I tried finding the original source but did not have any luck. To me it looked like a realistic close-up of the moon flashes as seen from far. I assume that it is not a fake as it looks like some other close-up videos I found previously (but can't find again...ughh so frustrating!), but this one was the closest. Regarding the bright flashes on the crater ring, I would be weary of drawing any conclusions without knowing much about the type of telescope and measuring equipment. To my untrained eye, it did look like there was some auto-focus going on due to the bright intensity of the flash.

[GaryN]

(but can't find again...ughh so frustrating!),

I've had that happen more than once, and just a couple of weeks ago I saw an image of a lunar crater that was compared to one taken 10 years ago. It was the same crater, as it could be identified by the pattern of the surrounding craters, but it had enlarged by probably 50%. I remember wondering how they were going to explain that, but for some reason I can not find the article in my bookmarks, and I have tried searching with no luck so far. As this has happened more than once, I have to suspect that some articles are quickly removed when someone realises the implications of what they showed. I think it obvious that craters are both formed and altered electrically, and that truth must come out eventually, but with so few people paying attention, or even caring, they could get away with their shenanigans for years to come.

[nick c]

GaryN, justcurious,
This is not the board for discussion of conspiracy theories or sinister plots.
If you have some evidence of a new crater on the Moon we would all be interested.

[webolife]

I for one have looked in vain for a single incidence of a TLP [transient lunar phenomenon] with a new crater.
The one in that video is pretty clearly a fake, which is just unfortunate. Is anyone aware of a legitimate example?

[Lloyd]

Better Evidence of Electrical Erosion
When I told Charles about the new Moon crater video, I went on to discuss the TB project's Comet Tempel 1 video. I said this.
Compare with Comet Tempel 1
- Have you seen the Deep Impact video of the impact of an artificial projectile on comet Tempel 1? Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn_HqbMmn-4. The impact is first shown at about the 3' 30" mark. Thornhill says the bright flash is from electrical discharge. You say thermonuclear explosion. At near the 8' mark, an image is shown with the statement that new jets formed 15 hours after impact far from the location of the impact. Can your theory account for that? It seems like Thornhill's theory may account for it better offhand. I guess you might suppose that some meteors may have followed the spacecraft and hit the comet, but isn't that improbable?
- This website http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/deepimpact/ ... ctor_A.cfm says the projectile was moving at 10.2 km/s relative to the comet. I suppose that's a somewhat normal velocity for a meteor before impact. Have you estimated what would be the minimum velocity necessary for thermonuclear explosion of a meteor?

Comet Electrical Features?
- At just after the 10' mark on the Deep Impact video, scalloped edges are said to be visible on the comet. You had said I think that you didn't think there is scalloping on the Moon, but I think there probably is, especially in many of the rilles. Since the comet is much smaller than the Moon, it seems that such electrical features may be common on most solar system bodies. What do you think about this?
- After the 12' mark possible electric arcing is shown on Tempel 1 and other bodies. Then at the 15' mark a mesa cliff is shown to have eroded quite a bit over a matter of months I think, apparently from electrical erosion.
What about that?
- Have you ever looked at lunar rilles and did you see Juergens' article on them? If not, see http://saturniancosmology.org/juergensa.htm. Especially see that table a little over halfway down the page, which shows why rilles are more likely electrical features than anything else. The table kind of summarizes the article.
See Charles' comments at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... 825#p76714.

[justcurious]

GaryN, justcurious,
This is not the board for discussion of conspiracy theories or sinister plots.
If you have some evidence of a new crater on the Moon we would all be interested.

For the record, I have never discussed a conspiracy theory, only evidence (and perhaps the validity of the evidence) regarding meteor impacts, the evidence being footage/videos.

[justcurious]

I for one have looked in vain for a single incidence of a TLP [transient lunar phenomenon] with a new crater.
The one in that video is pretty clearly a fake, which is just unfortunate. Is anyone aware of a legitimate example?

It looks real to me. But it's not an official source so a high probability of being a fake.
What brings you to this conclusion? The arguments about it being a fake I saw on this board are simply not substantiated in my opinion. Although it would be nice to have good reliable footage from a reliable source. On the other hand, it might be real so why not look and try and get some insight rather than dismissing outright.

[justcurious]

Here is a pretty good video with times, we can see that the flash is a fraction of a second.
I can't imagine an impact explosion of sorts would cause such a quick spark, it sure looks like static electricity or some sort of light effect, rather than a small side-effect. The flashes seem very big compared to the sizes of the craters. But what do I know.

http://www.lunarimpacts.com/gv_031224_042207_anim.gif

Here's anopther one:

http://www.lunarimpacts.com/031308_020421.gif

They are affiliated to NASA via http://www.gvarros.com and http://www.pvamu.edu/Include/Physics/do ... mpacts.htm

I believe these are good sources of information to study metor impacts because the moon is so close and there are hundreds of independent astronomers contributing to the NASA's Lunar IMpact Monitoring project: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/lunar/

[dahlenaz]

Has anyone contactee the person, who uploaded the video, to determine if it is really a fake?

Asside from the detail given from Charles, what else is evidence of it being suspicious?

Some of the anomolies i am seeing could possiblly be added to support other suspicions..

Misleading me once is easy,,, but can causes irreparable damage... Who can we trust anymore? d...z


,,,

[nick c]

Asside from the detail given from Charles, what else is evidence of it being suspicious?

According to the caption, the video was from the Chinese lunar probe, so should not there be some official source for this video sequence? which if real is a remarkable discovery. Where is the official release from the Chinese? I could not find any. All that we have is a YouTube video from a questionable source.

[justcurious]

Has anyone contactee the person, who uploaded the video, to determine if it is really a fake?

Asside from the detail given from Charles, what else is evidence of it being suspicious?

Some of the anomolies i am seeing could possiblly be added to support other suspicions..

Misleading me once is easy,,, but can causes irreparable damage... Who can we trust anymore? d...z


,,,

Personaly I don't take it (the video) as fact but rather as "it might be a fake or it might not, so I'll look at it and keep it in mind".

Did you see the other videos I posted from official/public sources? The flashes are incredibly fast, a fraction of a second. I can't imagine molten blobs of solid getting red hot (or rather white hot) and cooling with such an intensity that it can be viewed with amateur telescopes from Earth, all in a tenth of a second or so.

[dahlenaz]

Personaly I don't take it (the video) as fact but rather as "it might be a fake or it might not, so I'll look at it and
keep it in mind".

Did you see the other videos I posted from official/public sources? The flashes are incredibly fast, a fraction of a
second. I can't imagine molten blobs of solid getting red hot (or rather white hot) and cooling with such an intensity
that it can be viewed with amateur telescopes from Earth, all in a tenth of a second or so.

I have not been able to look at them because of a slow connection and a computer problem.

I've been wondering about the video you first sent and the possibility of it being a camera flash
from a screen shot,,, we should be able to replicate that and eliminate that possibility using
one of those you sent later. It might take two cameras to accomplish capturing a flash on video
but it might be worth the effort.... d...z

...

[nick c]

Look at some of the other videos this fellow has posted:
http://www.youtube.com/user/johnbrobs?feature=watch
NASA Moon Object Video
UFO SPOTTED OVER LAS VEGAS, NEVADA
Plus an assortment of special effects and UFO videos.

The YouTube video claims to be from the China Lunar Probe, so how did this YouTuber obtain the video if it was never released by China? if it was released, where is the official press release from the China space agency?

I would love to see an actual video or even still pictures of a crater being formed on the Moon. But this YouTube video cannot be given any credibility if it stands alone.