Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[PersianPaladin]

Hi Moses,

In Worlds in Collision Dr Velikovsky discusses 4 Suns in the memory of humans. That would involve 4 reversals of rotation by my understanding. These events are difficult to date. I will not try. In between the reversals the movement of the Sun is interrupted repeatedly. The Sun rises or sets early or late. Of course the Sun would not change it's movement, Earth would. Each time the Earth reversed it's rotation, or changed it's movement, a slosh would be expected. The position of sea level would also probably change repeatedly.

Making sense of the geologic column is complicated. If the memories of our ancestors aren't fairy tales, the process was catastrophic, and recent, to a considerable depth. This is what i see in the field. The results are truly breathtaking.

michael

Hi Michael...what are your thoughts on this?

"The ages of the past, between the successive catastrophes, are called in many diverse sources “sun ages.” I have tried to show why this designation is meaningful.(1) But the ancients also maintained that the successive ages were initiated by planets: Moon, Saturn, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Mars. Therefore the sun-ages could also have been called planet ages."
http://www.varchive.org/itb/planages.htm

It appears to me that the cultures who record "4 suns" are obviously older than the ones who recorded planetary ages as numbering the "seven" planets. Thus, it could be argued that each planet was very bright in our skies at the time, and also involved in reshaping the Earth via earthquake, flood, and lightning.

I've been reading some religious scripture of late - namely the Muslim holy book, and it mentions "seven Earths" in the same sentence as "seven planets". This seems to tally with what Velikovsky says about each of these planets having an influence on Earth as a bright sun-like star - as well as suggest it was involved in reshaping the entire Earth anew.

Hi PP,

In Worlds in Collision Dr Velikovsky speaks of a reversal of the Suns motion during events associated with Venus. Later in the V archive he attributes the last reversal of earth's rotation to events with Mars.

http://www.varchive.org/dag/cevil.htm

I try to keep an open mind concerning dates and agents. Apparently there were many agents. Claiming dates more recent than 10,000 years ago seems safe to me. The last reversal could have been March 23, -687. Or not. But from what i see in the field, the Earth reversed it's rotation causing waters to rush poleward from the equator. The water appears to have been covered with oil from an external source. I used some of this oil to drive to Starbucks earlier for coffee.

michael

I think your approach is a careful and prudent one - as it is harder to connect the dots if you try to follow more than one or two agents (i.e. Mars and Venus). All we know is that there were most likely several events and world-ages that tallied with the seven planets - but we can't talk about the specific effects or catastrophes that most of them wrought. The passage of Venus, however - and the rough time-scales that conform to it are probably the events with the most global agreement between cultures. Multiple "slosh" events, as you say, seem to have occurred as well as electrical discharges and powerful global winds. I am still yet to finish reading your NPA paper, but I think it's a great piece of work.

[starbiter]

A friend and i are planing a few one and two day trips around northern and central California to look at rocks. Death Valley, the Owens Valley, Yosemite Valley, Sutter Buttes and Lassen Volcanic National Park are areas of interest. Wrong turns are anticipated. There is room for one or two in our car. Other cars are welcome to join.

michael

steinbac@ix.netcom.com

[seasmith]

satellite fossil beds

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/v ... c=eoa-iotd



http://www.wsgs.uwyo.edu/research/strat ... fault.aspx

[starbiter]

satellite fossil beds

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/v ... c=eoa-iotd



http://www.wsgs.uwyo.edu/research/strat ... fault.aspx

Hello Seasmith,

It appears the fossils were sloshed and or duned over. Then it appears something removed some of the covering material. I imagine a retreating sea being pulled back to the equator after a disruption of rotation. Or an electrical event removing anything loose [unconsolidated]. Then slow erosion today reveals creatures that were rapidly entombed under recent catastrophic conditions, IMHO.

Thanks for the image,

michael

[starbiter]

Table Mountain in CA is a great example of the power of volcanism in action.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_Moun ... alifornia)

http://goo.gl/maps/4Eld1

http://www.mcremo.com/california.html

[...]


The artifacts from these deep mine shafts and tunnels were apparently of great antiquity. Some of the more significant discoveries were made at Table Mountain in Tuolumne County. There miners dug vertical tunnels that penetrated through layers of volcanic deposits to reach the auriferous gravels. Or they dug horizontal tunnels that ran below the volcanic deposits. The auriferous gravels lay in old river channels. Norris and Webb (1990, pp. 90-93) give the geological history of the region. During the Eocene, rivers cut channels into the bedrock of the Sierra Nevada. These channels became filled with gravels containing gold. In the late Oligocene, the Eocene river channels were covered with thick deposits of rhyolitic volcanic ash, which now forms a pinkish rock. New rivers cut channels into these deposits. At Table Mountain in Tuolumne County, the new river channel was filled by a flow of latite (some earlier geologists called it basalt). This flow occurred in the Miocene. Geologists obtained potassium argon dates of about 9 million years for the Table Mountain latite. Later, the softer material on the sides of the latite flow was worn away by erosion, leaving the harder volcanic deposits. So at Table Mountain we have three hundred feet of Miocene latite covering Oligocene rhyolitic tuffs, which in turn cover the old Eocene river channels containing the auriferous gravels. According to Slemmons (1966, p. 200), the auriferous gravels are at least 30 million years old. If the gravels belong to the early Eocene, they could be as much as 50-55 million years old. The principal discoveries of human bones and artifacts came from the very lowest levels of the auriferous gravels near the bedrock.

me again,

What i find incredible about this is the official source of the latite/basalt cap of the formations. It is supposed to have flowed from an area South of Susanville CA.

http://goo.gl/maps/N5st5

http://goo.gl/maps/Ck3Tl It's reported the flow reached Vacaville, CA.

http://specialpapers.gsapubs.org/conten ... 1.abstract

[...]
The Lovejoy flowed through a paleovalley across the northern end of the Sierra Nevada to the Sacramento Valley, a distance of 240 km. Approximately 150 km3 of basalt were erupted over a span of only a few centuries. Our age dates for the Lovejoy basalt cluster are near 15.4 Ma and suggest that it is coeval with the 16.1–15.0 Ma Imnaha and Grande Ronde flows of the Columbia River Basalt Group.

Me again,

That's a flow of almost 150 miles. It had to flow in a horizontal manner going down hill, obeying the force of gravity. Today we find flat mesas of basalt with deep valleys dividing the mesas. If the valleys were there when the flow happened they would have been filled with basalt due to gravity. If the valleys were filled with basalt, the basalt would still be there. A valley full of basalt would not be easily eroded. The sides of the canyons are covered in basalt. If the basalt flowed horizontally along the surface and then the valleys eroded away, the walls of the canyon shouldn't be basalt covered. It appears that the basalt arrived from above while dust was heated to a point of incandescence by an electrical river of fire. If the red hot dust landed in running water it would cool off and be flushed away. If the molten dust landed on a solid surface it would accumulate. The electrical activity associated with the proposed plasma event might keep the fresh material hot. If the material becomes thick enough it might flow if the surface is steep. Anything of this nature would be misconstrued as volcanic by geologists. They don't have an external source of heat because of their electrical ignorance.

http://www.creationhistory.com/CalaverasSkull.shtml Additional info on nearby formations.


I don't think the objects found under the basalt are millions of years old as some of the articles propose. I think the basalt is young.

The year of the event is not important. The agent that caused the basalt is also not the key question. The fact that the events are historic, recorded by people from around the world in written and oral tradition is key. This history makes it possible to reverse engineer what is described in Worlds in Collision. The results cover our planet to a great depth.

michael steinbacher

[Goldminer]

Good work, my man! Apparently, conventional thinking does not have to obey any physical rules, or be logical, for that matter!

[starbiter]

Andreas Otte has written about oil and coal on www.eu-geology.com . He addresses the problems with existing models and offers EU alternatives.

http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=317

[starbiter]

The complete geology tour video is now availabe for free at EU-geology.com

EU-geology.com

[601L1n9FR09]

Hey Michael,
Just took the tour and loved it! I give it two thumbs up and only wish I had more thumbs. I know I spend most my time lurking in this forum. I might get baited into over defending DR. V. or Young Earth Creationism (which is tolerated for the most part but not generally appreciated). Being almost an eighth grade graduate, my input may be of value in as much as it might let you know how we unwashed, under-educated folk comprehend your ideas and/or your approach to explaining them. Er...looks good to me for what that is worth .
Electric Geology. I think I will be lurking a bit closer now.

JD
call me FROG

[starbiter]

Hey Michael,
Just took the tour and loved it! I give it two thumbs up and only wish I had more thumbs. I know I spend most my time lurking in this forum. I might get baited into over defending DR. V. or Young Earth Creationism (which is tolerated for the most part but not generally appreciated). Being almost an eighth grade graduate, my input may be of value in as much as it might let you know how we unwashed, under-educated folk comprehend your ideas and/or your approach to explaining them. Er...looks good to me for what that is worth .
Electric Geology. I think I will be lurking a bit closer now.

JD
call me FROG

Hello JD,

Thanks for the kind words. Try to join me in the field some day.

The surface of our planet seems quite young down to quite a depth. Beyond that i'm not sure of the age.

Defending Dr. Velikovsky is not a vice in my book.

michael

[starbiter]

My vision of the duning process has morphed. The process starts with duning. Then the material becomes red-hot [molten] as the current density increases, according to witnesses. The dust was mingled with the river of fire [plasma]. The material would stick to the windward side of the dunes. Nothing goes over the ridge and down the slipface. The material grew back and up, into the direction of the wind. The opposite of duning. A reverse dune. Basalt, granite, and dolomite.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=p ... 41&bih=584

I was blind, now i can see.

reverse duney

[moses]

Does this mean that you will give up the word 'dune' ? I don't think that 'reverse duney' is much chop, although it would be good in Australia for giving you a nick-name. I won't posit a name for the process, that might put you off re-naming it.

But you are now getting very close to my model of the process.
Mo

[starbiter]

Hello Moses,

The process seems to start with duning in many cases. Then as the current density increases the dust becomes molten and the direction of growth reverses. The process creates a dune shape with cross bedding.

The image below shows reverse duning, IMO. It appears the current density varied, producing more and less molten layers. If You X the image the map is quite cool.

http://goo.gl/maps/u8SVx

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=U ... 61111&z=14

This area above is interesting. The basalt in the lower right is much thicker. This seems to be from the air. Possibly considered tuff.


The material on the map below seems to have been deposited from the air during an electrical event.

http://goo.gl/maps/6yIVz

The shape of the formation linked below seems to be from duning, not molten deposition. Hydrology would have created the drainages during the process. Then the dune was probably coated with molten material. The wind direction seems to have changed in some cases.

http://goo.gl/maps/YryMa

The magnetic anomaly map below shows the remnant of two high energy plasma vortices over Four Corners and Texas, IMHO. The area around Monterrey, Mexico is on the edge of the TX event, it appears.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/sm/mag_map/mag_s.pdf

michael

[moses]

The material on the map below seems to have been deposited from the air during an electrical event.

I have laminated deposition. But you would be right in what you describe. I was only trying to stir you up. I don't know why. But I will remain opposed to the word 'duning'.

Keep up the good work.
Cheers,
Mo

[starbiter]

Below is a link to my recent EU talk in Alb.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... BYc28/edit

There is no copy for the images. I prefer winging it.

Page 13 shows a ring of granitic and metamorphic mountains that somewhat corresponds with the magnetic anomaly map.



http://pubs.usgs.gov/sm/mag_map/mag_s.pdf

The link below has maps that show the depth to bed rock. The NE area of AZ has thin sediments covering bedrock. The area might have been melted by the alleged vortex. The area towards the SW has mountains rising above flat sediments. The sediments are very deep. The deeper the sediments, the less confidence in the accuracy, but either way the sediments are quite deep. The mountains seem to be islands that were surrounded by deep water. Massive amounts of sediment seems to have filled the water creating the flat desert we find today. This would fit a scenario similar to the Worlds in Collision narrative. Dust covering the islands, causing growth. Dust running into the water during the process. A slosh from the equator injecting the region with slurry. Water returning to the equator eroding the fresh material.

http://azgeology.azgs.az.gov/archived_i ... e_co2.html



michael