26,000 year orbit around the Pleiades

[moses]

Lay a coin on a table with a salt shaker. The coin represents the plane of the
planets with the Sun in the centre of the coin, and the salt shaker represents
Alcyone or the Pleiades. Now the coin takes 26,000 years to travel around
the shaker, in a clockwise direction. Mark the coin with a line from the centre
to the edge of the coin. This line represents the direction of the Earth from
the Sun. Now rotate the coin anticlockwise as it travels around the shaker.
If the line on the coin initially points at the shaker, then after turning, the coin
has not done a complete 360 degrees when the line again points at the shaker.
The coin has to turn an extra amount to rotate 360 degrees. This difference is
the precession of the Earth's pole.

Mainstream science obviously disagrees with this. Mayan belief has it that the
Solar System travels around the Pleiades in 26,000 years, roughly. Also Sirius
would follow a similar orbit to the Sun, so it too would orbit the Pleiades. Note
that actually the coin and the shaker are also travelling upwards together. Thus
producing a spiral path. Now, is it gravity drawing the Sun and the Pleiades
towards each other, or is it an electrical effect ?

So as the Sun curves, the Earth's pole follows this curve. This has significance
when considering that the Sun curves due to the gravitational influence of the
planets, so the Earth's pole would be effected by this curvature in the same way.
And also sunspots are related to the amount of curvature. And, indeed, during
periods of large numbers of sunspots there is a much larger amplitude in the
Chandler wobble of the Earth's axis.

Worth considering,
Mo

[JoeTB]

How did you decide on Pleiades or Alcyone? I've heard Sirius mentioned as well in this context. What are their distances?

Can we use the data for the rate at which precession is increasing + Kepler's rules in order to figure out where we would be in this orbit? I suppose that would already narrow it down to the exciting half.

[junglelord]

Interesting. I always thought that the stars maintain their nodual resonate positions relative to each other and the galaxy spins as a solid Faraday Disk Unipolar Motor>

[moses]

How did you decide on Pleiades or Alcyone? I've heard Sirius mentioned as well in this context. What are their distances?

Well the coin is flat on the table because otherwise the planets, for example Jupiter, would
move wrt the fixed stars after doing a lap around the Sun. Thus the binary would be near
the plane of the planets. If it was an elliptical orbit the Sun travels, then the binary could
be anywhere in this plane. The Pleiades has the ancient history. Incidentally, there are other
possibilities of the coin on the table, such as it standing on it's side, but these possibilities
are eliminated because they don't fit the astronomy facts.

Sirius does not move wrt the fixed stars, more or less, so if the Sun is curving intrajectory,
then so is Sirius and therefore orbits the same body - the Pleiades. Now if you believe the
mainstream distances then Sirius = 8.6 light years whilst the Pleiades = about 400 lys.
The distance to the stars relies on light travelling in straight lines and not being curved
by electrical potential gradients.

Can we use the data for the rate at which precession is increasing + Kepler's rules in order to figure out where we would be in this orbit? I suppose that would already narrow it down to the exciting half.

This has been done by the Mayan ! They say that the Sun is moving back from being the
greatest distance away. The exciting bit is that every 5,000 years or so there is supposed
to be an emanation from the Pleiades that upsets the Solar System considerably, and, of
course, this is due around, you guessed it, 2012. I should find the reference.
Mo

[JoeTB]

What's interesting about the Mayans is that people give them credit for inventing the most acurate primitive calander in the history of the universe, yet allow the notion that they would not be able to record an acurate eclipse table.

Incidentally, if you do line their tables up with reality, you will find that '2012' doesn't come for another 500 years or so.

If you're familiar with the 'dark ages' controversy, you might find that fact even more interesting.

Anyway, forget about the eclipse 'warning station' nonsense. And really you would do better leaving their calanders out entirely for the discussion to be taken seriously. This 2012 propoganda doesn't even account for the time periods when there were less days in the year.

[moses]

Interesting. I always thought that the stars maintain their nodual resonate positions relative to each other and the galaxy spins as a solid Faraday Disk Unipolar Motor>

Consider these :
http://mb-soft.com/public/galaxy.html
Galaxy Spiral Arm Stability and Dynamics.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/r ... 41026.html

http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stor ... 942665.htm
Solar system and Milky Way doing the splits.

Throw in plasma being in cells and the electric potentials that are involved
in star clusters, and the situation is quite unclear.
Mo

[Grey Cloud]

Incidentally, if you do line their tables up with reality, you will find that '2012' doesn't come for another 500 years or so.

Hey Joe
Can you let me know where you got that from please?

[polarityparadox]

Lay a coin on a table with a salt shaker. The coin represents the plane of the
planets with the Sun in the centre of the coin, and the salt shaker represents
Alcyone or the Pleiades. Now the coin takes 26,000 years to travel around
the shaker, in a clockwise direction. Mark the coin with a line from the centre
to the edge of the coin. This line represents the direction of the Earth from
the Sun. Now rotate the coin anticlockwise as it travels around the shaker.
If the line on the coin initially points at the shaker, then after turning, the coin
has not done a complete 360 degrees when the line again points at the shaker.
The coin has to turn an extra amount to rotate 360 degrees. This difference is
the precession of the Earth's pole.

Mainstream science obviously disagrees with this. Mayan belief has it that the
Solar System travels around the Pleiades in 26,000 years, roughly. Also Sirius
would follow a similar orbit to the Sun, so it too would orbit the Pleiades. Note
that actually the coin and the shaker are also travelling upwards together. Thus
producing a spiral path. Now, is it gravity drawing the Sun and the Pleiades
towards each other, or is it an electrical effect ?

So as the Sun curves, the Earth's pole follows this curve. This has significance
when considering that the Sun curves due to the gravitational influence of the
planets, so the Earth's pole would be effected by this curvature in the same way.
And also sunspots are related to the amount of curvature. And, indeed, during
periods of large numbers of sunspots there is a much larger amplitude in the
Chandler wobble of the Earth's axis.

Worth considering,
Mo

In regards to the 25, 920 yr precessional wobble there is also another fascinating correlation. John Major Jenkins, a writer specializing in Mayan timekeeping, was browsing through a tome entitled Sub-atomic Wave-Particle Electrodynamics where he came across a section called, "Gyromagnetic Proton Precession and Field Strength.

"Proton precession?? This is a little known electrodynamic principle that operates on protons. Within a larger, encompassing electromagnetic field, a proton exhibits a precessional wobble, very much like the earth's wobble on it's axis. He read that, "the speed of the proton's wobble is directly related to the strength of the encompassing field, as well as the proton's distance from the source of the field!" Here was a principle identified in nuclear particle physics that described precession on the microcosmic level. Jenkins felt that there might be nothing to stop us from applying that principle to the earth (proton) and the galactic Center (as the source of the field). What intrigued him was that it provides a connection btw. the precession rate of the proton (the earth) and the distance from the source of the encompassing field (galactic center). Could this explain the fact that the distance in light years btw. the earth and the galactic center is equivalent to the rate of precession? Precession would therefore appear to be keyed - directly and immediately, to the electromagnetic field generating dynamics of the GC."

In his book Galactic Alignment, John Major Jenkins weaves together some great sources to strongly support an electrically based cosmology behind creative evolution. This from a review by Willard Van De Bogart:

"But, nowhere is Jenkins' synthesis more apparent than when he brings to light the work of Dr. Reiser and his scientific humanistic research to show how precession has the same ratios of frequency and cycles on the quantum levels of existence as it does on the macro levels of our solar system in relation to the galactic center. It may be difficult to find a copy of Reiser's now out of print book Cosmic Humanism, but the search would be well worth it. In Cosmic Humanism one will learn of how the changing field dynamics of the electromagnetic fields emanating from galactic center are linked to biological evolution. Reiser even states:

". . . the coil of life (DNA) which supplies the architectural pattern for the fabrication of all organisms has something to do with the earth's rotation and its magnetic polarities, and the cosmic ray showers which originate in our own spiral galaxy."

Little is known of Dr. Reiser today, but during his tenure at the philosophy department for over 50 years (1925-1974) at the University of Pittsburgh, he maintained a close relationship with Dr. Albert Einstein. It was Einstein in fact who made the suggestion that Dr. Reiser change his original title "Scientific Humanism" to "Cosmic Humanism". Dr. Reiser coined the term "Psi Bank" which referred to the relationship between geomagnetic field forces and human evolution, which was far more scientific than de Chardin's Noosphere concept. Reiser challenged the Darwinian model of progressive evolution, and was credited with anticipating the discovery of the Van Allen Radiation Belts as well as the discovery of reverse-magnetized rocks as reported in his 1937 article "Cosmecology: A Theory of Evolution".

All these scientific offerings in Galactic Alignment are truly supportive evidence of humankind's evolutionary development on earth. The scientific paradigm, when imbued with the physics of concrescence and a higher order of understanding, which Jenkins has done, unveils the same secret revelations that are now being re-discovered in all ancient scriptures, and mirrored in ancient architecture from around the world. Jenkins provides the reader with these thoughts on the electromagnetic entrainment between the earth, the plane of our solar system, and the galactic plane as a highly improbable statistic.

"The Milky Way and the ecliptic cross at a 61º angle. The ecliptic zodiac passes through the Milky Way very close to where the Galactic Center is located along the Milky Way. The zodiac is the plane of the earth's orbit around the sun --- it is the plane of our solar system. No known law exists to explain why the earth's orbital plane should be locked to the coordinates of the Galactic Center, unless some kind of magnetic entrainment were involved."

my insert - from his book - "...what seems probable here is that the Galactic center is a giant field generator, to the degree that the rotational plane of our solar system naturally entrains itself to it."

It is this entrainment which we are experiencing today, and the magnetic fields will be the strongest, and have the most impact on our spiritual evolution as we approach the North Gate for our passage through this galactic portal."

"One recurrent theme that flows throughout Galactic Alignment is the concept of the PRIMORDIAL TRADITION or the PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY. Both refer to an ageless wisdom which comes from a transcendent realm. Coomaraswamy preferred to call it "sophia perennis et universalis": the eternal and universal wisdom. The key thought here is that "even though the ancient wisdom may be forgotten, it will inevitably resurface, for it is a wisdom based upon universal principles that operate whether or not human beings are directly aware of them." These universal operating principles are found in all the ancient sacred sciences. The advent of rationalism brought forth the profane sciences, and over the centuries these universal truths have been buried. But now these sacred truths are reemerging as the ascent phase of the precessional cycle begins once again.

In the chapter called "Galactic Alignment: The Key to the Primordial Tradition", Jenkins offers concluding concepts that will impact our existence on earth. Jenkins states:

"It should be significant that we can now describe the Perennial Philosophy as being galactic in nature; the Galactic Center is its orientational locus and the transcendental source of the perspectives it encodes. Like a lost Atlantean dimension of the human soul, the Primordial Tradition now appears ready to make a dramatic reappearance on the stage of human history.

Now, as we enter a new millennium by our own calendric reckoning, we can expect a re-spiritualizing (and dematerializing) of life on earth, to increase for another 12,800 years. The new 'ascent' of galactic awareness should parallel the re-establishment of the Primordial Tradition."

In his endorsement of Jenkins' work, author Joscelyn Godwin (The Theosophical Enlightenment and Arktos: The Polar Myth ), wrote: "John Major Jenkins is the most global and erudite voice in a swelling chorus of Galactic Center theorists. By framing the subject in the context of the Primordial Tradition, he raises it to a new level of seriousness, and of reassurance." It is this Primordial Tradition aspect of Galactic Alignment where Jenkins has added to the meaning of such mythological concepts as the Symplegades, the solstice doorways, the theft of Soma, the Clashing Cliffs, and the Scorpion Men who guard the gates of the transcendent "Sundoor at World's End". This "Sundoor" that lies between the Clashing Cliffs, is also called the North Gate. We now have the opportunity to pass through this galactic portal. Galactic Alignment is so rich in history, mythology, astronomy, and the significance of our spiritual evolution that it is very difficult to touch on every aspect mentioned in this masterful synthesis of scholarship drawn from manuscripts around the world. However, even though my own understanding of the contents of Galactic Alignment may be implicit in this review, it is not my aim to demonstrate how much I understand Galactic Alignment, but more to state emphatically that the work itself is a significant contribution to anyone's understanding of human destiny."

[moses]

Yes - the lining up of the Earth's axis with the galactic centre is
pretty sus. I don't believe mainstream distances to stars and the
GC. In fact there is very little mainstream stuff in any subject
that I now believe in. I do feel that something is happening or
will happen. But I still think that the Sun curves through space
and this is the cause of precession. I didn't think that outside
magnetic or electrical fields could effect Earth because of the
double layer around the Earth. Thus it would be a Birkland current
that could effect the Earth, and so such a current would likely be
pulsed from the GC every 26,000 years.
Mo

[polarityparadox]

good point about the distances issue, mo. I am in the same frame of mind as you are in regards to most mainstream pronouncements, hard to trust when you see the emperor wears no clothes in so many disciplines that consider themselves infallible...

in the redshift distance measurements, must we ALWAYS assume that some of its redshift is due to other factors, thus always skewing any measurement attempted???

ben

[moses]

in the redshift distance measurements, must we ALWAYS assume that some of its redshift is due to other factors, thus always skewing any measurement attempted???
ben

As far as the distance to galaxies are concerned - yes ! For determining the
direction and speed of the Solar System, I don't know. The distance to the GC
is determined in a variety of ways, plenty of which produce strange distances,
but these would be thrown out. Nearby distances rely on light travelling in
straight lines. I'm certainly an amateur at this stuff though.
Mo

[webolife]

Halton Arp's intrinsic redshifts make distance determinations pretty much anyone's guess. But relative motion away from or toward the perceiver's reference point changes the field geometry, if ever so slightly, creating some red/blue shifting of the spectrum as a function of the variability of the light "vector cone" base diameter at our peripheral point of perception. Think of the light cone altitude as the distance to the object. Our relative motion through the spectral field [across the base] of a light beam/cone can also produce red/blue shifting. One has to ask, is the source spectrum shifting, or are the absorbtion "lines" shifting, and what causes this? Doppler waving light has never proven an adequate explanation. So regarding Sol's movement with respect to the Pleiades, one must take into consideration several things:
1. Our relative motion away from or towards the cluster,
2. Our relative movement across the field of view, including...
3. Intrinsic spin aspects of spin of the Pleiades cluster, and...
4. Our own movement with respect to the galactic center, possibly significant because it affects our field geometry.
Redshifting is only one aspect of this picture, and suspect Dopplerizing of the redshift doesn't help our certainty.
All we really have is limited ancient historic observations of Pleiades... hard to build a case on, IMHO.

[Grey Cloud]

I may be missing something here but I do not think that the actual or specific distance between, say, Earth and the GC is that important. I think that it more a question of relative distance - sometimes we are closer and sometimes further away.
It seems evident to me that for whatever reason, all mythologies, religions traditions etc concern themselves with the constellations of the zodiac and various stars. And it always strikes me as odd that out of all the stars in the sky, the same names crop up - the Pleiades, Sirius, Orion etc.
I find the images at this link revealing, if not humbling:
http://www.rense.com/general72/size.htm

Slightly off-topic but mention of the Symplegades led me to a quick google to refresh my memory. The resultant wiki article contains the following wisdom:

The similarities and differences between the Wandering Rocks and the Symplegades has been much debated by scholars, as has potential locations for them. (See also Geography of the Odyssey) As Scylla and Charybdis have often been located in the Straits of Messina this has led some (such as E. V. Rieu) to suggest the Wandering Rocks were located around Sicily, with their flames and smoke coming from Mount Etna. An alternative theory of the geography of the Odyssey places Circe, the Sirens, Scylla & Charybdis and the Wandering Rocks, all mentioned in the stories of both Jason and Odysseus, in north west Greece.

Modern academics wouldn't know an allegory if they tripped over one.

[moses]

It seems evident to me that for whatever reason, all mythologies, religions traditions etc concern themselves with the constellations of the zodiac and various stars. And it always strikes me as odd that out of all the stars in the sky, the same names crop up - the Pleiades, Sirius, Orion etc.
I find the images at this link revealing, if not humbling:
http://www.rense.com/general72/size.htm
The Pleiades and Orion are pretty striking and they are near the ecliptic,
which makes them good for measuring time, etc. Sirius is the brightest
and it moves notably different to the other stars. But there could well be
much more involved.

The pictures of the stars are a good example of distances probably being
wrong, although the big red stars seem fundamentally different to other
stars, which could also mean that their measured distances are way out
due to these differences. I remain an unbeliever !
Mo

[webolife]

Grey Cloud,
You may be right about the Earth/GC connection; but I mentioned it here because, as the solar system moves either toward or away from the GC, our own light field vectors may undergo some redshifting that may affect our perception of relative motion of other nearby objects such as the Pleiades cluster. My view of stellar/galactic-scale redshift, apart from the intrinsic redshifts of Arp, is that our relative direction of motion is what may produce the shift, not our velocity per se. The relative direction directly affects vector aspects within our field, while velocity determination is highly assumption dependent. In addition to what Mo said, all the objects you questioned are neighbors, in that we are in the Orion arm of the Milky Way, bright Sirius is the 5th closest star to Sol, and the Pleiades/Subaru is one of the closest open clusters to us. The Big Dipper asterism, the orange star Arcturus, and the red star Betelgeuse are other notable nearbies. These objects play prominently in world mythology partly because of their visibility, but also because of the remarkable constellation shapes they are associated with. I too am still somewhat skeptical [oops, don't tell Plasmatic!], though open-minded, when it comes to building Earth history connections from mythological information. The Saturn stuff really bothers me, but hanging around here is getting me used to it...