Recovered: Iron Sun Theories

[bboyer]

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

Mozina. I agree more with your idea of material that at previous times had been accelerated/etched into space and the immediate solar atmosphere being drawn back along electromagnetic field lines and z-pinch within the filaments. You can see in the below still from your link, which is stunning to say the least, that as the event begins material suspended in the solar atmosphere above the newly forming coronal hoops is aglow from the light of those hoops. To me it signifies that an atmosphere is there, some aspects of which, did not react to the hoops.

If you watch the coronal loop activity in high resolution Hinode CAII-H SOT images, you'll notice that it's a very dynamic process. Materials flow up and down these electrified plasma paths. The material flows change direction in very short periods of time. The loops "crash' to the surface once the electron flows stop, or change. That behavior makes total sense when we recognize that there is electron flow involved in this process, but it blew the minds of the mainstream who tried to explain this plasma behavior only in terms of magnetic fields from a sun that provided all the power for this event. We can't explain that plasma flow behavior until we recognize that the sun's coronal is interacting with the universe, and there is an electronic interaction process in play.

http://solar-b.nao.ac.jp/news/061127Pre ... 0_0715.mpg

It appears that as the hoops progress; material within the immediate atmosphere is drawn (inflow) along the hoops and the dark streaking begins to form in a timely fashion after the "inflow" appears to have enough time to reach the hoops as they pass overhead. I think you are correct that z-pinch is going on inside the hoops but to me that would then seem to make what appears to be an "inflow" to possibly be Marklund convection of the surrounding area. Especially with regard to iron dust within the solar atmosphere. In the below still it seems that all three aspects are present i.e. the current flowing through the loops, the atmosphere set aglow, and the "inflow" of plasma overhead.

There are magnetic fields in play, as well as electrical currents to consider. The loops tend to form concentric threaded "ropes" according to Alfven, that are arranged by the ionization potential of each element. What you'd end up with in loops are concentric "tornado-like" threads of spinning plasma that carry current from one place to another.

The EM influences of these loops on outside materials is chaotic, but I'm sure it's attractive as well. Those darker "tadpoles" of matter that you saw flowing into the previous image seem to be "drawn' to the electrically active areas of the surface.

*If* true this is interesting further in relation to the Sun possibly having an iron surface because the etching of that surface would seem to produce a dusty-iron rich plasma atmosphere. Which is what some solar activities often resemble with movies from SOHO, TRACE etc. The 'ground' around these events is always puzzling in this regard because as the 'surface' is etched the spicules vanish as if they are so many little storms stemming from a conductive layer of such a dusty-iron plasma. You can see this with the electrified 'river' that flows into the foreground.

If you watch the first Trace RD image on my website closely, you'll notice an "etching" process occur along the lower right side of the image, and you'll see "dust" blowing around in the plasma wind that travels roughly from the bottom right toward the upper left side of the image. That "dust" si very obvious right after the CME event. You can even see it's effect on the surface reflection patterns when the dust start to settle back to the surface. That first TRACE RD image is very revealing IMO.

http://trace.lmsal.com/POD/movies/T171_000828.avi
http://trace.lmsal.com/POD/TRACEpodarchive4.html

Another interesting point is the possible hydrogen production/ P-P fusion processes. hehe... Yeah, I like that.

IMO, the greatest amount of fusion in the loops is P-P fusion, but there are also CNO fusion processes going on inside that loop as Carbon from the surface is fused into Nitrogen and then Oxygen inside the loops.

http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0512633

Note that these fusion processes are primarily occurring in electrical activity at the surface, but that same kind of thing could also be going on inside the core.

[bboyer]

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

According to Hannes Alfven from his book Cosmic Plasma, the plasmas inside the loops would form Birkeland ropes or filamentary tubes that are wrapped up inside larger filamentary tubes. From the twisting currents I’ve seen in the satellite images, I’m pretty sure that these coronal filaments form as he describes it.

From page 25:

II 4.5. Theory of Magnetic Ropes

Murkland (1978) has analyzed the structure of filamentary currents, 'magnetic ropes', collecting ionized gas from the surroundings (Fig. II.I.5). He has calculated the resulting stationary state when the inward drift of ions and electrons towards the axis of a filament is matched by recombination and outward diffusion of the neutral gas. The equilibrium density of the ionized component normally has a maximum at the axis. However, under certain conditions the filament may be a cylindrical shell with an ion density minimum at the axis. Magnetic ropes have been observed by in situ measurement in the ionosphere of Venus (see III.5.3).

In the case off a partially ionized gas mixture, a temperature gradient will cause the radial transport to depend on the ionization potential, so that in general, the elements with the lowest ionization potential are brought closest to the axis. We may expect the elements to form concentric hollow cylinders whose radii increase with ionization potential.

Quite generally, it seems likely that for a rather wide range of parameters, a current through a partially ionized plasma is able to produce element separation (IV.3).

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:43 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

http://arxiv.org/abs/0710.2563

This is a very interesting paper IMO. It describes the changing "electron density" in the solar atmosphere during flare events. How can they even talk in terms of electron densities in plasma and not acknowledge that these events are driven by electrical current flows? IMO this data is a "smoking gun". "Electron density" is evidently an acceptable buzzword, whereas "electron flow" is not.

[bboyer]

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "SeaSmith"

Solar Jets

There is probably a third source, namely the universal wind. In other words, the power of the universe *flows* though everything, including galaxies.....

Agreed Michael, there probably is.

Could the solar minimum phase be a charging period (via Cosmic L-Waves )until a proximate charge density is garnered by the solar anode;…..

[ Somebody else had previously used the term earlier, somewhere I think, in this forum. ]


There also seems likely a third source of solar emission, (besides ‘wind’ and CME’s), occasionally seen as a trace “jet” which clearly precedes the lower energy coronal loops, hinting at a more complex element-ary redistribution somewhere below the surface.

http://trace.lmsal.com/POD/movies/T171_000719_gun.mov


I’m re-printing this movie link from earlier posting because I still haven’t figured how to capture a freeze-frame, and the TRACE photo stills of the solar jets seem to have vanished without a trace.
&^%$#@!

Anybody have a better link?


Last edited by SeaSmith on Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total

[bboyer]

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "biknewb"

Anybody have a better link?

<link>

The link is just a little too long. Delete the last "[/img]" and you get this:

[bboyer]

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:29 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "biknewb"

There also seems likely a third source of solar emission, (besides ‘wind’ and CME’s), occasionally seen as a trace “jet” which clearly precedes the lower energy coronal loops, hinting at a more complex element-ary redistribution somewhere below the surface.

http://trace.lmsal.com/POD/movies/T171_000719_gun.mov

When looking at these jets, I have the impression that they curve. It is almost like they are the starting point of a giant loop. The rest of the loop is invisible and/or out of frame. This would explain the high velocity: larger loop, larger velocity.
OTOH everything in the solar atmosphere is curved. Currents and magnetic fields... not a straight line anywhere.

[bboyer]

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "SeaSmith"

biknewb,

Yeah, just scratch that picture. Although they distinctly mention the jets in their description, our low-res version doesn't do justice.

The photosphere is in perpetual agitation, from the extreme gas swirls that come and go unceasingly. One can see dark spots there corresponding to colder zones on the surface of the Sun and where the magnetic field extremely disturbs the passage of heat from the core towards the photosphere. When these sunspots grow bigger and reach their maximum intensity, one observes eruptions, protuberances and jets of charged particles.

Really need to see the trace.lmsal movies....

~

[bboyer]

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

There also seems likely a third source of solar emission, (besides ‘wind’ and CME’s), occasionally seen as a trace “jet” which clearly precedes the lower energy coronal loops, hinting at a more complex element-ary redistribution somewhere below the surface.

http://trace.lmsal.com/POD/movies/T171_000719_gun.mov

I’m re-printing this movie link from earlier posting because I still haven’t figured how to capture a freeze-frame, and the TRACE photo stills of the solar jets seem to have vanished without a trace.
&^%$#@!

Anybody have a better link?

That's an amazing movie. Thanks for pointing it out. I don't think that a single freeze framed image would do that phenomenon any justice at all.

It's hard for me to tell if that phenomenon is due to mostly internal influences or from external influences. I suspect that both of them apply, and I think it's likely to require a strong external component. I can't help but think that we're looking at the effect of a relatively concentrated cathode ray, or electron flow from space striking the surface of the sun at that location. Something is certainly causing that plasma near the surface to fly off the surface at a very high rate of speed, but it's trajectory out into space would suggest that the plasma in question is *highly* attracted to something that is a great distance from the sun itself. The other interesting aspect to consider is that the surface in that location is highly active already, meaning it's experiencing a strong current flow through that surface area already.

There must also be some internal process in play here because these active regions on the surface tend to rotate with the surface, as opposed to aligning themselves in fixed positions relative to the universe. In addition, there is a Parker spiral of EM waves that flow around the sun and are themselves moving, and rotating waves of energy. It's certainly a complex electrical interaction that we're witnessing.

[bboyer]

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:06 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "SeaSmith"

Michael wrote:

"Parker Spiral"

Right, the helisperic current sheet we depicted earlier, elsewhere, modeling spiral galaxies. An externaly manifested dynamic, (and a terrific computer generated image).
As to the possible 'jets', was harkening back to some Tokamak models i drug in on page one, ( which mgmirken excelently elaborated with a splendid graphical review), showing ' toroidal/poloidal transition zones, kinks, bends, local equatorial expansions, etc.'
All Plasmoidal-sub-surface type dynamics one might suspect of pinching and Radiating.
Of course somehow, the inner and outer observed fluxes would dovetail, as you pointed out.

~

Last edited by SeaSmith on Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total

[bboyer]

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

Michael,

If you are still on, could you give us a quick synpsis of "Parker spiral"?

Ta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_spiral

This will give you an overview of the phenomenon. As the sun's surface rotates, the spiral itself rotates along with it. FYI, the current sheet seems to be wavy, just uprivers external wave model might predict.

[bboyer]

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:50 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "SeaSmith"

From Galaxy Rotations and Plasmas-focus ........topic

(click to view larger image)

[bboyer]

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

From Galaxy Rotations and Plasmas-focus ........topic

It seems to me that this same shape is repeated over and over again in nature, in solar systems and in galaxies. The common denominator seems to be a requirement for a heavy mass concentration in the middle that concentrates the flow of electricity and plasmas streams though that mass object(s). It may very well be that the center of our universe is also composed of one or more heavy mass objects as well, which serve to concentrate the flow of current and plasma in and around a galaxy. Stars react to the current flow of galaxies, the way that planets react inside a solar system. The EM forces of this plasma flow tend to concentrate mass particles (stars or planets) to settle themselves around the equitoral regions of the heavy mass object, as defined by the spin axis of the heavy mass core object(s).

[bboyer]

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "SeaSmith"

It may very well be that the center of our universe is also composed of one or more heavy mass objects as well.

Would, or do, you differentiate between mass and charge?
(or mass/massless charge)

[bboyer]

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:14 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=24089

I just wanted to mention this article. IMO it bolsters the case for heavy elements within suns. In a mass separated solar model, it would not be surprising to see a carbon rich atmospheres on stars. It all depends on which elements a star is rich in, and whether or not it's currently electrically active.

[bboyer]

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "biknewb"

[quote="Michael Mozina]
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=24089

I just wanted to mention this article. IMO it bolsters the case for heavy elements within suns. In a mass separated solar model, it would not be surprising to see a carbon rich atmospheres on stars. It all depends on which elements a star is rich in, and whether or not it's currently electrically active.[/quote]

From the article:

leaving an essentially bare stellar nucleus with a surface of 50 percent carbon and 50 percent oxygen.

Maybe I am an ignorant cosmologist, but in chemistry you cannot have carbon and oxygen together without a burning reaction.