Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Many Internet forums have carried discussion of the Electric Universe hypothesis. Much of that discussion has added more confusion than clarity, due to common misunderstandings of the electrical principles. Here we invite participants to discuss their experiences and to summarize questions that have yet to be answered.

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Indalo
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Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by Indalo » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:14 am

I'm not sure what to call this thread as it is the result of some chaotic link-clicking, but basically I'm interested in unifying the theories coming to the surface linking the solar cycles with earth's climate. As a non-scientist I am extremely wary of airing my ignorance with confidence, so my apologies in advance.

Following Anthony Watt's site, I've come across mention of the Solar Cycle 24 and the high likelihood that we are in for a lengthy period of cooling of the earth's climate, (some wag suggested we name it "The Al Gore Cooling Period") the compelling images of the ongoing zero activity on the sun's surface led me to dig a bit deeper. Leif Svalgaard's comments on the WUWT article suggest he is aware of the EU theory, if only because he uses such language as this:
A charged particle will gyrate around the magnetic field in opposite directions for the away and toward field lines. The net result will be a drift in the direction of the big arrow. Particles with the opposite charge will gyrate in the opposite direction and their ‘big arrow’ will point the other way, so at the place of the big arrows you have opposite charges going opposite ways, voila: a current. This current will serve to keep the two magnetic fields apart. with no particles to carry the current, the two magnetic fields would reconnect and cancel each other out.
Follow it here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/t ... #more-5688 somebody here put up a thread which went nowhere with this, so I'm hoping to elicit some responses with this new angle.

Of course, it's entirely possible that even though he's using the same language, he denies the EU connection (this reminds me of the annecdote that Gypsies from Hungary and Rumania, speaking in the Roma language, will completely fail to understand one another, because they are from different 'tribes', despite the fact that they speak the same language ... they simply can not recognise one another because of deeply seated preconceptions and beliefs i.e "you're not one of my people, how could I possibly understand you?")

Svalgaard's studies seem highly positive for the EU camp, and I would like to know if members here have been following his work, or if anybody knows whether he has dismissed the EU theory, which in my view would be a handicap in his conclusions. From Svalgaard I came to Landscheidt, http://landscheidt.auditblogs.com/2009/ ... tum-graph/
where I find the significant theory of the planets affecting the sun's behaviour, although it seems they are stuck with the gravity-only theory.

It seems particularly important to eventually tie up the different fields of study which currently (pardon the pun) point to a more sensible theory of earth's climate 'forcings', i.e to a better understanding of climate change (I understand change is what climate does, not something we do to it which is not to say human activity has a negligable effect, simply that we are not nearly as influential as the AGW camp would have us believe, and man-made Co2 is almost certainly not a major factor.)

For example, if we could get Landscheidt et al to include an EU/gravitational theory governing the force of Neptune and Uranus's effects on the Grand Minima and solar modulation, it seems likely we would be a step closer to a unifying theory of an electric solar system/planetary interaction and its influence on our little planet's climate. On the page at Landscheidt's site discussing the influence of Neptune and Uranus, there seems to be total and complete exclusion of even a hint that what may be involved is something called electricity, and it seems highly likely they are in the opposing camp. Which means it's up to someone reading this thread, to pull the two together.

As a non-scientist, it's easy to read what I want to into the information I can't fully comprehend, but everything seems to be pointing towards a significant upset in mainstream scientific 'understanding' of what makes the planet's climate tick, with the sun the primary suspect for a Leading Role, along with the PDO/Milankovitch cycles etc. which the sun itself may be an influence upon.

The AGW Bad Science is losing ground thanks to the determination and consistency of sites such as WUWT, CO2 Sceptics, Climate Audit and others, not to mention the AGW crowd's own bad behaviour (Gore and Hansen's hysteria is becoming self defeating, witness recent inflammatory articles and actions by the NASA's scientist in articles equating coal trains with Holocaust death trains, and his support of illegal activities by environmentalist activist groups.) But the arguments against the human induced Co2 climate change lack weight, largely because they haven't had an Al Gore figure or Hansen-type scientist to lead the argument and present the data. If the Svalgaard/Landscheidt studies could be unified and reinforced using the Electric Universe theories I am sure a strong argument/discussion would be forthcoming leading to a ground shift in the Climate Change studies and projections. For me, an important missing component to these scattered theories is the inclusion, or application to the theories, of an Electric Universe theory, without this, the conclusions and explanations are holding back the science.

Anybody interested in taking this up?

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davesmith_au
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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by davesmith_au » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:41 am

Giday Indalo, interesting you were drawn to the Landscheidt cycles blog site. That site is maintained by my brother Carl, who is very aware of EU, if not totally 'sold' on it all, so to speak. Carl was the person who first pointed me in the direction of Wal's holoscience site and the Thunderbolts site, almost two years ago now. So I'd recommend further looking over the site with this in mind, and perhaps "reading between the lines". One consideration Carl makes with all of his work is to maintain a certain level of scientific credibility if you will, by not giving too much weight to things which are not yet a 'given' in the scientific literature. Unfortunately Carl is currently battling some very serious health issues at present, and his input both to this forum and to the Landscheidt site has been very limited as a result.

Cheers, Dave.
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Indalo
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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by Indalo » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:49 am

Gday Dave! Excellent to hear this, I shall indeed read more between the lines.

I read about Carl's health and was very moved, as my husband is currently being treated for something similar, although benign ... .

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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by moses » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:00 pm

Sorry to hear about Carl's poor health. I've an intense interest
in alternative health.

The latest ice core research which suggests that the solar cycle
can be found in the nitrogen levels in the ice, could be married
with the Landscheidt cycles, and if a fit is found then the ice
would give us accurate information of the past.
Mo

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rduke
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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by rduke » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:39 pm

All the best to your brother Dave.

Hope for a speedy full recovery!

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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by Julian Braggins » Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:45 am

Hi Indalo,
You will find the interaction between Dr Svalgaard and Vukevic very informative at;

http://solarcycle24.com

on the message board thread 'Solar cycle 24/space weather' main discussion, 35 pages to date, and on the Global Warming and weather discussion threads. Dr Landsheidt is no longer with us , more's the pity, his predictions are looking pretty good.

Indalo
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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by Indalo » Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:28 am

Phew! Thanks Julian for the link, that's a lot of stuff to read up on, excellent.

FWIW: Anthony Watts has an almost-serious thread set up to find a name for the solar minimum we seem to have entered into. So far The Svalgaard Minimum beats the other options of Gore Minimum and Hansen Minimum.:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/22/w ... #more-7277

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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by solrey » Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:37 am

Based on Svalgaards response to me on WUWT when I brought up the subject of the Electric Sun, I don't think he's going to be joinig the EU camp anytime soon.
Leif Svalgaard (11:06:20) :

solrey (10:28:16) :
I’m intrigued by the electric Sun hypothesis. Apparently, the toroidal ring current surrounding the sun has disappeared
[...]
Anyway, I like to think outside the ’sphere’.


I think you are far, far outside. The electric Sun hypothesis is not even wrong, but does have a certain entertainment value.
Oh well. My impression is that he's kinda arrogant anyways.
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla

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nick c
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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by nick c » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:43 am

Leif Svalgaard wrote:The electric Sun hypothesis is not even wrong
So, that means there's still a chance :?: :lol: :twisted: 8-)

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Indalo
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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by Indalo » Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:48 am

I agree with your impression about Svalgaard, solrey, on that forum he comes across as being as arrogant and fixed in his ideas as any rabid AGW supporter. There is something deeply annoying about scientists assuming the role of Provider of Great and Serious and Unquestionable Truths in a manner akin to preachers claiming mystical/metaphysical insights.

Just as in religion, the notion that 'absolutes' exist, leads to a fundamentalism which science itself claims to avoid with the age old practice of investigation and observation. In my view, this is where science 'took a wrong turn', as the Future of Science thread says. When we decided God was dead and religion was a load of old myths, suddenly we needed to fill the vacuum, science and scientists have been trying to fulfill this need for a few centuries now. All it means is that, rather than revealing empirical facts to us, scientists have been attaching themselves to one particular creed, or view- in a mirror image of the high priest- and denying the possibility of a different one. If you are bent on proving that your own scientific hypothesis alone is correct, and intent on pouring scorn on all others, you are injecting self and ego into your study, and therefore may remain forever blind to the avenues of study which could answer age-old riddles.

Sorry, off topic, but true :oops:

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solrey
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Re: Linking Electric Sun with Climate Theories

Post by solrey » Fri May 01, 2009 8:56 am

The folks at the Australian Antarctic Division seem to be doing some good science. For one, they freely admit that Antarctic sea ice extent has increased over the last thirty years, as opposed to the fearmongering of the Wilkins Ice shelf cyclic decay. As related to this discussion, they are monitoring the geoelectric environment at Antarctica as part of a study asking "Can solar variability influence climate?" They also discuss solar influence on weather.

http://www.aad.gov.au/default.asp?casid=3563
High, dry regions with no thunderstorms, such as the Antarctic plateau, are ideal for monitoring the global geoelectric circuit. Additional solar influences on the geoelectric field occur at high latitudes, via the same processes that generate the aurora. In conjunction with Russian and American colleagues, we presently measure the geoelectric field at the Russian station, Vostok, on the Antarctic plateau. We have shown that solar variability can influence the geoelectric field measured at ground level in polar regions, and are continuing to develop research instrumentation and methods of testing the viability of a solar variability influence on weather and climate through modulation of the geoelectric circuit.
They're starting to catch on!
“Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla

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