Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[moses]

Michael, the geological column has fossils of creatures that don't exist today, and it is unimaginable that they existed on Venus or Mars in Velikovskian interactions with Earth. So these sediments were laid down well before then. Because the Cambrian rocks, the first rocks of the geological column, have fairly sophisticated fossils it is quite likely that these creatures came, with their associated sediments, from another planet.

But to think that the Cambrian sediments came from Venus or Mars fairly recently just muddles the situation. The Earth was very likely in a different position in relation to the other planets when the Cambrian rocks were formed. Thus the Earth experienced a great deal before the Velikovsky interactions.
Mo

[starbiter]

Michael, the geological column has fossils of creatures that don't exist today, and it is unimaginable that they existed on Venus or Mars in Velikovskian interactions with Earth. So these sediments were laid down well before then. Because the Cambrian rocks, the first rocks of the geological column, have fairly sophisticated fossils it is quite likely that these creatures came, with their associated sediments, from another planet.

But to think that the Cambrian sediments came from Venus or Mars fairly recently just muddles the situation. The Earth was very likely in a different position in relation to the other planets when the Cambrian rocks were formed. Thus the Earth experienced a great deal before the Velikovsky interactions.
Mo

Hello Moses: Can You point to a statement i made implying that fossils came from Venus or Mars? If not, there is a very large problem with your last post. The material in the proposed sloshes would have come from Mars and Venus. These sloshes would be the top layers of the geologic column. According to legend, myth, and Dr Velikovsky there were earlier events. Some of the earlier events could have involved Saturn or Jupiter.

The fossils would most likely come from the oceans and seas of Earth. It's hard to rule out fossils from Venus and Mars, but i've never considered this in my model.


Just because geologists have named and dated the layers of the geologic column doesn't mean they own the truth.

The "Velikovsky interactions" concern much more than the Venus and Mars events. They go back to the Saturnian system, and the great flood. See www.varchive.org Please try to understand the positions of Dr Velikovsky before you describe them. He was misquoted many times in the past. More confusion isn't required.

michael

[moses]

Hi again michael.
So the sediments from Venus and Mars produced the top layers of the geological column and any fossils were likely to have come from Earth. The sediment from the lower levels of the geological column came from earlier interactions which you are claiming as 'Velikovskian'. Whereas I see them as probably much earlier.

So whether we ascribe the planetary interactions as Velikovskian, depends on if there was a stable period between the earlier interactions and the Venus, Mars group of interactions. I think that is fair enough. Then the major difference between us is just the mountain building mechanism.

Also I would like to add that I think that the lower sediment of the geological column was formed from non random planetary interactions, where Earth and another planet moved closer together keeping their regular orbital positions and a large Birkeland Current flowed between them and probably past them, and this caused the formation of the laminated sediment. And this configuration recurred so that there were a few such separate episodes of laminated deposition. Thus a considerably different mechanism to the Venus and Mars interactions.
Mo

[starbiter]

Hi Moses,

In Worlds in Collision Dr Velikovsky discusses 4 Suns in the memory of humans. That would involve 4 reversals of rotation by my understanding. These events are difficult to date. I will not try. In between the reversals the movement of the Sun is interrupted repeatedly. The Sun rises or sets early or late. Of course the Sun would not change it's movement, Earth would. Each time the Earth reversed it's rotation, or changed it's movement, a slosh would be expected. The position of sea level would also probably change repeatedly.

Making sense of the geologic column is complicated. If the memories of our ancestors aren't fairy tales, the process was catastrophic, and recent, to a considerable depth. This is what i see in the field. The results are truly breathtaking.

michael

[starbiter]

The link below has details about the geology tour after NPA 19.

http://www.worldnpa.org/site/event/?eventid=545

michael

[moses]

I have a question for you michael.
Were the Rocky Mountains formed before the last ice age of afterwards, or even during. I have been looking at moraine evidence but then I thought of you.
Mo

[starbiter]

I have a question for you michael.
Were the Rocky Mountains formed before the last ice age of afterwards, or even during. I have been looking at moraine evidence but then I thought of you.
Mo

Hello Moses: Nice to hear from You. It's hard to say for sure. My money would be on during. The Rockies seem like dunes of conglomerate in many cases. This would fit the plague of darkness, as described in Worlds in Collision. Dr Velikovsky claimed ice ages would only happen if the oceans were heated, while the air is cold. If the oceans cool there is less evaporation, hence no ice age. No glaciers or ice sheet. The air was chilled by dust preventing light from reaching the surface of Earth, during the world wide catastrophes. The oceans were warmed by friction, due to changes in rotation. Electricity might play a roll in heating the oceans. The dates for this event might be quite recent. Geologists wouldn't have a clue, without the EU model as a guide. The melting would be quite rapid when the dust and gasses settled. It's still going on today, it seems.

michael

[moses]

Yes, there were a lot of glaciers in the Rockies whether they were still flat ground or whether they were raised or formed, as in your view.

Which brings me to my view about the Earth being in a very elliptical orbit which it seems you have not read. Here it is if you feel inclined to read it:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 431#p68380
Mo

[starbiter]

Hello Moses,

Sorry for the delayed response. I was in Albuquerque for NPA 19, then of an extensive geology tour.

An elliptical orbit might produce ice ages as You propose, IMO. I try to keep an open mind.


On the other hand, i'm pretty comfortable with Dr Velikovsky's version of ice ages. Friction [and maybe electrical events] causes the warming of the oceans, causing evaporation, while dust and gases cause cool temperature over land by blocking sunlight. The combination would cause the rapid forming of glaciers that would melt quickly when the atmosphere cleared up.

michael

[moses]

Hello Michael,
I hope your geology tour went well, and one day I might venture back to America for a conference and tour.

I am not too comfortable discussing my theories on this Planetary Science board, because they do get pretty wild, I must admit. However, I think that the Younger Dryas is a planetary interaction which would have caused a lot of melting and evaporation, and then some glaciation after that, as Velikovsky described. But what I am describing is the formation of all the ice on Antarctica and the Arctic, and the ice ages are just incidental to this. Perhaps a lot of the initial ice/water came from space, electrically deposited, though.

It's good to have you back.
Mo

[starbiter]

While visiting the Grand Canyon recently it seemed as if hydrology played a role in the shape of the canyon. The map below shows the canyon.

http://goo.gl/maps/8leVb

If you'll notice, the canyons, when measured from the river, are much deeper on the North side of the river. Most of the drainage on both the North Rim, and South Rim is to the SW.

It's easy to see the drainage patterns leading to the long canyons, leading to the Colorado River below.

http://goo.gl/maps/mEGWb

The South Rim shown on the map below is very different.

http://goo.gl/maps/HXtc5

The drainage is also SW, away from the canyon. The canyons leading to the river are much smaller. Rain or melting snow would not produce enough water to create these side canyons. The drainages are too small. Only an ocean covering the area would provide enough water to remove the fresh soft sediments. As an inland sea or ocean there would be very little current. As the Earth began to rotate again after a change in polarity [at least in this scenario] the water level would start to drop. As the water dropped below the level of the land a flood would ensue, especially where the land was steep. The above maps show the different stages of the flood. Where the canyons are small the flood was brief and weak. Where the canyons start to grow the current was stronger. After the event an electrical event running through the river seems to have lithified the material, creating cliffs in the process. The canyon might have silted in when the area was submerged, but the waters returning to the equator would flush the fresh material South. The bottom of the river contains huge boulders to big to be flushed South.

If You click file, then download with any of these images you'll get a nice large file that can be zoomed into quite a bit.


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... ZmZGM/edit I like the mountains sticking up above the flat sediment in the background. Slosh surrounding dune/mountains, possibly.



If the formation started off as a mountain and a massive thunderbolt ripped the canyon like a Licthenberg pattern the hydrology shouldn't be a factor, as it appears to be.

michael

[starbiter]

Below is a link for Google Maps showing a formation known as the Hog Back in western Colorado. Please zoom out for perspective.

http://goo.gl/maps/MQUmK

An image link is below,

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... RON28/edit

The formation appears to be a dune trending to the SW. This pattern of a Hog Back seems to be related to a beach deposit.

The vertical walls in the photograph don't follow the trending pattern, or layering of the dune/mountain. I couldn't figure out what would have caused this pattern. My friend Andreas Otte looked at the ridges and stated they were the result of the Wallacoaster. This is an apparent electrical excavation that goes over ridges, first noticed by Dr Scott Wall, hence the Wallacoaster.

The pattern goes up and over ridges for miles on the SW side of the Hog Back as seen below.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=U ... 2,74.863,0

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=U ... 2,74.863,0


The SW side of the formation appears to have been zapped by something moving to the North. The Hog Back got in the way. Material was removed, and rock cliffs were created. This is what electrical excavation seems to produce.

michael

[starbiter]

There will be a SW USA geology tour after the EU conference in Albuquerque. We will leave Alb. on the 7th and return on the 16th of Jan. NM, AZ, CA, and NV will probably be covered. Possibly one day prior to the conference on the 2nd will be a day for a local trip. The area is interesting, but might be snow covered.

I'll try to scout the area prior to the trip. I've been to the region earlier, but the model has evolved since.

Contact is simple through www.eu-geology.com

[PersianPaladin]

Hi Moses,

In Worlds in Collision Dr Velikovsky discusses 4 Suns in the memory of humans. That would involve 4 reversals of rotation by my understanding. These events are difficult to date. I will not try. In between the reversals the movement of the Sun is interrupted repeatedly. The Sun rises or sets early or late. Of course the Sun would not change it's movement, Earth would. Each time the Earth reversed it's rotation, or changed it's movement, a slosh would be expected. The position of sea level would also probably change repeatedly.

Making sense of the geologic column is complicated. If the memories of our ancestors aren't fairy tales, the process was catastrophic, and recent, to a considerable depth. This is what i see in the field. The results are truly breathtaking.

michael

Hi Michael...what are your thoughts on this?

"The ages of the past, between the successive catastrophes, are called in many diverse sources “sun ages.” I have tried to show why this designation is meaningful.(1) But the ancients also maintained that the successive ages were initiated by planets: Moon, Saturn, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Mars. Therefore the sun-ages could also have been called planet ages."
http://www.varchive.org/itb/planages.htm

It appears to me that the cultures who record "4 suns" are obviously older than the ones who recorded planetary ages as numbering the "seven" planets. Thus, it could be argued that each planet was very bright in our skies at the time, and also involved in reshaping the Earth via earthquake, flood, and lightning.

I've been reading some religious scripture of late - namely the Muslim holy book, and it mentions "seven Earths" in the same sentence as "seven planets". This seems to tally with what Velikovsky says about each of these planets having an influence on Earth as a bright sun-like star - as well as suggest it was involved in reshaping the entire Earth anew.

[starbiter]

Hi Moses,

In Worlds in Collision Dr Velikovsky discusses 4 Suns in the memory of humans. That would involve 4 reversals of rotation by my understanding. These events are difficult to date. I will not try. In between the reversals the movement of the Sun is interrupted repeatedly. The Sun rises or sets early or late. Of course the Sun would not change it's movement, Earth would. Each time the Earth reversed it's rotation, or changed it's movement, a slosh would be expected. The position of sea level would also probably change repeatedly.

Making sense of the geologic column is complicated. If the memories of our ancestors aren't fairy tales, the process was catastrophic, and recent, to a considerable depth. This is what i see in the field. The results are truly breathtaking.

michael

Hi Michael...what are your thoughts on this?

"The ages of the past, between the successive catastrophes, are called in many diverse sources “sun ages.” I have tried to show why this designation is meaningful.(1) But the ancients also maintained that the successive ages were initiated by planets: Moon, Saturn, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Mars. Therefore the sun-ages could also have been called planet ages."
http://www.varchive.org/itb/planages.htm

It appears to me that the cultures who record "4 suns" are obviously older than the ones who recorded planetary ages as numbering the "seven" planets. Thus, it could be argued that each planet was very bright in our skies at the time, and also involved in reshaping the Earth via earthquake, flood, and lightning.

I've been reading some religious scripture of late - namely the Muslim holy book, and it mentions "seven Earths" in the same sentence as "seven planets". This seems to tally with what Velikovsky says about each of these planets having an influence on Earth as a bright sun-like star - as well as suggest it was involved in reshaping the entire Earth anew.

Hi PP,

In Worlds in Collision Dr Velikovsky speaks of a reversal of the Suns motion during events associated with Venus. Later in the V archive he attributes the last reversal of earth's rotation to events with Mars.

http://www.varchive.org/dag/cevil.htm

I try to keep an open mind concerning dates and agents. Apparently there were many agents. Claiming dates more recent than 10,000 years ago seems safe to me. The last reversal could have been March 23, -687. Or not. But from what i see in the field, the Earth reversed it's rotation causing waters to rush poleward from the equator. The water appears to have been covered with oil from an external source. I used some of this oil to drive to Starbucks earlier for coffee.

michael