Universe Consists of Consciousness

[mague]

Even this is too wordy. Too mentally busy. Too intellectual. [sigh]

Born as enlightened being

Picked up distracting toys from the floor

Open the hands and let them fall back to where they have been

Done

[bboyer]

Even this is too wordy. Too mentally busy. Too intellectual. [sigh]

Born as enlightened being

Picked up distracting toys from the floor

Open the hands and let them fall back to where they have been

Done

never arrived

never left

always present

[ ]

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Arc-us,
I can do it both ways. Mostly I contemplate upon things and, all else being equal, I 'see' how things fit together; what is correct and why and what is not correct and why. More rarely, I do the non-thinking where I 'empty my mind' and the 'thoughts' appear in it.
Either way, I don't like coming back here to the realm of avidya-maya I would sooner stay in the realm of vidya-maya.
Just for the record, I'm not claiming I know the Truth full stop or even period, only the Truth of what I think about.
I suppose it all boils down to how one defines 'thinking'. Most people only think they can think. I used to think I could think until a few years ago. For some reason my abiltiy to think moved onto a different level. Perhaps there are other levels still.

[bboyer]

Hi Arc-us,
I can do it both ways. Mostly I contemplate upon things and, all else being equal, I 'see' how things fit together; what is correct and why and what is not correct and why. More rarely, I do the non-thinking where I 'empty my mind' and the 'thoughts' appear in it.
Either way, I don't like coming back here to the realm of avidya-maya I would sooner stay in the realm of vidya-maya.
Just for the record, I'm not claiming I know the Truth full stop or even period, only the Truth of what I think about.
I suppose it all boils down to how one defines 'thinking'. Most people only think they can think. I used to think I could think until a few years ago. For some reason my abiltiy to think moved onto a different level. Perhaps there are other levels still.

Yes, of course. Tis' the human way, I believe. We "have" a lovely mind, a wondrous tool, in any condition it may be found. Then, there is the nameless, thoughtless umm ... " [ ] " (sorry best I can do).

[bboyer]

Hi Arc-us,
I can do it both ways. Mostly I contemplate upon things and, all else being equal, I 'see' how things fit together; what is correct and why and what is not correct and why. More rarely, I do the non-thinking where I 'empty my mind' and the 'thoughts' appear in it.

Just dawned on me, GC; what occurs when the thoughts appear within empty mind? Do you become distracted or bored and find yourself following them? Or do you just allow them to pass through as so much "weather"? Have you ever reached a point where your mind has just simply and finally settled, like the settling out of a stirred up glass of murky water until the clear and colorless remains, with no further arising of any thought? If so, did you take note of what was present at that instant, or was this [simple]... stillness of presence ... ignored or not noticed? Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not respond publicly. Anyways, that stillness of presence is what I'm speaking of in earlier posts; It will be found to be also "that" which is ... present ... in deep, dreamless sleep; "that" from which dreams and wakefulness emerge and return.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Arc-us,
I can do it both ways. Mostly I contemplate upon things and, all else being equal, I 'see' how things fit together; what is correct and why and what is not correct and why. More rarely, I do the non-thinking where I 'empty my mind' and the 'thoughts' appear in it.

Just dawned on me, GC; what occurs when the thoughts appear within empty mind? Do you become distracted or bored and find yourself following them? Or do you just allow them to pass through as so much "weather"? Have you ever reached a point where your mind has just simply and finally settled, like the settling out of a stirred up glass of murky water until the clear and colorless remains, with no further arising of any thought? If so, did you take note of what was present at that instant, or was this [simple]... stillness of presence ... ignored or not noticed? Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not respond publicly. Anyways, that stillness of presence is what I'm speaking of in earlier posts; It will be found to be also "that" which is ... present ... in deep, dreamless sleep; "that" from which dreams and wakefulness emerge and return.

Hi arc-us,
Writing 'I empty my mind' was somewhat misleading. I didn't mean it in the sense of meditating, it's more a case of when I'm on automatic pilot doing a no-brainer like waiting for the kettle to boil or putting away my socks. Usually when I'm doing such things I'm actively thinking about something but, as I said, rarely I'm not thinking of anything in particular and - pop - some though or concept just appears 'out of the blue'. This is a recent development of the last several months.
My 'thoughting' seems dependent on the weather, or at least the Sun and the Moon. For instance when it is overcast all day, which is not uncommon here (hence my nick), and there is no Sun I'm generally brain-dead until night-time and the Moon shows up. Strangely, cloud cover doesn't seem to affect the Moon.

I've just been re-reading Homer, Poet of Maya, which is also by Upton
This passage jumped out me:

... in contemplation, the knower is one with the thing known. However, the reflection of this contemplative Unity on the mental level (whose yogic site is the visshudha-chakra situated at the throat) is multiple, like the image of
the Sun reflected in the waves of the sea. We may be granted—or we may steal—a glimpse of spiritual Unity, but if we have not paid the price required for the full and stable realisation of that Unity, this incandescent glimpse will immediately fall to the level of discursive thought with its many voices; consequently the mental substance will
become over-energised, driving us to the obsessive and futile attempt — all-too-clearly in evidence in today’s world —to think every possible thought.

The part I've highlighted is exactly the way it happens with me. I plead guilty to the last part but there is something or someone who keeps my feet on the ground and helps me maintain a sense of perspective (i.e. I've come a fair way but I've still got a long way to go).
The ten-page essay can be had here:
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/eyeoftheheart/issue4.html (Kudos to Stefan for unearthing this little gold-mine).
Iliad and Odyssey seasoned with Tao, Vedanta, Buddhism, Christianity and even Nordic myth. Well worth the time to read.

[bboyer]

I've just been re-reading Homer, Poet of Maya, which is also by Upton
This passage jumped out me:

... in contemplation, the knower is one with the thing known. However, the reflection of this contemplative Unity on the mental level (whose yogic site is the visshudha-chakra situated at the throat) is multiple, like the image of
the Sun reflected in the waves of the sea. We may be granted—or we may steal—a glimpse of spiritual Unity, but if we have not paid the price required for the full and stable realisation of that Unity, this incandescent glimpse will immediately fall to the level of discursive thought with its many voices; consequently the mental substance will
become over-energised, driving us to the obsessive and futile attempt — all-too-clearly in evidence in today’s world —to think every possible thought.

The part I've highlighted is exactly the way it happens with me. I plead guilty to the last part but there is something or someone who keeps my feet on the ground and helps me maintain a sense of perspective (i.e. I've come a fair way but I've still got a long way to go).
The ten-page essay can be had here:
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/eyeoftheheart/issue4.html (Kudos to Stefan for unearthing this little gold-mine).
Iliad and Odyssey seasoned with Tao, Vedanta, Buddhism, Christianity and even Nordic myth. Well worth the time to read.

Ok, I think I understand where you're coming from. Thanks! We're not quite on the same page, but close. Probably about as good as it's gonna get considering the medium here.

Thanks, too, for the reference.

[elijahblackwood]

never arrived

never left

always present

100% agree with that.

You can't put it into words, and thinking about it, the Mind simply runs away with itself. Whatever you say will do it injustice.

In trying to make sense of the process I make a comparison with my two children. My son has just turned 18 months and become of aware of him-self, in that he can now look in the mirror and recognise himself, this is quite common with children who generally pass the mirror test between 15 and 24 months. Before my son was able to recognise who and what he was in reality, he was just in awe of everything. Perhaps as adults we are able to look into the mirror and see the reflection for what it is not, and again find ourselves in awe of everything.

Let the seeker not stop seeking until he finds. And when he finds, he will be greatly troubled. And after he has been troubled, he will be astonished, and he will reign over the All.

The Nazarene

Cheers

[StefanR]

Ok, I think I understand where you're coming from. Thanks! We're not quite on the same page, but close. Probably about as good as it's gonna get considering the medium here.

From my perspective you are on the same page, but both on a different side of that page.
If I read GC's words correctly it seems to me that by letting his mind rumble, there is seemingly this past time a slowly getting more aware of the gap between the thoughts. Although it is still a mere fleeting glimpse perhaps not even dimly percieved, it is from there a sudden insight of understanding remains after that, as if it "appeared" all of a sudden. But you seem to say it is the knowledge or sight one has from being the gap between the thoughts and the clarity inside which seems to have a higher quality, up a level so to say. The difficulty sadly for that clarity is that it is often difficult to put proper into words or thoughts, only shards of the whole glass can be shown.
But a thing were the difference lies is in how to put on the kettle or doing the socks, it is when you do put on the kettle you have to put on the kettle, if you do that, the water will boil right away.

Other glimpses like GC's of what you mention Arc-us,in my view are like this somewhat, it should be recognizable I hope:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGWU4QhJ ... re=related

ps. Forgive my intrusion

[StefanR]

The ten-page essay can be had here:
http://www.latrobe.edu.au/eyeoftheheart/issue4.html (Kudos to Stefan for unearthing this little gold-mine).

Glad to share.

[Grey Cloud]

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.
George Bernard Shaw

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about. Ideas, language, even the phrase "each other" doesn't make any sense.
Rumi

[CTJG 1986]

Well, this thread has come a long ways in a short time, and thanks to everyone who has contributed so far with their insightful ideas, interpretations and inspirations, reading through this thread has been very enlightening. I'll try to provide a brief summary of my views here though I apologize if it's a bit choppy as I'm not good at summarizing something so complex. (some of this has been touched on here already)

My view on human consciousness(or that of any sentient being) is that it doesn't exist, there is only universal consciousness and we simply are 'plugged in' to it, so to speak.

In the case of human beings our body's are simply biological vessels for this physical realm that carry our spirit or energy(consciousness) which powers both the biological vessel and our minds.

The human mind(or possibly the entire body) acts as an antenna of sorts and is capable of receiving that universal energy/consciousness and manipulating our connection with it in various ways .

Although most people are quite literally trapped within their own minds because they fail to understand the dynamics of this energy force that gives us life, consciousness and intellect there are those who are aware of the connection and have developed the ability to manipulate it to a great extent either for meditative or clairvoyant or other 'spiritual' purposes and such, or even for entertainment purposes.

One name that comes to mind when thinking of such individuals with that kind of control is Chris Angel the 'Mind Freak' - although there is a lot of basic 'smoke and mirrors' involved he does seemingly have the ability to push the limits of the human body and mind to an extent few others could ever dream of, or at least he's capable of projecting that he's doing such into other people's minds and making them truly believe it. At the very least I find him to be quite intriguing.

In my opinion it is this energy that upon the death of the human body returns to the plane of universal consciousness where it re-merges with the other 'spirits' in the 'afterlife'. The 'tunnel' with the bright light at the end often described in NDE's is the connection between our individual spirits and the universal energy field, when you reach the end of that connection and enter the 'light' you are re-merging with universal consciousness and once you cross that threshold there is no going back(physically at least).

Although I have come across many different names for this(or similar) spiritual plane of existence I myself usually simplistically refer it to as the 'other realm'.

Obviously my full views are far more complex and involve reincarnation and various other 'spiritual' aspects that I honestly don't think I could accurately convey in words. It all makes perfect sense in my mind, but I'm very bad at accurately conveying what's in my mind to others and I'd probably just confuse people, possibly confuse myself...

I will say that having grown up with a hyperactive mind I took an interest in meditative practices at a young age and if I could I would never return to this existence from the 'other realm' that I have visited, and I'm sure that others who have honed their abilities far more than I experience far greater things.

There is knowledge and then there is understanding, the 'other realm' is all about understanding and has little to do with what we would consider scientifically valid 'knowledge'. If that makes any sense.

Honestly, what I have come to understand about the universe from my experiences in this 'other realm' make little or no sense when I think about it based on the terms of this physical world. But then that doesn't really shock me.

To those who have never experienced it I highly recommend giving meditation a chance, though beware it can take years before you actually manage to get out of your own mind. I spent almost 4 years meditating for at least an hour a day before my first experience with the 'other realm', and I was literally days away from giving up on it at the time. I've always wondered if perhaps my planning to give up actually somehow enabled it to happen then.

But if you go into it being skeptical you won't get anything out of it and it will simply be a waste of your time. Apparently certain herbs and natural 'drugs' can assist in these experiences though I have never tried them for myself and can't vouch for any of them.

Well anyways I'm done sounding like a huge wacko for now, not that it's a new thing for me. I'm sure there are people around here who at least partially agree and understand some of what I'm saying and I hope to hear from them, but to be honest I'm more interested to hear from those who disagree.


Jonny

[bboyer]

Hi arc-us,
Writing 'I empty my mind' was somewhat misleading. I didn't mean it in the sense of meditating, it's more a case of when I'm on automatic pilot doing a no-brainer like waiting for the kettle to boil or putting away my socks. Usually when I'm doing such things I'm actively thinking about something but, as I said, rarely I'm not thinking of anything in particular and - pop - some though or concept just appears 'out of the blue'. This is a recent development of the last several months.

After a little bit of rest, it just popped into my head that, actually, we are on the same page with the highlighted part above, GC. I remembered the occasion that I had a similar ... shift ... to what you describe here. How I described it at the time was "finding my true [wordless / soundless] voice." Which seemed best described to me at the time, in after-the-fact contemplation of the phenomenon, as a sort of place of absolute sanctuary (albeit, "place" is misleading because there was/is no attribute of location involved). But all this without really naming it, just honoring - recognizing - it as it is, so to speak, without further need of embellishment or thought-form.

For example, If I'm in some sort of meaningful dialogue with self or others, and not just blathering inanely or "talking" to make social noise, then I recognized that if I took a moment to pause before verbally speaking, that wordless/soundless "answers" suddenly appear ... from the background, as it were ... and that "I" then translate that into typical verbal, sounded language (according to my learning and practice of language). That timeless, dimensionless, wordless, soundless background from which my concrete mental thought(s), images, and concepts, and subsequent speech, emerged from is one and the same with the Presence of which I speak.

A personal revelation was/is that it is this all-pervasive, permeating background presence which is ultimate, unconceived truth (e.g. The One), the source of our everyday relative truth(s) (e.g. the many, or the 10,000 things), and that it is the precise same source for everyone and everything. My dog as well as other nearby flora and fauna was a great help in my recognizing "it", too.

It's strange in a way - definitely different when done with awareness - because ... during a conversation, say ... one must become absolutely still, mentally, for an instant or two, whatever; and just ... listen. And watch, if one prefers. The answer, the bit of truth, the relevant thought, and so on just pops out like the colors of a budding flower.

And, if you know what I mean here, in some way it also serves as a BS detector. I find that real truth (vs relative "I" or "my" truths) is actually the same for us all, and has this common "background" source; it's weird but you can tell ... now, this is during a live, face-to-face conversation, I'm talking about ... but when you're connected in this way, with "background source", it's like having a built-in BS detector for the phoney crap that normally gets spouted.

Oh well. Enough, already.

[bboyer]

From my perspective you are on the same page, but both on a different side of that page.

After getting a little rest, I had a moment of personal clarity on the issue (see earlier posting).

Other glimpses like GC's of what you mention Arc-us,in my view are like this somewhat, it should be recognizable I hope:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGWU4QhJ ... re=related

I liked that scene, too. I found some semblance in it, if one considers the black frame surrounding the "observers" and the dynamic action being watched. "Benevolent force" ... "Benevolent Presence", or maybe even that which is presenting would have been more to the point[er], imo. Actually, neither benevolent nor malevolent; any adjectival appendage is simply anthropomorphic projection methinks (along the lines of Lloyd's "infinite caring") and is inappropriate.

ps. Forgive my intrusion

R U kidding?

[mague]

My view on human consciousness(or that of any sentient being) is that it doesn't exist, there is only universal consciousness and we simply are 'plugged in' to it, so to speak.

Not plugged. It is a twig out of a branch out of a stem. Mobile individuality is a ego based assumption. As Elijah mentioned, his son starts to recognize himself. It is no coincidence that this happens short after children discover their mobility and start to walk at 12+ months. A wireless notebook is still on a invisible rope. Its mobility is not exactly true, its always connected to the same net. Wired or wireless. The data it displays are emanations of the same internet consciousness


In the case of human beings our body's are simply biological vessels for this physical realm that carry our spirit or energy(consciousness) which powers both the biological vessel and our minds.

The body was designed in the consciousness and grows along the form of consciousness an is part of the consciousness. Mind is the local focus of this twig of consciousness to be able to carry out his task

The human mind(or possibly the entire body) acts as an antenna of sorts and is capable of receiving that universal energy/consciousness and manipulating our connection with it in various ways .

Antenna is nice, i d prefer an analogy like a leaf on a tree. Similar to photosynthesis the task is to transform low energetic space-time into higher energetic emo-spirit. This is the "stuff" the tree of consciousness requires to maintain itself and to grow. Tree is really a good analogy here. Manipulation of "stuff" outside of purpose is what they called black magic in the old days. An illegal action like dividing by zero. The focus lost its original intention and probably even turns into a counter productive "configuration".