Now there's Dark Gulping

Many Internet forums have carried discussion of the Electric Universe hypothesis. Much of that discussion has added more confusion than clarity, due to common misunderstandings of the electrical principles. Here we invite participants to discuss their experiences and to summarize questions that have yet to be answered.

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solrey
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Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by solrey » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:23 am

All I can say is that I'm still roflmao after reading this yesterday.

http://www.universetoday.com/2009/04/22 ... /#comments
For all you dark matter and dark energy fans out there, now there’s another new “dark” to add to the list. It’s called “dark gulping,” and it involves a process which may explain how supermassive black holes were able to form in the early universe. Astronomers from the University College of London (UCL) propose that dark gulping occurred when there were gravitational interactions between the invisible halo of dark matter in a cluster of galaxies and the gas embedded in the dark matter halo. This occurred when the Universe was less than a billion years old. They found that the interactions cause the dark matter to form a compact central mass, which can be gravitationally unstable, and collapse. The fast dynamical collapse is the dark gulping.
“In the context of our model, the observed core sizes of galaxy cluster halos and the observed range of giant black hole masses imply that dark matter particles have between seven and ten degrees of freedom,” said Saxton. ”With more than six, the inner region of the dark matter approaches the threshold of gravitational instability, opening up the possibility of dark gulping taking place.
Seven to ten degrees of freedom? Is that their way of saying seven to ten "dimensions"?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Here's a link to the actual paper. Mostly just convoluted abstract mathematical acrobatics. But it passes peer review. :roll:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/0809.3795v1

This quote from Tesla says it all:
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla

Grey Cloud
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Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by Grey Cloud » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:40 am

Hi Solrey,
The mind boggles with seven to ten degrees of freedom. Sadly there was no 'artist's impression'.
The bottom of the Black Hole barrel must be pretty much scraped through by now surely? In fact it's probably already got a black hole in it. :shock:
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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solrey
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Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by solrey » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:15 am

Hey now, Grey Cloud. That's one of my favorite chapters in the Tao Te Ching.
I think these might also apply to our general theme here at Thunderbolts:
S.Mitchell translation

A good traveler has no fixed plans
and is not intent upon arriving.
A good artist lets his intuition
lead him wherever it wants.
A good scientist has freed himself of concepts
and keeps his mind open to what is.

Thus the Master is available to all people
and doesn't reject anyone.
He is ready to use all situations
and doesn't waste anything.
This is called embodying the light.

What is a good man but a bad man's teacher?
What is a bad man but a good man's job?
If you don't understand this, you will get lost,
however intelligent you are.
It is the great secret.
chapter 27
When a superior man hears of the Tao,
he immediately begins to embody it.
When an average man hears of the Tao,
he half believes it, half doubts it.
When a foolish man hears of the Tao,
he laughs out loud.
If he didn't laugh,
it wouldn't be the Tao.
chapter 41
Substitute EU for Tao in the above. 8-)
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla

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MGmirkin
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Big Dark Gulp...

Post by MGmirkin » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:27 am

Can your supersize my Big [Dark] Gulp? I'd like mine in a 10^32 oz. size, if you please!

Seriously though... Where's the punchline? ;)

So, we've got "Dark Matter," "Dark Energy," "Dark Flows," and now "Dark Gulping?" Not to mention the possibility of "Dark Charges" and a "Dark Electromagnetic Spectrum" (complete, I assume, with dark electric fields, dark magnetic fields and dark electric currents). :roll:

Who let the foxes into the hen house and turned the keys of the asylum over to the inmates?

~Michael
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

Grey Cloud
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Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by Grey Cloud » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:32 pm

Hi Michael,
You wrote:
Who let the foxes into the hen house and turned the keys of the asylum over to the inmates?
Holy mixed metaphors, Batman!
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

Grey Cloud
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Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by Grey Cloud » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:58 pm

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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MGmirkin
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Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by MGmirkin » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:22 pm

Grey Cloud wrote:Hi Michael,
You wrote:
Who let the foxes into the hen house and turned the keys of the asylum over to the inmates?
Holy mixed metaphors, Batman!
No, no, I think I'd only be mixing metaphors if they turned the keys of the asylum over to the foxes and let the inmates into the hen house! ;) Or something like that. Heh.

It's like one big, horrible fractured fairy tale! :D

~Michael
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

flyingcloud
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Re: Big Dark Gulp...

Post by flyingcloud » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:25 am

MGmirkin wrote:Can your supersize my Big [Dark] Gulp? I'd like mine in a 10^32 oz. size, if you please!

Seriously though... Where's the punchline? ;)

So, we've got "Dark Matter," "Dark Energy," "Dark Flows," and now "Dark Gulping?" Not to mention the possibility of "Dark Charges" and a "Dark Electromagnetic Spectrum" (complete, I assume, with dark electric fields, dark magnetic fields and dark electric currents). :roll:

Who let the foxes into the hen house and turned the keys of the asylum over to the inmates?

~Michael
I've seen references to Dark Plasma :shock:

http://www.dapla.org/
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/co ... ?id=141145
http://ezinearticles.com/?Dark-Plasma&id=513313


How about Dark Light :roll:

Osmosis
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Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by Osmosis » Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:07 am

Speaking of Dark Light:There was a nice article in Popular Electronics, in about 1956. It convinced me that "Dark emitting lamps would" work! :o It was in an April issue! :lol: :roll:

mharratsc
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Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by mharratsc » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:48 pm

I'm waiting for them to drop the hat about their new Dark Plasma Cosmology!

Seriously tho- I checked out the one link from the ezinearticles.com regarding Dark Plasma, and wow- that guy is really mixed up in his physics! He says plasma in dark current mode doesn't give off any radiation, so therefore it can be considered 'dark matter'.

Dunno that he should be authoring any books on the subject of plasmas... :P
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

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MGmirkin
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Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by MGmirkin » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:02 pm

From the Unexplained [unexplainable?] mysteries site post on dark plasma:
If X-ray galaxies were observed in the nineteenth century to affect nearby stars through gravity it would have been classified under matter that we would now classify as dark matter because it would not have emitted any electromagnetic waves that would have been detectable using the scientific instruments available in the nineteenth century. However, with today's instruments it can be declassified from dark matter.
He seems to make the same error as Bridgman and others:

IE, the claim that simply having failed to observe something "normal but undetectable with current instrumentation" would qualify it as "dark matter." Not so. "Dark Matter" has been theorized as something separate and distinct from "normal matter." It supposedly does not interact with the traditional electromagnetic field. It does not radiate in the EM spectrum AT ALL. Not just "not in the parts we can currently detect," but "at all, period, ever, anywhere."

So saying that "it radiates in the EM spectrum, but not in part that we can currently see" IS NOT the same thing as saying something is "composed of dark matter" which does not ever, under any circumstances whatsoever interact with the electromagnetic field or radiate in the electromagnetic spectrum.

That some have posited that it my have its own form of "dark charge" equivalent to, but distinct from electric charges, simply makes me chortle a bit. "Epicycles," says I. Why invent a new electromagnetic field and a new electromagnetic spectrum when the one we've got isn't even being applied correctly, yet, to astrophysical problems?

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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Re: Now there's Dark Gulping

Post by MGmirkin » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:15 pm

On the other hand, he seems to ask the right questions...
The natural tendency of plasma to carry currents is an important source of magnetic fields. We know from basic electromagnetics that currents generate magnetic fields around them ... Since plasma is pervasive throughout the universe, scientists believe that virtually all visible matter in the universe is magnetized. But magnetic fields are also found outside galaxy clusters where there is no visible matter. Where did these fields come from? The origin of these magnetic fields is still a puzzle to scientists.
But he then seems to have the wrong metaphysics attached and perhaps doesn't understand plasmas quite as well as he thinks he does. IE, his definition of "dark matter" seems out of line with the the typical definition, as I noted above. He does however seem to come to a similar, if poorly couched, conclusion. IE, currents in plasma generate the magnetic fields we observe. Why he insists on calling plasma "dark matter," when plasma does in fact emit in the electromagnetic spectrum ("dark matter," by definition, does not and cannot), I'm not sure.

He also notes that haloes have been seen around some galaxies, possibly in shells. However, whatever we "see" is NOT dark matter (dark matter, by definition, does not emit in the electromagnetic spectrum and thus CANNOT be seen). And there is no convincing proof that it in any way infers the presence of dark matter either.

Plus he seems to have some other weird metaphysics speculating about "plasma lifeforms" mixed in, which doesn't really seem to help the case.

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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