Flux Ropes in the Solar Wind

[upriver]

Really nice! [...] As the current increases it pinches (reconnects) causes a change in configuration of the flux tube to a field aligned current possibly because the Curl field constricts causing a very small gyroradius in the centers of the tube, which then collapses and reforms with a standard RH rule current.

Thanks! I agree that there is a configuration change, while I guess I would phrase it differently -- I'd say that the flux tube kinda-sorta didn't exist, until the current increased to the point that it started generating its own magnetic field.

I think this is an important point that I would like to touch on. The formation of flux tube by a plasma leader vs formation by a small current that becomes stronger and then forms a tube....

[seasmith]

Celeste wrote:
"Let's look at how a coronal loop erupts into a CME outburst...

Charles wrote:
" Much of the literature on this topic confuses the issue, but coronal loops do not actually erupt into CMEs. Rather, whatever weak coronal loops might have been present go away 24+ hours before the CME. The extremely brilliant loops sometimes called arcades occur after the CME, and thus are effects, not causes.

Following the general rule that "magnetic lines of force" are preceded by an electric impetus, it seems reasonable to ask if magnetic formations like coronal loops and 'flux tubes' are preceded by an electric event?
We know that solar flares reach Earth's magnetosphere in about 8 minutes, while CME's usually take a matter of days. This would imply electric vs. magnetic forms.
In other words, CME's are magneto-plasmic splash and shrapnel, while jets and e-missions are the electric impulses.

Reading through the above chicken and egg omelet it seems to boil down to questioning precedence of electric events.
If we start with Sol as generator (driven by whatever means chosen), then any charge-transfer circuits between sun and earth (and back to sun?) must have first a triggering potential / dis-equalibrium.

Following a possible terrestrial analogy, an electric 'leader' will first form, which is usually invisible to our optical detectors,
and then a plasmic circuit, of some archetype, is traced out.

Here some initial and persisting, central jet and 'rope-like' forms can possibly be observed:


http://www.space.com/26341-sunspot-s-ro ... video.html

http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/assets/gallery ... ops_sm.mp4

[CharlesChandler]

Following the general rule that "magnetic lines of force" are preceded by an electric impetus, it seems reasonable to ask if magnetic formations like coronal loops and 'flux tubes' are preceded by an electric event?

Yes. IMO the extremely powerful magnetic fields associated with sunspots are generated by Birkeland currents on steroids.

Rotating current produces a toroidal magnetic field:
http://charles-chandler.org/Geophysics/ ... lenoid.png

But unlike the "open field lines" in flux tubes coming out of granules, the field lines of sunspots close locally, in a classic toroidal form. The reasons are complex, but essentially, the photosphere is cooler, and thus allows more electron uptake than the hotter plasma beneath. As a consequence, the photosphere has a higher electrical resistance. This resistance slows the current down, meaning weaker magnetic fields, and less of a pinch. With less pinch, the electrons are dispersed, which further relaxes the magnetic field. If the dispersed current isn't capable of keeping the axial lines of force in the magnetic field consolidated, they will close locally, instead of following the current out into space.

At this point, the current is braked even further. When the magnetic field lines close in a local toroidal form, the current that was spiraling around them would then have to cross those lines of force to get out into space. But this generates a Lorentz force that deflects the currents in the direction of the magnetic field lines. So look again at the previous image, and imagine that the spiraling current is trying to keep heading upward, but then it encounters those toroidal lines. If the current is deflected by the lines of force that it created, the current splays outward.

http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Images/C ... on_wbg.png

We know that this outward splaying of electric currents happens, because we can see -- and measure -- the electric currents inside the penumbral filaments. In addition to the overall toroidal field of the sunspot itself, each filament generates its own field, and which follows the left-hand rule for electrons flowing out of the sunspot. We can also observe that the penumbral filaments have no footpoints where they splay outward -- they taper down to nothing in mid-flight. The sunspot's magnetic field dives back down into the photosphere, but the currents inside the penumbral filaments don't follow the magnetic lines. This is because the current is motivated by the attraction of electrons to the positive charge in the heliosphere, which won't allow the electrons to turn the corner and dive back down into the Sun. Instead, the E-field brings the current to a halt as soon as the filaments start heading back down. The deceleration relaxes the electrodynamic behaviors of the currents, and the electrons are dispersed by their electrostatic repulsion from each other. Then they are once again free to head straight out into space, responding to their attraction to the positive charge in the heliosphere.

We know that solar flares reach Earth's magnetosphere in about 8 minutes, while CME's usually take a matter of days.

Photons from a flare travel at the speed of light, taking a little over 8 minutes to get to the Earth. The maximum speed for the particles in a CME was 1/3 the speed of light. This was from an extremely rare proton storm, and it hit in less than an hour. More typically the particles take several or many hours to arrive, and sometimes take days.

As concerns solar flares, these are an extremely tough theoretical problem, since massive electrostatic discharges shouldn't be possible in the excellent conductivity of 6000 K hydrogen plasma -- arc discharges require resistance to preserve the charge separation until the breakdown voltage is achieved. What's the breakdown voltage inside an excellent conductor? Next to nothing. So what develops the potential for a flare? IMO, the key is the sudden disappearance of the toroidal magnetic field. Assuming that there is a high negative charge density inside the sunspot shaft, where the electric current is, and where +ions are getting evacuated by electron drag, +ions from the surrounding photosphere will get drawn toward the sunspot shaft. But this lateral flow of +ions is impeded by that extremely powerful magnetic field, which doesn't like charged particles crossing perpendicular to it. So we can expect a build-up of +ions outside of the magnetic field (shown as a green gradient in the following image), with a powerful E-field between the electrons inside the sunspot shaft, and the +ions outside of it.

http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Images/C ... ut_wbg.png

But what if that magnetic field suddenly goes away? Then there is nothing preventing an arc in that powerful E-field. Thus a flare is produced. This is consistent with the fact that there is an extremely high concentration of heavy elements that are highly ionized in CMEs (e.g., Fe XV). So flares don't occur in the typical 75% hydrogen, 25% helium mix of the photosphere -- something is attracting highly ionized heavy elements. This makes sense if the sunspot shaft is negatively charged, and if the magnetic field prevents +ions from entering the negative charge stream.

[seasmith]

seasmith wrote:
Following the general rule that "magnetic lines of force" are preceded by an electric impetus, it seems reasonable to ask if magnetic formations like coronal loops and 'flux tubes' are preceded by an electric event?

Charles wrote:

But unlike the "open field lines" in flux tubes coming out of granules, the field lines of sunspots close locally, in a classic toroidal form.

Although the two terms were used in the same sentence, perhaps we need to conceptually separate the forms of "loops" and "tubes".


Your "classic toroidal form" around sunspots seems to be more of an 'edge effect', i.e. the edge of the sunspot/hole:




Loops are more of a classical axial magnetic formation:




Hence the magnetic pressure, or magneto- dielectric force, resulting from an electric "dis-equalibrium or impulse" , forming the ""electric leader" and resulting 'flux rope', imo.

Toroidal magnetic forms on the sun are are probably more like eddy-currents,
while charge flows involving sun & planets, may be treated as actual circuital currents, again imho.



http://www.nrl.navy.mil/media/news-rele ... first-time


http://www.oberlin.edu/physics/catalog/ ... oroid.html

[CharlesChandler]

Your "classic toroidal form" around sunspots seems to be more of an 'edge effect', i.e. the edge of the sunspot/hole:

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by "edge effect". Here's what the field lines look like, with the Z axis being elevation.

http://charles-chandler.org/Geophysics/ ... lenoid.png

It's a classic solenoid, with an electric current wrapping around, causing a dense axial field, which then splays outward at the top (i.e., above the photosphere), and where the lines from the north pole wrap all of the way back down to the south pole.

In sunspot pairs, the polarity is always reversed, producing field lines that look like this, where each toroid has its own driving current, though the current rotates in opposite directions:

http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Images/C ... otPair.png

Indeed, it's as if there were a big bar magnet under the surface...

Loops are more of a classical axial magnetic formation:

...but of course we know that it's an electromagnet, which can only be produced by rotating currents. So the orientation of the B-fields tells the whole story of what the electric currents are doing. For the charged particles to be rotating, they have to be trying to move parallel to the B-field. So the general sense of the electric currents is perpendicular to the surface -- the charged particles are exiting the Sun, and spiraling as they go.

Sunspots form where the Sun's overall magnetic field is perpendicular to the surface. This means that an electric current exiting the Sun will be thrown into a spiraling path by the Lorentz force. In other words, it becomes a Birkeland current. But for reasons described in a previous post, the current density relaxes above the photosphere, so the magnetic field density relaxes, and the magnetic lines of force are allowed to close locally, in toroidal form. Around the outside of the toroid, the direction of the lines of force is opposite from inside the toroid. So if a sunspot forms next to one that is already established, it forms in an external magnetic field that is opposite. So its Birkeland currents will spiral the other way, to generate axial magnetic fields that agree with the inverted external field. This produces two interlocking solenoids.

[celeste]

Your "classic toroidal form" around sunspots seems to be more of an 'edge effect', i.e. the edge of the sunspot/hole:

Toroidal magnetic forms on the sun are are probably more like eddy-currents,
while charge flows involving sun & planets, may be treated as actual circuital currents, again imho.

seasmith, that idea is intriguing. One thing that has been puzzling me, is that while we have depictions of pinches happening more or less "out of the blue", (with the torus then forming at the pinch), what I've seen, is pinches forming where a filament crosses through some surface. As one example, it has been discussed in other threads, how the local chimney http://www.solstation.com/x-objects/lchimney.jpg appears to be a pinched filament, where the pinch occurs in the galactic plane (Gould's Belt as the torus). Now that does make sense to me. If we have a current flowing through the galactic plane, it should induce currents in the galactic plane material,and then the torus and pinch come from that.
I'm wondering if with the sun, rather than thinking of currents flowing TO the sun's surface, we have currents flowing THROUGH the sun's surface? Then we could have the "eddy-currents" being induced in the sun's surface (in the charged double layers?)?
Is my reasoning here correct: If we have some charged double layers (maybe some very large scale filament), and have a smaller scale but intense current filament flowing through it, then we should have a torus forming from the material in the large scale double layer.

[Solar]

Your "classic toroidal form" around sunspots seems to be more of an 'edge effect', i.e. the edge of the sunspot/hole:

Toroidal magnetic forms on the sun are are probably more like eddy-currents,
while charge flows involving sun & planets, may be treated as actual circuital currents, again imho.

seasmith, that idea is intriguing. One thing that has been puzzling me, is that while we have depictions of pinches happening more or less "out of the blue", (with the torus then forming at the pinch), what I've seen, is pinches forming where a filament crosses through some surface. As one example, it has been discussed in other threads, how the local chimney http://www.solstation.com/x-objects/lchimney.jpg appears to be a pinched filament, where the pinch occurs in the galactic plane (Gould's Belt as the torus). Now that does make sense to me. If we have a current flowing through the galactic plane, it should induce currents in the galactic plane material,and then the torus and pinch come from that.
I'm wondering if with the sun, rather than thinking of currents flowing TO the sun's surface, we have currents flowing THROUGH the sun's surface? Then we could have the "eddy-currents" being induced in the sun's surface (in the charged double layers?)?
Is my reasoning here correct: If we have some charged double layers (maybe some very large scale filament), and have a smaller scale but intense current filament flowing through it, then we should have a torus forming from the material in the large scale double layer.

Yes.

This was a concept put forth several years ago on the forum by myself as well. It’s gone now having been a part of Thunderbolts version 1.0 which “crashed”. The concept utilized the Hubble Tuning Fork diagram in conjunction with transitioning from elliptical through the various spiral forms based on the current density of initially ‘separate’ filaments forming elliptical galaxies (E0 to the far left) with 'elongation' and subsequent spirals developing as the filaments approached each other and began to undergo serpentine motions. In this approach the “barred spirals” versus classic spirals formed initially and onward from there depending on the makeup of the plasma environment (and/or polarity) as possible determinant of bifurcation (the “fork” aspect) separating E6 to S0 and SB0. In that Hubble Fork diagram the filaments are running into the screen. The "void surface' is of course running left to right on your screen.

That concept originated in conjunction with positing the rather vast regions of “voids” and “supervoids” constituting the ‘surfaces’ upon and/or through which the filaments intersect thereby inducing toroidal ‘spin’ and subsequent ‘return currents’ along the double-layer 'surface' of the plasma media composing said ‘surfaces’. Within the framework of the concept this is also how galaxies are induced to form “sheets”, “stings”, and “walls” – they are ‘surface’ phenomena of electricity interacting along the ‘outer membrane’ of these “bubbles” or "voids"; see "Void Astronomy".

Along with this, also workable to some extent, was the diagram of Halton Arp. Here, the “Parent Galaxy” constituted the main ‘surface’ interaction. Upon discharging along the axis the determinant of BL LAC (bottom) versus “Companion Galaxies” (top) was whether or not the discharge was directed ‘inward’ of a “bubble surface” versus ‘outward’ into larger regions of different plasma makeup. As has been put forth the 'surfaces' of plasma are phenomena wherein different regions of plasma 'self organize'.

Generally, at that time, a member of the old BAUT forum named “dgruss” was here. Though I can’t recall the name of the thread the forum membership treated his presence as an opportunity to ‘interview’ him regarding astrophysics. That member actually works in the astronomy field and In relation to this concept I had asked him whether or not any statistical work had been done determining if BL LAC versus “Companion Galaxies” along the Arp diagram correlated to the magnetic polarity of galaxies. His reply basically stated [to paraphrase] that this was something on his mind (possibly in conjunction with Arp) but that nothing had been done in so far as he had known.

It is interesting to see you guys coming to that 'surface' possibility. Very good option imho.

[CharlesChandler]

Is my reasoning here correct: If we have some charged double layers (maybe some very large scale filament), and have a smaller scale but intense current filament flowing through it, then we should have a torus forming from the material in the large scale double layer.

Yes.

I didn't understand a word of your explanation. Can you provide diagrams, and identify the physical forces responsible for the observations?

[Solar]

Is my reasoning here correct: If we have some charged double layers (maybe some very large scale filament), and have a smaller scale but intense current filament flowing through it, then we should have a torus forming from the material in the large scale double layer.

Yes.

I didn't understand a word of your explanation. Can you provide diagrams, and identify the physical forces responsible for the observations?

It doesn’t appear that you’ve understood Seasmith’s “edge effect” either but both descriptions stem from the same approach using different nomenclature applied to two different species (the Sun on one hand and the ‘surface of large scale “voids” on the other with electric currents intersecting the outer ‘surface’ (or ‘skin’) in both respective scenarios. Member Celeste also finds the basic principle understandable with the example of electric currents flowing through galactic plane material inducing tori such as might be exemplified via the Gould’s Belt.

I don’t see how a diagram of “sigmoid” producing electric currents electro-dynamically ‘piercing’ a ‘surface’, while simultaneously inducing charge exchange electric discharge phenomena, of an electric double-layer seperatrix ('boundary' if one prefers) between regions of different plasma specie will assist but perhaps this image of electric currents intersecting a plane (the ‘surface’ of a double layer in this case) might help:

Time is merely a sequence of events. There is no beginning nor ending. The material universe extends beyond the greatest distances we can observe optically or by radio means. It is boundless. The energy from hot material is recycled by electrodynamic (not thermodynamic) means. The material from dying galaxies is recycled into new galaxies. Details of material and energy distributions change on a small scale. Over any large volume and long time the gross features of the universe remain stable. I am not offering a finished product. I am attempting to instill thinking about the Endless, Boundless, Stable Universe. – Endless, Boundless, Stable Universe pg 16

Also see: A Timeless, Boundless, Equilibrium Universe at SAO/NASA ADS no less. Radio map at 144m:

I made a map of the southern sky at 144m wavelength (Reber 1968). The sky has high radio intensity all over except for low intensity patches along eh Milky Way, with the lowest at the galactic center. These are regions of ionized gas similar to the ionosphere. They absorb energy from the high intensity background behind them.

(...)

The 144m energy appears to be breaking radiation, between electrons and protons in intergalactic space.

(...)

Since this all pervasive electron gas is losing energy to all galaxies, some source must be supplying energy … photons of visible wavelength are probably the source.

(...)

Accordingly the intergalactic electron gas is an energy transducer from visible light of stars to long radio waves. These are absorbed by clouds of ionized gas in galaxies. The clouds eventually form into new stars, and the cycle is complete. The universe does not have a beginning, ending, or a boundary. It is timeless, boundless and in equilibrium over large volume.

Therefore, in one sense (but only in one sense), the "likes-like-like" activity Is seen via the "implosion" metaphor as an all pervasive, and seldom mentioned, "electron gas" continually converges with an almost radial inflow; but not quite radial until quite some distance away.

[CharlesChandler]

http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Images/C ... /retro.wmv

[upriver]

http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Images/C ... /retro.wmv

Yep.....




Plasmoids form from pieces of flux tube after a reconnection.....

CLUSTER OBSERVATIONS OF EARTHWARD MOVING PLASMOIDS IN THE EARTH'S MAGNETOTAIL
Plasmoids and/or flux ropes are important features associated with various kinds of eruptive processes in astrophysical plasmas, notably with the occurrence of magnetospheric substorms and solar Coronal Mass Ejections (CMEs). In the Earth's magnetotail, such loop-like magnetic structures are generated as the result of X-type reconnection and are commonly understood (according to the single plasmoid model) to travel tailward (anti-sunward). Cases of Earthward (sunward) moving plasmoids were presented and discussed in the Working Group 3 (WG3)



Figure 4: Schematic that shows nested plasmoid structures observed by the Cluster tetrahedron.
A schematic of the inferred orientation and the motion of the observed plasmoid with respect to the four Cluster tetrahedral configuration is shown in figure 4. The XZ plane extended plasmoid with a significant duskward speed will lead the Cluster spacecraft cross the plasmoid structure in the order of C1 -> C4 -> C3 -> C2. The fleet of Cluster spacecraft crossed the plasmoid structure in a "first in, last out" order indicative of the non-planar nested structure of the plasmoid. The large separation distance (around 1 Re) of the Cluster satellites in October 2002 provided constraints on the size and shape of the plasmoid structure. The scale size of the plasmoid observed on 28 October 2002 between 19:30 UT and 20:00 UT was calculated as 5.04 Re.

http://sci.esa.int/cluster/35962-highli ... -workshop/

[Maol]

Published in 2002, this brief

http://lasp.colorado.edu/media/projects ... 02_agu.pdf

is a proposal of a series of questions to be answered by datasets from the fleet of satellites in orbit at that time, Cluster, Image and Polar.

Outline

What have we leaned from previous investigations of
Ionospheric plasma in the magnetotail?

Sources | Losses | Structure | Dynamics

Why haven't we been able to answer
"important" questions?

Where and how do substorms start?

Is there an undetected cold plasma component
in the plasma sheet?

What kinds of questions should we be asking of
the the Cluster, Image, and Polar data sets?

Solar wind - the HELIOGENIC component
- H+ He+ + O6+ O5+
- Dominant during geomagnetically quiet intervals
- Entry by injection, diffusion, and convection.

…..and more……with data that was available at that time (2002). Undoubtedly, progress has occurred in the last decade.

“Blobs” of O+ in the plasma are mentioned.

What is the mechanism or process by which the “blobs” of H+ and O+ in the plasma may combine to become H2O, HO2, and OH found in Earth’s atmosphere? A process of catalysis involving metal atoms, perhaps Iron or Nickel, and the OH radical??

[seasmith]

~
Upriver,

Yes
A perfect example of an electro-dynamic transform associated with a common dielectric Surface effect (in this case, plasmodic surfaces formed at Earth's magnetosphere tail, at a so-called 'separatrix'.



To the long list of dielectrical surface phenomena (the general class),
could be added: plasmic bubbles, sheet lightning, Bloch walls, electric multi-layers " ", solar coronas, magneto-optic cavities, many classes of 'wave' fronts, membranes and etal; as specific charge configurations.


http://sci.esa.int/cluster/51745-the-ma ... etosphere/


[please don't get hung up on the 'R' word that ESA uses, as we all know the magneto-dielectric dynamics involved are much more complex than that]



kudus to you for first broaching the subject in this thread, and to Solar for being a way early poster

[celeste]

Is my reasoning here correct: If we have some charged double layers (maybe some very large scale filament), and have a smaller scale but intense current filament flowing through it, then we should have a torus forming from the material in the large scale double layer.

Yes.

I didn't understand a word of your explanation. Can you provide diagrams, and identify the physical forces responsible for the observations?

Charles,
Let's start here: Let's say, for the sake of argument, the visible surface of the sun is a single charged layer. Then make a sunspot into a point where some small scale current flows up or down through the sun's surface. Now zoom in close on the sunspot, to where we can approximate the sun's surface as a plane. The current flowing up or down through the sunspot, then generates toroidal motion of charged particles in the "plane" of the sun's surface. This is local torus centered on the sunspot (having nothing to do with larger scale currents,say due to the rotation of the sun)

What is interesting here, is that if we have toroids forming from material in the double layer that is the sun's surface, this material also draws itself into Birkeland currents, which now spiral up and down through the sun's surface. These loops and arches of material at the sun's surface, are driven by current flowing through the sun's surface.
What seasmith is getting at, is a primary current flowing to or away from the sun, can then explain these secondary "eddy currents" on the sun's surface. This is different from what some have considered. For example, we have thought of currents flowing around the sun (differential rotation by latitude or depth), which also would lead to secondary currents spiraling into and out of the sun.

[CharlesChandler]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, the visible surface of the sun is a single charged layer. Then make a sunspot into a point where some small scale current flows up or down through the sun's surface. Now zoom in close on the sunspot, to where we can approximate the sun's surface as a plane. The current flowing up or down through the sunspot, then generates toroidal motion of charged particles in the "plane" of the sun's surface. This is local torus centered on the sunspot (having nothing to do with larger scale currents,say due to the rotation of the sun)

I don't understand how a current flowing perpendicular to the surface would cause a toroidal motion of charged particles in the plane of the surface (i.e., parallel to the surface, right?).

What is interesting here, is that if we have toroids forming from material in the double layer that is the sun's surface, this material also draws itself into Birkeland currents, which now spiral up and down through the sun's surface. These loops and arches of material at the sun's surface, are driven by current flowing through the sun's surface.

I don't understand how the electric force that motivates a current through the surface (i.e., perpendicular to it) would also drive currents both up and down through the surface. If the overall electric field is between the Sun and the heliosphere, the lines of force will be perpendicular to the surface, and so too will be the motion of charged particles in that field, though the motion can get deflected by magnetic fields. Nevertheless, magnetic fields cannot deflect the current back into the Sun, going against the electric field.

Here it's important to note that the currents inside post-flare coronal loops are responses to charge imbalances across the surface due to the CME. This, of course, requires that the surface have a net charge. Then the CME ejects more of one charge than the other, creating an imbalance, and thus motivating a current. The current then naturally follows existing lines of magnetic force, producing coronal loops. But this has nothing to do with the steady-state electric current perpendicular to the surface, motivated by the electric field between the Sun and the heliosphere.

What seasmith is getting at, is a primary current flowing to or away from the sun, can then explain these secondary "eddy currents" on the sun's surface. This is different from what some have considered. For example, we have thought of currents flowing around the sun (differential rotation by latitude or depth), which also would lead to secondary currents spiraling into and out of the sun.

Here you're talking (if not thinking) of electric currents as fluids, which can lead to errors if you're not careful. A charged fluid gets its behaviors from the sum of the EM and fluid dynamic forces acting on it. This does not mean that EM inherits properties from FD, or vice versa. So while a fluid can fall into turbulent or eddy currents, due to its FD properties (inertia, friction, etc.), this does not mean that electric currents through fluids can be turbulent, or form eddy currents. So I'm questioning how physical this construct actually is.