Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
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Lloyd
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
Mo, I named six events, not just one.
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moses
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
Lloyd,
Yes, but how many events does webo see.
Cheers,
Mo
Yes, but how many events does webo see.
Cheers,
Mo
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webolife
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
Briefly, there are a number of observations or questions that must be explained by a catastrophic model, but I will limit my reply to some of those that define the flood geology model based on a plain reading of the biblical account:
1. The origin of the earth, its crust, its atmosphere, its ocean[s], its continent[s]
2. The apparent "solidness" of the continental crust, eg. the hardness of rock, the alleged rock cycle, granite
3. The global distribution of some major stratigraphic sequences, eg. Cambrian, Permian, Cretaceous, Pliocene, synthesized into the alleged "geologic column"
4. The "apparent age" of the crust based on both radiometric data and assumptions of relative dating, eg. superposition, paleontology, index fossils, circularly presumed by and based on the alleged geologic column
5. Paleontology, the fossil record, mass extinctions [alleged "explosions"] of life forms
6. The "fit" of the continents, and the current measurable rate of spreading, supposed continental drift
7. Formation of global systems of mountain ranges
8. The prehistory and history of man, Adam [the "first man"], Noah and the flood associated with his generation
9. The ages of archaeological finds based on radiocarbon dating and other corroborations, eg. tree rings
10. Ice age events
That's a good list, though I may have missed some questions or challenges; feel free to add and ask.
My take, without going into great detail:
*1. The original earth was at some point covered by water. Whether this water formed in situ, or had an extraterrestrial or subterranean original is unknown. No continental crust per se was exposed. How much time passed between the earth's time zero and the wrap of ocean is undetermined. What the structure of the original atmosphere was, and its exact chemical make-up is unknown, but the original atmosphere was relatively opaque, obscuring the surface of the earth in darkness. At some point {the plain reading of the scripture suggests this was in the several thousand years ago range} an upheaval in the earth's crust resulted in the release of subterranean or surface waters/steam which hydrated the atmosphere [Heb. shammayim] and initiated a chemically cascade of recomposition, and allowed sunlight through for the first time. I don't hold to any "gap" between an original creation and the "recreation" of the "gap theorist" in which the alleged geologic column is have been laid. The only reason for such a distortion is to accommodate a misplaced trust in gradualism and the radiometric age dating systems. The upheaval resulted in the uplift of the first continental mass, at which time the granitic substructure of that mass would have been formed or exposed. Uplift of the continent would have been obviously accompanied by much run-off and erosion forming numerous rills and mounds, and what we would find today as Precambrian layering, but no mountains as we know them [Heb. harar in pre-flood times would have been hills of relatively insignificant height]. The current "protective" layered structure [Heb. raqia] of the atmosphere was completed. I take this series of events to have been rapid.
*2. Generally two geologic processes result in the hardening of rock: cooling/crystalization [igneous], and cementation [sedimentary]. Neither of these requires long epochs of time. Cementation is a chemical process that simply requires the correct ingredients which are found in the sediments, particularly those mineral rich crustal materials of the primordial earth. Hardness generally increases with depth/overburden, but not always, so compaction/compression plays some part. Pre-flood surface had an abundance of minerals, affirming the granitic nature of the continent. None of the fossiliferous rock sequences from Cambrian up would have been known at this stage.
*3. At some point, plain textual reading, there was a second major upheaval. This one is explicitly or inferentially initiated by an extraterrestrial event, “impacts” from space [Heb. “matar”] as in asteroidal or cometary debris – I take this to be the result of the flyby of a large planetoidal object, perhaps a current faux-moon of earth, one of the planets [Mars or Venus], or another object which left the solar system or perhaps plunged into the sun. At some point in the past Venus and Earth were gravitationally interlocked, so it seems reasonable to suspect that culprit. The cascade of events described in other posts ensued as a flood which did not encompass the world all at once but in several stages or waves [I propose 3 or 4, based on plain textual rendering] – to these waves or stages I attribute the major stratigraphic sequences, eg. Cambrian through Permian, Cretaceous, Tertiary to Pliocene, that are identifiable worldwide, and form the basis for the so-called geologic column from Cambrian up. Astroblemes are associated with all of these sequences so I infer that the “matar” continued during this entire period, to which I assign a 5 month time frame based on plain textual reading.
*4. This time frame is of course ludicrous, if the assumptions of relative and absolute dating are adhered to, but there is no need [aside from rigorous brainwashing] to believe these assumptions. For example, as described more thoroughly in other posts, if U/Pb ratio in the primordial crust was 50/50, as we find it generally on Earth and throughout the solar system today, then that radiometric dating method could be used to prove the crust was formed yesterday, give or take a few million years of uncertainty due to method error. Likewise if Berthault’s stratigraphy experiments are applied to the study of sedimentary rock sequences around the earth, it may be shown that multiple layers of rock [such as at the Grand Canyon] may have been laid down simultaneously by deep fast moving currents.
*5. The fossil record is to any observer, the graphic declaration of mass destruction and extinction of life forms around the earth. One may imagine the lifestyles [and spans] of those organisms to be part of some progression or evolution of life, but the direct evidence is of death and burial mostly by flood borne sediment. That bottom dwelling sea life was buried first would be expected in a catastrophic scenario. That more motile organisms able to escape [for a time] the onrush of flood tsunamis, especially land dwellers [birds, mammals and such], would be buried later only makes sense. That humans would be able to hold out the longest before their eventual demise is only logical. That numerous exceptions to this general order are found is highly predictable, rather than mystifying, surprising, or “changing our ideas of how evolution occurred” as is oft repeated in articles about the latest fossil finds. Evolution theory, in its optimal presentation, is contradictory and illogical. People accept it wishfully, I believe because it attempts to satisfy a basic human urge to flee from an authoritarian creator figure. Evolutionists gain converts by attempting to homogenize the two conflicting theories of natural selection, an information reducing process for which much evidence and observations are known, with phylogeny via beneficial mutations accumulated over time, an information increasing process for which little if any evidence is known. This dearth of proofs for phylogeny has been persistent since the time of Darwin, and is still rightfully referred to as “Darwin’s Enigma.” The two terms “microevolution” and “macroevolution” distinguish these two conflicting processes, but most evolutionary advocates [eg. Neil de Grasse Tyson] today artfully obfuscate the terms so that audiences are bombarded with “Millions of pieces of evidence exist proving evolution is more than ‘just a theory’”. Creation and Intelligent Design is ridiculed by non-arguments such as that intermediate designs show that highly complex organelles [such as the bacterial flagellar motor] could have evolved by chance. This is rather like declaring that because model T’s and VW beetles preceded the Tesla, it is reasonable that the Tesla came about without the aid of a designer.
*6. Continental drift, confirmed by the discovery of seafloor spreading 50 years ago, provides a simple and logical model for the existence of front-edge boundary mountain ranges, the 85% coastline and paleo-biome matches, magnetic indices for supposed “polar wandering”, as well as providing a continuing mechanism for seismic activity, tsunamis, etc., and is verified at a much slowed rate today. I see it as a rapid process beginning with the split up of the original single continent and reaching its current placement by the end of several months.
*7. The global mountain systems of today do not in this model characterize the pre-cataclysmic world. The generally horizontal rock strata and stages of uplift and twisted metamorphic sequences seen today indicate a low topography prior to and during the early stages of the flood episode. Continental drift explains how this originally low topography delta like stream configuration changed to the high topography watersheds of today. Run-off/erosion at the end of this period contributed to or caused the formation of many of the canyon systems of the world.
*8. The rarity of fossil evidence for humans and hominids in the “flood” strata, ie. below and just a bit into the Cenozoic strata infers that humans for the most part were not buried in mass. Their demise left them stranded and or lying about on or near the surface, where their bodies decayed… archaeological evidence of settlements, cave dwelling, and other artifacts are, in my view placed in the decades and centuries following the flood.
*9. Radiocarbon dating applies to such finds. Due to the atmospheric collapse accompanying the flood, the C14 assimilation rate was reset, yielding too high an age for finds originating close to the end of the flood, but leveling off to about present day levels and accurate correlation for finds dating back to about 5000 BP. Correlation with tree rings is generally accurate back to a few thousand years, eg. the bristlecone pine dates.
*10. Ice age data generally relates to structures and formation near or on the surface indicating this was a late or post-flood phenomenon. Radiocarbon dates will be similarly exaggerated eg. in ice cores, as the levels, flows or atmospheres being tested approach the flood event time, again due to the lower levels of C14 in the atmosphere before and during the flood period.
This describes a scenario that includes a water event pre-flood, the flood, and the erosive, climatic and wind-driven events of the centuries following the flood incl the ice age. Long ages are not needed or inferred in this scenario.
1. The origin of the earth, its crust, its atmosphere, its ocean[s], its continent[s]
2. The apparent "solidness" of the continental crust, eg. the hardness of rock, the alleged rock cycle, granite
3. The global distribution of some major stratigraphic sequences, eg. Cambrian, Permian, Cretaceous, Pliocene, synthesized into the alleged "geologic column"
4. The "apparent age" of the crust based on both radiometric data and assumptions of relative dating, eg. superposition, paleontology, index fossils, circularly presumed by and based on the alleged geologic column
5. Paleontology, the fossil record, mass extinctions [alleged "explosions"] of life forms
6. The "fit" of the continents, and the current measurable rate of spreading, supposed continental drift
7. Formation of global systems of mountain ranges
8. The prehistory and history of man, Adam [the "first man"], Noah and the flood associated with his generation
9. The ages of archaeological finds based on radiocarbon dating and other corroborations, eg. tree rings
10. Ice age events
That's a good list, though I may have missed some questions or challenges; feel free to add and ask.
My take, without going into great detail:
*1. The original earth was at some point covered by water. Whether this water formed in situ, or had an extraterrestrial or subterranean original is unknown. No continental crust per se was exposed. How much time passed between the earth's time zero and the wrap of ocean is undetermined. What the structure of the original atmosphere was, and its exact chemical make-up is unknown, but the original atmosphere was relatively opaque, obscuring the surface of the earth in darkness. At some point {the plain reading of the scripture suggests this was in the several thousand years ago range} an upheaval in the earth's crust resulted in the release of subterranean or surface waters/steam which hydrated the atmosphere [Heb. shammayim] and initiated a chemically cascade of recomposition, and allowed sunlight through for the first time. I don't hold to any "gap" between an original creation and the "recreation" of the "gap theorist" in which the alleged geologic column is have been laid. The only reason for such a distortion is to accommodate a misplaced trust in gradualism and the radiometric age dating systems. The upheaval resulted in the uplift of the first continental mass, at which time the granitic substructure of that mass would have been formed or exposed. Uplift of the continent would have been obviously accompanied by much run-off and erosion forming numerous rills and mounds, and what we would find today as Precambrian layering, but no mountains as we know them [Heb. harar in pre-flood times would have been hills of relatively insignificant height]. The current "protective" layered structure [Heb. raqia] of the atmosphere was completed. I take this series of events to have been rapid.
*2. Generally two geologic processes result in the hardening of rock: cooling/crystalization [igneous], and cementation [sedimentary]. Neither of these requires long epochs of time. Cementation is a chemical process that simply requires the correct ingredients which are found in the sediments, particularly those mineral rich crustal materials of the primordial earth. Hardness generally increases with depth/overburden, but not always, so compaction/compression plays some part. Pre-flood surface had an abundance of minerals, affirming the granitic nature of the continent. None of the fossiliferous rock sequences from Cambrian up would have been known at this stage.
*3. At some point, plain textual reading, there was a second major upheaval. This one is explicitly or inferentially initiated by an extraterrestrial event, “impacts” from space [Heb. “matar”] as in asteroidal or cometary debris – I take this to be the result of the flyby of a large planetoidal object, perhaps a current faux-moon of earth, one of the planets [Mars or Venus], or another object which left the solar system or perhaps plunged into the sun. At some point in the past Venus and Earth were gravitationally interlocked, so it seems reasonable to suspect that culprit. The cascade of events described in other posts ensued as a flood which did not encompass the world all at once but in several stages or waves [I propose 3 or 4, based on plain textual rendering] – to these waves or stages I attribute the major stratigraphic sequences, eg. Cambrian through Permian, Cretaceous, Tertiary to Pliocene, that are identifiable worldwide, and form the basis for the so-called geologic column from Cambrian up. Astroblemes are associated with all of these sequences so I infer that the “matar” continued during this entire period, to which I assign a 5 month time frame based on plain textual reading.
*4. This time frame is of course ludicrous, if the assumptions of relative and absolute dating are adhered to, but there is no need [aside from rigorous brainwashing] to believe these assumptions. For example, as described more thoroughly in other posts, if U/Pb ratio in the primordial crust was 50/50, as we find it generally on Earth and throughout the solar system today, then that radiometric dating method could be used to prove the crust was formed yesterday, give or take a few million years of uncertainty due to method error. Likewise if Berthault’s stratigraphy experiments are applied to the study of sedimentary rock sequences around the earth, it may be shown that multiple layers of rock [such as at the Grand Canyon] may have been laid down simultaneously by deep fast moving currents.
*5. The fossil record is to any observer, the graphic declaration of mass destruction and extinction of life forms around the earth. One may imagine the lifestyles [and spans] of those organisms to be part of some progression or evolution of life, but the direct evidence is of death and burial mostly by flood borne sediment. That bottom dwelling sea life was buried first would be expected in a catastrophic scenario. That more motile organisms able to escape [for a time] the onrush of flood tsunamis, especially land dwellers [birds, mammals and such], would be buried later only makes sense. That humans would be able to hold out the longest before their eventual demise is only logical. That numerous exceptions to this general order are found is highly predictable, rather than mystifying, surprising, or “changing our ideas of how evolution occurred” as is oft repeated in articles about the latest fossil finds. Evolution theory, in its optimal presentation, is contradictory and illogical. People accept it wishfully, I believe because it attempts to satisfy a basic human urge to flee from an authoritarian creator figure. Evolutionists gain converts by attempting to homogenize the two conflicting theories of natural selection, an information reducing process for which much evidence and observations are known, with phylogeny via beneficial mutations accumulated over time, an information increasing process for which little if any evidence is known. This dearth of proofs for phylogeny has been persistent since the time of Darwin, and is still rightfully referred to as “Darwin’s Enigma.” The two terms “microevolution” and “macroevolution” distinguish these two conflicting processes, but most evolutionary advocates [eg. Neil de Grasse Tyson] today artfully obfuscate the terms so that audiences are bombarded with “Millions of pieces of evidence exist proving evolution is more than ‘just a theory’”. Creation and Intelligent Design is ridiculed by non-arguments such as that intermediate designs show that highly complex organelles [such as the bacterial flagellar motor] could have evolved by chance. This is rather like declaring that because model T’s and VW beetles preceded the Tesla, it is reasonable that the Tesla came about without the aid of a designer.
*6. Continental drift, confirmed by the discovery of seafloor spreading 50 years ago, provides a simple and logical model for the existence of front-edge boundary mountain ranges, the 85% coastline and paleo-biome matches, magnetic indices for supposed “polar wandering”, as well as providing a continuing mechanism for seismic activity, tsunamis, etc., and is verified at a much slowed rate today. I see it as a rapid process beginning with the split up of the original single continent and reaching its current placement by the end of several months.
*7. The global mountain systems of today do not in this model characterize the pre-cataclysmic world. The generally horizontal rock strata and stages of uplift and twisted metamorphic sequences seen today indicate a low topography prior to and during the early stages of the flood episode. Continental drift explains how this originally low topography delta like stream configuration changed to the high topography watersheds of today. Run-off/erosion at the end of this period contributed to or caused the formation of many of the canyon systems of the world.
*8. The rarity of fossil evidence for humans and hominids in the “flood” strata, ie. below and just a bit into the Cenozoic strata infers that humans for the most part were not buried in mass. Their demise left them stranded and or lying about on or near the surface, where their bodies decayed… archaeological evidence of settlements, cave dwelling, and other artifacts are, in my view placed in the decades and centuries following the flood.
*9. Radiocarbon dating applies to such finds. Due to the atmospheric collapse accompanying the flood, the C14 assimilation rate was reset, yielding too high an age for finds originating close to the end of the flood, but leveling off to about present day levels and accurate correlation for finds dating back to about 5000 BP. Correlation with tree rings is generally accurate back to a few thousand years, eg. the bristlecone pine dates.
*10. Ice age data generally relates to structures and formation near or on the surface indicating this was a late or post-flood phenomenon. Radiocarbon dates will be similarly exaggerated eg. in ice cores, as the levels, flows or atmospheres being tested approach the flood event time, again due to the lower levels of C14 in the atmosphere before and during the flood period.
This describes a scenario that includes a water event pre-flood, the flood, and the erosive, climatic and wind-driven events of the centuries following the flood incl the ice age. Long ages are not needed or inferred in this scenario.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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LunarSabbathTruth
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
If you are referencing the Torah, then you should not forget the Tower of Babel.webolife wrote:Briefly, there are a number of observations or questions that must be explained by a catastrophic model, but I will limit my reply to some of those that define the flood geology model based on a plain reading of the biblical account:....
This describes a scenario that includes a water event pre-flood, the flood, and the erosive, climatic and wind-driven events of the centuries following the flood incl the ice age. Long ages are not needed or inferred in this scenario.
I feel that the breakup of the Saturnian system occurred during the time of the Tower of Babel. (It also involved the comet Mercury somehow.)
And the and this cryptic statement which appears around the time of the Tower of Babel:
Genesis 10 was written for contemporaries and describes things as they existed at a certain slice of time. Verse 10:19, for example, lists Sodom and Gomorrah as active cities. They had not yet been destroyed.Genesis 10:25
And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
So the "division of the Earth", whatever that meant, was an event that was well known at that time, so much that this guy was named after it. Unfortunately, Shem (who I think wrote the "Table of Nations") did not consider that later generations would forget these things, just leaving us with just an oblique reference that is only mentioned because of the name in the genealogy.
It is interesting to note that it occurred around the time that Sodom was still standing.
This implies the question: Were Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed during the "division of the Earth?
There are also the events of the Exodus, as documented by Velikovsky in "Worlds in Collision", and a generally unstable solar system from that time (1500 BC) to the time of Uzziah, Ahaz, and Hezekiah (around 700 BC). I would associate the freezing of the Wolly Mammoths at the 1500 BC events.
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webolife
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
Yes, I agree that there are several other events following the main deluge that are attributable to planetary upheavals and interplanetary interactions, not to forget the exodus events, or Joshua's long day, which was explicitly an interplanetary play.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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LunarSabbathTruth
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
I have no doubt that these events were all related, even though they spanned many centuries. Some of these occurred in relatively close proximity of time. For example, the Exodus itself, destruction of Jericho, and Joshua's Long Day are one series of related events.webolife wrote:Yes, I agree that there are several other events following the main deluge that are attributable to planetary upheavals and interplanetary interactions, not to forget the exodus events, or Joshua's long day, which was explicitly an interplanetary play.
If the Tower of Babel was the beginning of the breakup of the Saturnian system, then the destruction of Sodom may have been the end of those series of events.
We also see several famines at the time of Abraham and also his great-grandson Joseph, probably due to circumstances related to these disturbances.
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webolife
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
I am not saying they are unrelated, but I am open to more than one primary cause.
The Saturnian model isn't my cup of tea [yet]; too much "creativity" of myth interpretation, too much speculation becoming foundation, too much wishful thinking, too little physical evidence, too little mechanism, too little corroborating science...
The Saturnian model isn't my cup of tea [yet]; too much "creativity" of myth interpretation, too much speculation becoming foundation, too much wishful thinking, too little physical evidence, too little mechanism, too little corroborating science...
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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LunarSabbathTruth
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
I prefer Velikovsky's scenario of the cosmic events of 1500 and 700 BC. Most proponents of the Saturn theory will ignore those events and dates.webolife wrote:I am not saying they are unrelated, but I am open to more than one primary cause.
The Saturnian model isn't my cup of tea [yet]; too much "creativity" of myth interpretation, too much speculation becoming foundation, too much wishful thinking, too little physical evidence, too little mechanism, too little corroborating science...
If there ever was a Saturnian system, the only way I can see it fitting in would be that it was still intact (to some degree) after the Great Flood. Perhaps the original instability caused the Flood, but the system was sufficiently stable to persist for a few hundred years.
I could see a golden age, and a different planetary arrangement fitting into the context of the Tower of Babel.
I do not go for the idea that there was an string of planets hurling thru space like a big version of shoemaker-levy, and all the while it just happened to be a golden age.
I see a series of breakdowns starting with the Great Flood, then the Tower of Babel, destruction of Sodom, then a few hundred years of stability, then the Exodus followed by 700 years of instability between Venus and Mars..
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webolife
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
Possible, but very speculative; do you have some reasoning/science/etc. behind your scenario?
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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LunarSabbathTruth
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
What specifically are you asking about? I mentioned many things.webolife wrote:Possible, but very speculative; do you have some reasoning/science/etc. behind your scenario?
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webolife
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
Sorry, I should have referenced this line:
LunarSabbathTruth wrote:then the Exodus followed by 700 years of instability between Venus and Mars..
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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LunarSabbathTruth
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
This comes from Dr V's "Worlds in Collision". The identification of the two planets is based upon in Greek and Roman mythology. The 15 year cycle is based upon the Bible and Rabbinic sources.webolife wrote:Sorry, I should have referenced this line:LunarSabbathTruth wrote:then the Exodus followed by 700 years of instability between Venus and Mars..
A different approach, in which there is only the agency of Mars (not Venus at all) is given by "Donald W. Patten & Samuel R. Windsor" in the book "The Mars-Earth Wars". The time frame is the same.
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moses
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
So webo,
You have Noah at the time of the formation of the geological column and then some planetary interaction after this. Whereas I see the the geological column being formed long ago in another configuration of planets, not necessarily a Saturn System, and then later planetary chaos ending in the days of Noah and some interactions even after that.
So we both see the so-called geological column forming from laminated flow produced in an interaction of Earth with another body. Most of your detail I disagree with but we are still pretty close in my view, all things considered. In Noah we now have a timing difference rather than the one event scenario, hence my original question to you about Noah.
I have an ancient civilization on Earth after the formation of the geological column and before the planetary chaos. I suspect that the planetary chaos was caused by an energetic wave from the galactic core. These things would then be major differences between us.
Cheers,
Mo
You have Noah at the time of the formation of the geological column and then some planetary interaction after this. Whereas I see the the geological column being formed long ago in another configuration of planets, not necessarily a Saturn System, and then later planetary chaos ending in the days of Noah and some interactions even after that.
So we both see the so-called geological column forming from laminated flow produced in an interaction of Earth with another body. Most of your detail I disagree with but we are still pretty close in my view, all things considered. In Noah we now have a timing difference rather than the one event scenario, hence my original question to you about Noah.
I have an ancient civilization on Earth after the formation of the geological column and before the planetary chaos. I suspect that the planetary chaos was caused by an energetic wave from the galactic core. These things would then be major differences between us.
Cheers,
Mo
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webolife
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
I agree with your last paragraph, except I have no basis for accepting the galactic wave... who can know?moses wrote:So webo,
You have Noah at the time of the formation of the geological column and then some planetary interaction after this. Whereas I see the the geological column being formed long ago in another configuration of planets, not necessarily a Saturn System, and then later planetary chaos ending in the days of Noah and some interactions even after that.
So we both see the so-called geological column forming from laminated flow produced in an interaction of Earth with another body. Most of your detail I disagree with but we are still pretty close in my view, all things considered. In Noah we now have a timing difference rather than the one event scenario, hence my original question to you about Noah.
I have an ancient civilization on Earth after the formation of the geological column and before the planetary chaos. I suspect that the planetary chaos was caused by an energetic wave from the galactic core. These things would then be major differences between us.
There is no basis for the pre-Noah geologic column [ie. from Cambrian up], if the Noachian deluge was global as plain text indicates.
If the GC [which is an imaginary construct anyway] is pre-Noah, where is there any evidence for a global flood?
((Haven't figure out exactly if you consider yourself OEC? I don't buy the OEC premise that the "whole world" was contained in an Iraqi valley, nor their related premise that none of the hominids from Neanderthal back are human. I also don't buy their view on "progressive creation" as it is just theistic evolution by a different name.))
What details do you question, and why?
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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moses
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Re: Evidence of Ancient Global Cataclysm
Hi webo,
I like the idea of water coming up out of the ground as being due to electrical force. And I put the likely cause of that electrical force as being due to another body coming in electrical range of the Earth. So I put such happenings in the Velikovsky period.
Where Earth's water came from has been much thought about. I place the theorised geological column as being formed from electrically excavated Earth rocks and soil, etc, plus rocks and soil, etc, from another planet. I also feel that this other planet had life and so water, which would have been transferred to Earth. But it is the "S" shape of the Atlantic Ocean that suggests a Birkeland Current formed the Atlantic Ocean. And so possibly the material carved out of the oceans makes up the gelogical column.
I like there being no mountains after the final layer of the geological column was formed, although the laminated sediment process has been shown to go up and down hills. But still the mountains would have formed by planetary interaction.
The waves of your second major upheaval do not account for the differences in the fossils found in the Cambrian and Cretaceous, say. What configuration could have produced a layer and then a considerable time later produced another layer with different creatures therein. And seemingly this is repeated a few times. I'm definitely open to ideas about this.
Now I see the Grand Canyon being formed by by receding waters in as many events as there were episodes of laminated deposition.
No continental drift, but during a planetary interaction, or two, as electrical etching is in progress and mountain building ensued, there is a big tug on certain areas of the Erath's surface which resulted in cracks and plates on the Earth's surface. Now gravitational and inertial and probably electrical forces cause these plates to rub.
Again the Irish bog tree ring dates as 2350BC agreeing with the bible is where we should start to hang our datings. This suggests that much of the carbon dating is correct back to this time.
The ice ages were produced in the Velikovsky period due to Earth being in a much more elliptical orbit.
I have been on a catastrophist bible group whose main scenario was almost totally different to your scenario. Working out stuff from the bible is perilous. Simple logic must prevail over bible determinations.
Cheers,
Mo
I like the idea of water coming up out of the ground as being due to electrical force. And I put the likely cause of that electrical force as being due to another body coming in electrical range of the Earth. So I put such happenings in the Velikovsky period.
Where Earth's water came from has been much thought about. I place the theorised geological column as being formed from electrically excavated Earth rocks and soil, etc, plus rocks and soil, etc, from another planet. I also feel that this other planet had life and so water, which would have been transferred to Earth. But it is the "S" shape of the Atlantic Ocean that suggests a Birkeland Current formed the Atlantic Ocean. And so possibly the material carved out of the oceans makes up the gelogical column.
I like there being no mountains after the final layer of the geological column was formed, although the laminated sediment process has been shown to go up and down hills. But still the mountains would have formed by planetary interaction.
The waves of your second major upheaval do not account for the differences in the fossils found in the Cambrian and Cretaceous, say. What configuration could have produced a layer and then a considerable time later produced another layer with different creatures therein. And seemingly this is repeated a few times. I'm definitely open to ideas about this.
Now I see the Grand Canyon being formed by by receding waters in as many events as there were episodes of laminated deposition.
No continental drift, but during a planetary interaction, or two, as electrical etching is in progress and mountain building ensued, there is a big tug on certain areas of the Erath's surface which resulted in cracks and plates on the Earth's surface. Now gravitational and inertial and probably electrical forces cause these plates to rub.
Again the Irish bog tree ring dates as 2350BC agreeing with the bible is where we should start to hang our datings. This suggests that much of the carbon dating is correct back to this time.
The ice ages were produced in the Velikovsky period due to Earth being in a much more elliptical orbit.
I have been on a catastrophist bible group whose main scenario was almost totally different to your scenario. Working out stuff from the bible is perilous. Simple logic must prevail over bible determinations.
Cheers,
Mo
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