So they call you a Crack Pot - Down under

[Jarvamundo]

sigh... Just another day in the life of a EU'r in an Astronomy forum.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/show ... hp?t=56226

I really don't understand how the process will change... (except for running to places like here of course).

Once a few "crack pots" are thrown in... the argument runs away.... logical arguments come second to towing the consensus line...

[starbiter]

This seems very painful. Are you developing calluses, or does the process produce scaring?

michael steinbacher

[nick c]

hi Jarvamundo,
I like the quote from "one on one" (Trevor):

As I recall, we have sent a number of probes to comets already (Giotto being the first) and golly gosh...they look a lot like balls of ice. But then again NASA and the other space agencies are probably in on the cover up.

Wow! What data is he looking at? Those fellows are misinformed and in denial. I don't know if any observation, test, and reasoning that you respond with, is going to change their minds.
But, good luck in your efforts. I guess that if maybe you open one mind, it is worth the effort.

Nick

[Jarvamundo]

A bit of insight for you....

I am now receiving private messages from that forums members saying:

Hey Alex,

Good on ya for arguing it out with the conservatives.

They were told (a theory of) how comets work when they were kids and they are sticking to it.

I have read enough to see that there is something different about at least some of the comets.
I am not sure why they don't see that there is just a fraction more to it than just dirty snowballs.

The majority of these messages are coming from forum members with less than 100 posts... ie new members...

The concern i have is when these new Amateur astronomers come to a place like this... they are lead by the noise of the consensus... even when they do not present logical arguments.

One of the guys trying to censor me in this "ngcles" "Les D" says

Does this "plasma" idea pass Occham's Razor -- not by any stretch of the imagination.

Now... he's an old bloke with 1,000+ posts....

but heres the clincher... HE IS A CONTRIBUTING EDITOR OF AUSTRALIAN SKY AND TELESCOPE MAGAZINE!

[Jarvamundo]

couldnt help myself

Les, you list that you are a contributing editor of Australian Sky and Telescope Magazine. If you are going to place that on your public profile, you have a responsibility to contribute some specific sources that are clear to this topic, and mentioned IEEE peer reviewed paper, as i have. I am sincerely interested if you have access to knowledge or information that i, or this audience, do not. </honest respectful request>

go for the top dog

[Jarvamundo]

Still no response at all to the science, not even from the dismissive editor. Valid question posted here in another thread http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... f=3&t=3078.

Exploring answers continues... Ya'd think if they put 1/2 the effort into some knowledgeable specifics it would be a shorter thread.

Since when did it become heresy for laymans to ask questions...

[jjohnson]

Well, lad, speaking as an amateur astronomer and old guy, I can tell you with the certainty of having been ignored by the US edition of Sky and Telescope's editors for the last 2 years, that, yes, it seems to be their policy that they will not talk with or discuss those scary, non-dogma-compliant ideas and questions that pop up annoyingly in their "Contact Us" e-mail boxes.
Rather than engage these fools ('damned fools') is probably more accurate) I have voted with my feet and canceled my subscription.
Non carborundum illegitamus.

[The Great Dog]

The Great Dog knows that each pack has its own alpha dog. It's a waste of time to pee on another pack's markings, because they will just pee right back over yours.

TGD

[MrAmsterdam]

The Great Dog knows that each pack has its own alpha dog. It's a waste of time to pee on another pack's markings, because they will just pee right back over yours.

Then please stop peeing arround TGD!

Jarvamundo, I read your forum posts. Believe me when I say that Im sure you sparkled some ones mind overthere. Good job!

Mr JJohnson, I do pay attention to you words. No worries

Ive been slapping arround on a dutch scientific forum. Floading them with observable facts and experiments...
Got kicked out...so join the gang...lol

[Jarvamundo]

Non carborundum illegitamus!

It's going on a t-shirt.... who wants one?

[MrAmsterdam]

Non carborundum illegitamus!

It's going on a t-shirt.... who wants one?

I want one with ; Non carborundum illegitamus and then in big letters underneath the word TESLA.

If you are seriously ordering tshirts.... let me know.

[Jarvamundo]

hmmm...might just have to now... *nudge* to TB funding team

heres a recent fav

[Tina]

Since when did it become heresy for layman to ask questions...

So they censored the discussion by locking the thread...

Now you know that it is definitely heresy for anyone to question orthodoxy! - it's a wonder we have made any scientific advances - just think how much we could advance if science knew what intellectual openness and honesty was.

[Siggy_G]

So they censored the discussion by locking the thread...

Now you know that it is definitely heresy for anyone to question orthodoxy! - it's a wonder we have made any scientific advances - just think how much we could advance if science knew what intellectual openness and honesty was.

Yeah, I've been looking through various (often old) forum threads on Plasma Cosmology or Electric Universe, and it's just an insane tendency that goes on. Some person questions mainstream models, with good reason and good argumentation, and then some veteran or person named Nereid comes in an tries to scientifically correct any statement. Then if the discussion carries on, they close the thread and ban the EU supporting member.

One thing I've noticed though, that any Electric Universe supporter should be aware of, is that external forum arguments may sometimes be thrown out prematurely or without enough basis. Hence they slam back with peer-reviewed material and dismiss the entire original argument as "crackpottery" etc. Feel free to throw yourself into discussions on those physics-whatever forums, but arm yourself with peer-reviewed material (Hannes Alfven, Birkeland etc.) and make sure to be in-line with the important arguments of Wallace Thornhill / the Thunderbolts project.

Another general argument they tend to use is: "science has progressed since then" or "those [referred to] papers are over 50 years old". Well, Einstein's papers, and most of the papers our physics are founded on, are more like 100 years old or more... And electrical engineering and plasma physics has progressed a lot since then, with experimental and escalating observational evidence. There's a lot to show from the last few years' findings and even NASA subtly admits the electrical and magnetic nature of all the data they gather.

[solrey]

Great advice by siggy:

Feel free to throw yourself into discussions on those physics-whatever forums, but arm yourself with peer-reviewed material (Hannes Alfven, Birkeland etc.) and make sure to be in-line with the important arguments of Wallace Thornhill / the Thunderbolts project.

One should consider the audience when presenting/discussing EU. Youtube vids are more appropriate for a facebook type crowd whereas a sciency crowd will tend to immediately dismiss youtube by default. Following siggy's advice on peer-reviewed material would be more appropriate for the scientific types. I also find it useful to dig up mainstream plasma physics papers, relating to research pertinent to the subject of the discussion, to support the EU stuff.

I'd like to offer some constructive criticism.
I really dig your enthusiasm jarvamundo, but honestly that youtube vid you linked, though it contained some excellent information the presentation of the material in the dialogue is rather "unprofessional". (no offense intended towards mnemeth1) Dialogue that includes "they lie, they're lying liars" is not really a great way to introduce EU to the un-initiated scientific types, even though I personally agree with the point being made.
I'm telling you this because I been there done that as an enthusiastic EU "newbie" in the past.
Lots of good papers here:
RECOVERED: Electric Universe Papers, etc.

I also want to offer my support and encouragement to continue plugging away on other forums jarvamundo.
We can tell the people that the emperor has no clothes but they won't believe it unless we teach them to see it for themselves.

peace,
Tim