Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[starbiter]

The formation below is just S of Lancaster CA. It's a small road cut. Goldminer first pointed this out to me.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=U ... 00191&z=19

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... o1Y28/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... ZaMm8/edit

The twisted layers appear to be metamorphic. I propose in-situ electrification.

michael

[GaryN]

I'm under the impression most of these formations are in-situ electrical metamorphic.

You'll get no argument from me with that statement, michael! Trying to identify the precise nature of the electrical forces involved though is difficult, they would no doubt be chaotic and likely very localised sometimes, and any radiometric dating would show a wide range of ages, as has been noted in some formations.

I was wondering about pebbles, cobbles and boulders down that way, and there are some in the river beds.

Wilson Canyon

Bigger:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7IHI6sTAwzo/S ... 0_0686.JPG

Rounded rocks in a river? Now that makes sense you'd (maybe) say, water flowing over them for extended periods of time, tumbling down river and being smoothed, chemical action. What I can't tell from a photo though is the composition of those rounded rocks, and that is I think very important. In my area I can see they can be of compositions not found in the river valleys where they are located, but we have glaciation to solve that problem. If the composition of those round rocks in a Nevada creek were to be found to be other than what is available in the canyon, are we then going to say that there must have been glaciers in Nevada that brought them in from a remote region? Or have they been formed in-situ? Maybe you might do a little snooping for me next time you are in a river bed? Pretty please?

[starbiter]

The formation below is just S of Lancaster CA. It's a small road cut. Goldminer first pointed this out to me.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=U ... 00191&z=19

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... o1Y28/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... ZaMm8/edit

The twisted layers appear to be metamorphic. I propose in-situ electrification.

michael

This formation/road cut, is well known. It's claimed the San Andreas Fault caused the faulting and folding. No mention is made of metamorphic rock. Just folded sedimentary rock. I have a hard time seeing faulting and folding causing this formation.

I need to click on the map link twice to see the road cut. When the cut appears in maps there is a galaxy/hurricane shape to the formation. The photograph misses it. Silly photographer.

It appears to my electric eyes that a current traveled through this formation, twisting and sorting the layers into a spiral galaxy shape.

The institutional staff is bringing my sedative now.

michael

[starbiter]

The formation linked below shows the welded tuff process of mountain formation.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... 9WM2M/edit

There is a dark layer in the foreground. Above the lower dark layer is another dark layer. Above that are alternating layers of dark and light rock. I believe the dark layers are the result of increased current density during the deposition process. The images below show the formation from the side. You can zoom in quite a bit to see the details.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... J4aTA/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... ZIeXc/edit


The map below shows the layers clearly. It's possible to look at the formation from different angles using the upper left circle. The photographs from the side show the layers more clearly than the map.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=U ... 3,70.644,0

The map below shows the mountain shape.

http://goo.gl/maps/Fu1bz

michael

[GaryN]

Hi Michael, was just looking at this image, you can enlarge it, and was trying to figure out mechanically what happened here. If you move up the lower layers so they line up, then the layers above would not line up, and that lighter, thick band would not be the same thickness as the bands at either side. What am I not understanding? Help!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ali_e/9258 ... /lightbox/

[starbiter]

Hi Michael, was just looking at this image, you can enlarge it, and was trying to figure out mechanically what happened here. If you move up the lower layers so they line up, then the layers above would not line up, and that lighter, thick band would not be the same thickness as the bands at either side. What am I not understanding? Help!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ali_e/9258 ... /lightbox/

This is really difficult Gary.

I'm GUESSING the area is from a slosh of sediment. It could also be from blowing dust, or blowing molten dust, but i doubt it.

There seems to be a greenish layer that's not disturbed, 1/3 from the top. Below the greenish layer the central area seems to have fallen. The tan layer below the greenish layer could have filled in the gap if it was liquid creating a smooth layer for the greenish layer to grow. The process seems to repeat above the greenish layer. It's as if the formation was pulled apart, and sank in the middle twice. There is a small amount of red material just below the greenish area, in the middle, but much less than the other layers.

What is Your best guess?

It would be good to walk around the area before speculating. I'm really guessing here.

michael

[GaryN]

I don't really have a best guess on that one Michael, I'm just going to have to accept that strange things can happen over millions or billions of years, and leave it at that. Walk about would be good, but maybe Venezuela may tempt me more?



http://www.cruzine.com/2011/05/13/table ... venezuela/

Time, lots of time...

[starbiter]

I don't really have a best guess on that one Michael, I'm just going to have to accept that strange things can happen over millions or billions of years, and leave it at that. Walk about would be good, but maybe Venezuela may tempt me more?



http://www.cruzine.com/2011/05/13/table ... venezuela/

Time, lots of time...

I think the formations are sandstone and quartzite.

http://www.planeta.com/planeta/97/0897canaima.html

"The geological history of the area is only superficially understood. There are three main geological formations. The oldest is an underlying igneous-metamorphic basement formed some 1.2-3.6 billion years ago whilst South America was joined to Africa as the supercontinent Gondwanaland. Between 1.6 and 1 billion years ago, this was overlain with a sedimentary cover. The first of these formations is too deeply buried to be visible within the park, but second (known as the Roraima Group) forms the basis of the area's extraordinary topography (Huber 1995). It consists of quartzite and sandstone strata which were probably laid down in shallow seas or large inland lakes (Briceño et al. 1990) during the Pre-Cambrian period. Lastly, during Palaeozoic and Mesozoic times magma repeatedly penetrated the existing sediments forming intrusive rocks which are typically diabases, and to a lesser extent granites."

Me again,

The fact that there is sandstone and metamorphic sandstone [quartzite] implies an oscillating current density to me. The quartzite being produced during increased current density. The missing areas in some cases could be when the current density was even lower, so that the incoming material was dirt, not sandstone or quartzite. The area receives great amounts of rain causing erosion, especially with dirt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartzite

The image from Your link above titled RORAI83 by Paulo Liebert reminds me of places in the western US where the current density oscillated.

http://www.cruzine.com/2011/05/13/table ... venezuela/ Gary's link Just before half way down.

So a cap rock of varying degrees of hardness caused by incoming dust being heated and sorted by the river of fire. The force was strong there. The diabase and granite mentioned in the article above would be part of the electrical sorting of airborne material, in my twisted mind.

I'm assuming the area was flooded up to the bottom of the cap rock. Otherwise those areas would have also grown, and be topped with a cap rock.

The formations might be very young geologically speaking. Certainly less than 10,000 years in my model. More likely between 3,500 and 3,000 years ago. I'm leaning towards an even shortened chronology because of my friend Andreas Otte. If i'm misrepresenting his position he can correct me. And the date doesn't really matter, other than recently.

michael

[moses]

Maybe these Venezuelan formations were produced by big electrical currents travelling through the layered sediment. And then later the softer sediment was eroded away by water, but the electrically hardened rock remained.

I am not sure whether you guys are saying this or not. It does lend itself to there being three events. The laying down of the sediment, by laminated flow in my view, and then tremendous lightning, which may mave occured at the same time as the lamination, and then a flood which might have come pretty soon after the lamination whilst the sediment still held considerable water.

Cheers,
Mo

[starbiter]

Maybe these Venezuelan formations were produced by big electrical currents travelling through the layered sediment. And then later the softer sediment was eroded away by water, but the electrically hardened rock remained.

I am not sure whether you guys are saying this or not. It does lend itself to there being three events. The laying down of the sediment, by laminated flow in my view, and then tremendous lightning, which may mave occured at the same time as the lamination, and then a flood which might have come pretty soon after the lamination whilst the sediment still held considerable water.

Cheers,
Mo

Hi Mo,

Telluric currents could certainly be a factor in the process. I see what appears to be the result of current running under the surface in the field.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 005#p90375

There also seems to have been high current density during deposition. Twisted layers seem to be a marker with telluric currents. The process of understanding electric geology is just beginning.

michael

[moses]

The Venezuelan formations look like fulgurites to me. So the electric current goes up-down rather than parallel to the surface. But I have no problem with there being big telluric currents.
Cheers,
Mo

[GaryN]

The process of understanding electric geology is just beginning.

But how far are you willing to go? Is the EU ready to stick its neck out and start identifying specific geological features as being due to certain electrical processes that, although accepted by electrical or plasma engineers would be ridiculed by geologists? This is an important question, as the magnitude of the energies suggested by such claims is going to put them in the "no, that couldn't be!" class. Not large energies compared to those we know are occurring elsewhere in the observable universe, but couldn't possibly have happened on Earth?

Well we need to start with some broad classifications and then refine them to match as many of the observed geological features as we can. At least one geologist has accepted that arc discharges can cause the shattered rock on mountain tops, so that's a start. We see St.Elmos fire at higher elevations, but it can also be observed lower down when the electric field gradient is sufficient. So we have glow mode discharges. Dark mode currents may be flowing from many places all the time, but how do we detect them?

Electrons being 'sucked out' , one from a hilltop, in glow mode, one from ocean surface, in arc mode.
(Oops, 2 extra little images at the bottom, also St.Elmos effects.)



I think a thread dedicated to trying to match observed geological features to known ES or EM processes may have to reside in the New Insights domain, for a while longer anyway, as ion etching, inductive heating, EMP metamorphosis, and others, might still be seen as rather radical?

@moses

The Venezuelan formations look like fulgurites to me.

My classification would have fulgurites as arc mode discharge events in a sandy soil type material, and the Venezuelan mountain tops as having been from strong, longer duration glow mode. Arc mode discharges are most likeley to have predominantly shattering effects, but that is the type of thing we need to discuss in a dedicated thread, IMO.

[starbiter]

The process of understanding electric geology is just beginning.

But how far are you willing to go? Is the EU ready to stick its neck out and start identifying specific geological features as being due to certain electrical processes that, although accepted by electrical or plasma engineers would be ridiculed by geologists? This is an important question, as the magnitude of the energies suggested by such claims is going to put them in the "no, that couldn't be!" class. Not large energies compared to those we know are occurring elsewhere in the observable universe, but couldn't possibly have happened on Earth?

Well we need to start with some broad classifications and then refine them to match as many of the observed geological features as we can. At least one geologist has accepted that arc discharges can cause the shattered rock on mountain tops, so that's a start. We see St.Elmos fire at higher elevations, but it can also be observed lower down when the electric field gradient is sufficient. So we have glow mode discharges. Dark mode currents may be flowing from many places all the time, but how do we detect them?

Electrons being 'sucked out' , one from a hilltop, in glow mode, one from ocean surface, in arc mode.
(Oops, 2 extra little images at the bottom, also St.Elmos effects.)



I think a thread dedicated to trying to match observed geological features to known ES or EM processes may have to reside in the New Insights domain, for a while longer anyway, as ion etching, inductive heating, EMP metamorphosis, and others, might still be seen as rather radical?

@moses

The Venezuelan formations look like fulgurites to me.

My classification would have fulgurites as arc mode discharge events in a sandy soil type material, and the Venezuelan mountain tops as having been from strong, longer duration glow mode. Arc mode discharges are most likeley to have predominantly shattering effects, but that is the type of thing we need to discuss in a dedicated thread, IMO.

Hi Gary,

I've been sticking my neck out on this thread for some time now. All sorts of formations have been discussed. Most of the formations discussed are from blowing material, or sloshed material. I consider the wind to be electrical. Some of the time the wind is hot enough [river of fire] to melt the airborne material.

On some occasions after deposition, areas seem to be electrically altered. I've posted about that also. But i haven't seen a valley or canyon that appears to be created that way. Just altered. The Black Canyon of the Gunnison is a good example.

http://goo.gl/maps/CpxBM

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... ZNLUU/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... VEOE0/edit

The dark rock is metamorphic. The light colored veins are granite that's almost all crystal [pegmatite]. This was changed and warped by electricity IMO. But the canyon wasn't carved out electrically. Just metamorphosed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Cany ... ional_Park

This process is more subtle than lightning bolts ripping out canyons, but still highly electrical.

I assume the whole area was sloshed by the Colorado River flowing N during a change in Earth's rotation. The areas above the canyon look sloshed to me. Then the waters were drawn back to the equator. That process would have cleaned out the sediments in the canyon.

michael

[starbiter]

Maybe these Venezuelan formations were produced by big electrical currents travelling through the layered sediment. And then later the softer sediment was eroded away by water, but the electrically hardened rock remained.

I am not sure whether you guys are saying this or not. It does lend itself to there being three events. The laying down of the sediment, by laminated flow in my view, and then tremendous lightning, which may mave occured at the same time as the lamination, and then a flood which might have come pretty soon after the lamination whilst the sediment still held considerable water.

Cheers,
Mo

I see vertical telluric currents at play in the rocks. These seem to produce kimberlite pipes. The center of these formation have diamonds. Surrounding the diamonds are gold deposits in some cases.

The reports of an extended period of darkness caused by blowing dust, gravel, rocks and boulders should be taken into account, IMHO. This would produce a welded tuff type of formation, which i see in the field. This happened when the formations were surrounded by a massive flood. The difference between welded tuff like formations and slosh formations is stark, not subtle.

michael

[GaryN]

Nice image michael.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... VEOE0/edit

Those quartz veins are 3d internal 'lightning' in my description. The event that tore out the canyon was electrical, on a huge scale. Quartz is supposedly formed the same way as other veins:

In geology, a vein is a distinct sheetlike body of crystallized minerals within a rock. Veins form when mineral constituents carried by an aqueous solution within the rock mass are deposited through precipitation. The hydraulic flow involved is usually due to hydrothermal circulation.

Hydrothermal circulation, aqueous solutions. Don't buy it, many of the veins are dead-ends, no circulation possible. Gold was supposedly the same process, but there are alternative explanations:

Earthquakes make gold veins in an instant.
Pressure changes cause precious metal to deposit each time the crust moves.
http://www.nature.com/news/earthquakes- ... nt-1.12615
If Earthquakes are producing high frequency piezo-electric induced currents, then perhaps there is yet another explanation?