The Aether Theory of Relativity

[Michael V]

marengo,

From the diagram 11.1 on page 35, then by Pythagoras (not by Pythagorous: typo alert):

ro2 = (ro v/c + rr v/c)2 + rr2

but that is not what you have concluded. Explain please.

You then immediately after that, via a "hence" as the only explanation, include the Lorentz Factor for some reason. Where then did you derive the Lorentz Factor?, and why is it suddenly included without explanation?.


Michael

[Aardwolf]

You mean you're assuming they would be different while also assuming the stucture of an electron and assuming how it should behave.

Dont you believe that electrons orbit the nucleus in specific shells?

I believe such a theory exists.

Any way I had another thought. The Large Hadron collider fires protons at a target at an energy of 7 teravolts. Without relativistic mass effect it would only get to 1/15000 of that. Work out the figures for yourself.
So according to you the LHC cant get to 7teravolts. But we mustn't let your beliefs be damaged by facts, must we?

More relativistic nonsense. The mass is never measured, only the energy released is measured, and this is just the conversion of kinetic energy. The mass never increases. Even Einstein rejected that crap;

It is not good to introduce the concept of the mass M = m/√(1 - v2/c2) of a moving body for which no clear definition can be given. It is better to introduce no other mass concept than the ’rest mass’ m. Instead of introducing M it is better to mention the expression for the momentum and energy of a body in motion.

[viscount aero]

You mean you're assuming they would be different while also assuming the stucture of an electron and assuming how it should behave.

Dont you believe that electrons orbit the nucleus in specific shells?

I believe such a theory exists.

Any way I had another thought. The Large Hadron collider fires protons at a target at an energy of 7 teravolts. Without relativistic mass effect it would only get to 1/15000 of that. Work out the figures for yourself.
So according to you the LHC cant get to 7teravolts. But we mustn't let your beliefs be damaged by facts, must we?

More relativistic nonsense. The mass is never measured, only the energy released is measured, and this is just the conversion of kinetic energy. The mass never increases. Even Einstein rejected that crap;

It is not good to introduce the concept of the mass M = m/√(1 - v2/c2) of a moving body for which no clear definition can be given. It is better to introduce no other mass concept than the ’rest mass’ m. Instead of introducing M it is better to mention the expression for the momentum and energy of a body in motion.

Apparently CERN does measure the "mass":

excerpt from:
http://lhc-machine-outreach.web.cern.ch ... ch-faq.htm

"How much do the protons weigh in the LHC at 7Tev?

The energy of a proton is 7 TeV. Via E = mc2 the mass is simply 7 TeV/c2 - and these are the units usually used.

7 TeV/c2 divided by the rest mass .938272029 GeV/c2 gives us 7460.52 times the rest mass

Working in SI units we can do the same thing more explicitly:

At 7 TeV:
Energy = 7 *1012 *1.60206 *10-19 Joules
c= 2.99793 108 m/s
m = Energy/c2 = 1.2477-23 Kg


At rest (rest mass proton = mp):
Energy = mp c2 = 0.938272029 *109*1.60206*10-19 Joules (or just say mp = 0.938272029 GeV/c2 )
mp = Energy/c2 = 1.672009-27 Kg

m/mp = 7460.52 as before

This number is gamma i.e. 1/square root( 1- v2/c2) - from which you can easily calculate the velocity."

[Cavemann]

This is getting over my head but I did do some research and this is apparently relevant regarding 'relativistic mass'
I won't waste space by pasting the whole thing so you can just check the link. Scroll down to "Controversy"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_sp ... istic_mass

[viscount aero]

From the opening of the Aether Pages I find this:

"The Aether properties:-
Space is a solid matrix (the Aether) of contiguous identical Aether particles (termed aethons).
The density of aethons is a variable with respect to a more fundamental reference frame, the sub-Aether.
No other substance exist other than the Aether and the sub-Aether.
Aethon density is a function of Aether 'pressure' and vice-versa.
The Aether exhibits a propagation velocity of pressure transients determined by its physical characteristics.
In the static condition of the Aether each aethon takes up the average pressure of its neighbours.
Due to the innate difficuly of describing a substance so far removed from the material world the above list is neither definitive or exhaustive.

It can be seen that the Aether is very similar to a material substance, but constructed from aethons rather than atoms.

The internal pressure within the Aether we call the electric potential.
The propagation velocity of the Aether we call the gravitational potential.
Matter

Matter is constructed of atoms which in turn are constructed of a heavy nucleus orbited by electrons. The outer electron orbit determines the size of the atom. The total volume of the nucleus and electrons is about one million billionth of the volume of the atom. Thus matter is practically all Space.
According to the Aether hypothesis fundamental atomic particles must also be constructed of the Aether-- probably as some complexity of electric and gravitational potentials.
Thus matter moves as freely through the Aether as Light.
Time

Both matter and energy are constructed of the potentials of the Aether. Thus all movement at the Aether level is at the speed of light and Time is then simply Aether distance traversed at the local propagation velocity.
Thus Time is not even a separate entity let alone a dimension.
Velocity and Acceleration

Nothing can determine the Aether velocity of fundamental mass particles (and hence of all matter) other than the internal structure of that particle. The specific internal geometry of the rotating potentials therefore detrmines the degree and the direction of its Aether velocity. It therefore follows that the local gradient of the electric or gravitational potential modifies this internal geometry, and hence the particle velocity, as a function of the degree of gradient and the time exposure to it."

If anyone can understand that above excerpt then please explain it to me. I'm lost at the beginning. What is the "propagation velocity" of the aether provided that it is allegedly, according to marengo, a so-called "solid matrix." How can this solid matrix have any propagation? How does it propagate if it is everywhere? "Local propagation velocity"--what the hell is that? There is too much to recount that doesn't have any explanation provided.

Already this theory is unable to be read coherently. If the rest of the papers are like the beginning then how can marengo expect anyone to want to read it?

To this, I'm somewhat baffled this thread has even gone on as long as it has. If anyone can interpret the above except from the aether pages then I will eat my hat.

[viscount aero]

here is a whole page from aether pages:

"Force in Aether physics

Abstract

Home Page
The Aether physically supports the electric and the gravitational potentials everywhere. Fundamental mass particles (FMPs) create fields of potential difference which super-position to give the ambient field. FMPs and light are caused to accelerate at a rate proportional to the local ambient field gradient. Magnetism is not fundamental. The Strong and Weak forces are derivatives of the electric force.
Every physicist knows the equation F = ma (force equals mass times acceleration)
This equation implies that the acceleration of a massive body is caused by the application of a force to that body.
This may seem to be true for our macroscopic world but it is not the case for fundamental mass particles (FMPs) and therefore neither for matter in general.

In Aether Physics forces do not exist.

So what causes acceleration? The explanation is somewhat complex.
The Aether, which occupies all Space, possesses certain physical properties.
Two of these are local internal 'pressure' and local propagation velocity.
The propagation velocity is believed to be determined by the equation c2 = C/ρ--C is the internal 'pressure' and ρ the aethon density. This equation is identical to that applicable to matter.

In Aether physics the internal 'pressure' is taken to be the electric potential and the propagation velocity the gravitational potential.

Thus these two potentials are physical aspects of the Aether supported at every point throughout Space.

It is the case, however, that both matter and energy depend upon spatial differences in these two potentials.
For convenience differences may be measured relative to any arbitrary datum point; often an infinite distance from matter.
To be more exact, matter and energy are concerned with the local gradient of these potentials.

Aether physics proposes that all matter is constructed of fundamental matter particles (FMPs).

(FMPs and their internal construction are speculation. However much of Modern Physics is pure speculation, eg. virtual photons, gravitons, Higgs bosuns etc.)
FMP come in two main types--of either positive or negative charge. See the paper Matter in Aether Physics.
We may assume that a positive electric potential equates to an increased Aether 'pressure' relative to ambient pressure and a negative potential to decreased 'pressure' (but it could equally be the reverse).
The essence of charge is the capability to cause an equal electric potential relative to ambient at a set radius from the FMP.

The FMP generated potential is passed on through the Aether by aethon to aethon contact at the speed of light (see the paper The Electric Field in Aether Physics). The magnitude is calculated to diminish inversely with increasing distance from the source out to infinity.
Thus the charge generates an infinite field (over infinite time) of electric potential difference.

It is also proposed that an FMP causes an increase in local aethon density irrespective of charge polarity (see the paper Gravity in Aether Physics.
The increase in aethon density is proportional to the total mass.
The local increase in density is calculated to diminish with inverse distance from the source, thus creating a field of density difference extending out to infinity in a similar manner to the electric field.
The paper on Gravity demonstrates that the propagation velocity (gravitational potential) is an inverse function of aethon density.
Thus light slows the closer to a massive body.

As FMP potential fields are infinite in extent the field of each FMP necessarily overlaps the fields of all other FMPs in the Universe at every point in the Universe.
At every point the potential of each field super-positions (combines arithmetically) with the potentials of the infinity of the other fields.
The result is the local ambient potential.

It can be seen that the ambient potentials of the Aether vary according to their proximity to an (or group of) FMP. Thus the potential gradient also varies spatially.
If one considers just a single FMP inhabiting the Universe the gradient of the potential field diminishes with the inverse square of the distance from the source. The link between accelerating ability and field gradient is obvious.

The action of a potential gradient on light and matter

The paper, Gravity in Aether Physics, explains that light, passing tangentially to a massive body, is caused to bend towards the body by the gravitational potential gradient that it crosses.
This bending is the equivalent of an acceleration toward the body and is twice that of matter at the same point.

The paper proposes that the same mechanism which accelerates light also causes the acceleration of matter by bending the rotating internal electric potentials of the FMP.

It must be the case that the local ambient electric gradient super-positions upon the rotating electric potentials of the FMP--thereby distorting them and thus bending their paths.
The paths of a positive FMP are bent in the opposite direction to a negative FMP.
As described in the paper the bending of the internal paths of an FMP modifies the internal screw geometry which determines the Aether velocity of the FMP.
Thus the velocity of the FMP is changed at a rate proportional to the magnitude of the local potential gradient.

Action at a distance explained

Consider just two positive charges separated by a distance of Space. Each charge lies in its local ambient electric potential field which consists of the super-position of the two fields. But FMPs are not affected by their own field so in effect they lie only in the field of the other charge. Thus the gradients of those fields (pointing in opposite directions) accelerate each charge in the opposite direction to the other. Each charge responds to its local ambient field and has no knowledge of the body or bodies which caused that field.
The effect is transferred across Space by the prior establishment of the potential fields via aethon to aethon contact.

Thus both electric and gravitational ambient fields cause an acceleration of FMPs.

The gradient of propagation velocity has a much lesser acceleration effect on an FMP than the gradient of electric potential.
The Magnetic force

The magnetic force is not fundamental but a derivative of the electric field. See the paper Magnetism in Aether Physics.
The Strong and the Weak force

The Strong and the Weak forces are considered to be derivatives of the electric force in some manner similar to the inter-atomic forces. In these cases the operating range is short as at longer range the separate internal positive and negative charges effectively merge into a neutral body.
With short range forces the two particles affected are readily identified and appear to be creating a 'force' upon each other.

The acceleration of bulk matter

Bulk matter consists of a large quantity of positive FMPs combined with an equal quantity of negative FMPs.
The gravitational gradient acts upon each FMP individually irrespective of polarity such that they all accelerate identically.
On the other hand an electric gradient accelerates the +ve FMPs in the opposite direction to the -ve FMPs.
But the relative movement of the +ve to the -ve FMPs changes the strength of their own electric fields at the position of each other. Furthermore the centrifugal forces of -ve FMPs circing +ve FMPs (and vice versa) is destabilised. The consequence is that the charged particles do not accelerate away from each other continuously but merely restabilise in slightly different proximity to each other.

When one matter body comes into close proximity to another matter body the inter atomic electric forces act upon the surface atoms of each body at the point of contact. The surface atoms are accelerated apart. In moving apart they come closer to their neighbours within the body and so cause those atoms to also move away. This effect ripples through the body such that eventually (but in a very short time) the two bodies move apart. Either that or one body is continuously accelerated by continuous contact with the other.

Comments and criticisms please to MrAether

If you accept its validity please recommend this website to a Professor of Physics."

[viscount aero]

Here is another page:

"Gravity in Aether Physics

Home Page
Abstract

The gravitational potential is the local propagation velocity of the Aether. The presence of matter increases local Aether density which slows the propagation velocity. The effect diminishes with inverse distance from the source mass. The effect on light is identical to the predictions of GR except the speed of light can never go to zero. These same effects act on a fundamental mass particle causing it to accelerate at one half the rate of a tangential light ray at the same point in Space.
Non-Aether theories

Newton's theory of Gravity

Newton's theory of gravity demonstrated that every matter body, however large or small, creates a gravitational field extending out to infinity. The accelerating strength of the field is proportional to the mass of the source body and the inverse square of distance from the source.
But Newton's theory does not explain:-

the effects of gravity upon a light ray (in this paper light is used as an example of radiation of any frequency).
how a massive body causes a gravitational field.
how a gravitational field transmits from the source through Space.
what supports the field in Space.
how a gravitational field causes the acceleration of matter.
Einstein's theory of Gravity

Einstein's General Theory of Relativity gives an explanation of the affect of a gravitational field upon a light ray. The theory proposes that a massive source body warps the dimensions of Space surrounding that body. The change in the three distance dimensions modifies the velocity of light such that it slows close to a massive body.
By introducing the additional dimension of Time the theory also provides an explanation of the gravitational acceleration of matter.
But Einstein's theory does not explain:-

why and how Time is a dimension.
how Space can be simultaneously of three and of four dimensions.
how a massive body causes the warping of Space.
exactly what is being warped.
how the warping of Space transmits from the source throughout Space.
The Aether theory of Gravity

The theory states that the physical embodiment of the phenomenon of gravity lies in the local propagation velocity of the Aether as the gravitational potential.

The propagation velocity of the Aether is postulated to be c2 = C/ρ (an identical form to that of matter).
C is the internal 'pressure' and ρ the aethon density (see the properties of the Aether in the The Electric Field in Aether Physics
It is postulated that matter constantly generates new aethons thus increasing the local aethon density which diminishes with inverse distance from the matter body.
Hence, according to the propagation velocity equation, light slows on approaching a matter body.
Consequently the speed of light varies spatially notwithstanding that we are taught that it is a universal constant. The observed gravitational redshift, caused by the slower speed of light close to a massive body, amply demonstrates that the speed of light is not universally constant.

Thus the gravitational potential field is physically supported by the Aether.
Separately sourced fields necessarily over-lap and super-position upon each other at all points. Consequently the ambient gravitational field at each point in Space is the super-position of the individual fields of every matter body in the whole Universe--inversely diminished by distance and time delayed by the speed of light over that distance.
Cosmic redshift (see the paper Redshift) has an additional effect on the graviational field.

The behaviour of light

As stated above light moves slower the closer to a massive source.
Thus for light moving tangentially to the source, that part of the width of the beam nearest the source moves slower than that part furthest from the source. Consequently the beam continuously bends towards the source. The effect is identical to refraction.
This bending is the equivalent of an acceleration of the beam towards the source. The degree of this acceleration may be calculated to be proportional to the ambient potential gradient and is determined, for a totally tangential ray, to be twice the rate of a matter body positioned at the same point in Space.
The slowing of light at the surface of the Sun is only 4 parts in a million relative to that at Earth's orbit. This small effect nevertheless causes an acceleration (of light) at the Sun's surface of 56g.

The Aether theory predicts identical effects upon light to the General Theory of Relativity, except when close to very dense bodies.
This exception is of considerable importance.

The action of the gravitational field on matter

The theory accepts that the mechanism which acts upon light also causes the acceleration of matter.
In order to understand the action of the gravitational potential field on matter it is necessary to have some insight into the internal structure of fundamental mass particles (FMPs)--for the local ambient potential must somehow act upon the internal mechanism.
This insight can be obtained from the paper Matter in Aether Physics. The paper proposes that the Aether velocity of an FMP is determined by the specific geometric structure of the FMP.

It is postulated in the paper that an FMP is constructed of localised rotating electric potentials moving at the local speed of light. The paths of these rotating potentials move in a geometry which translates a certain fraction of the rotation velocity into velocity in a specific direction. Thus the FMP effectively screws its way through the Aether. The degree of screw geometry determines the Aether velocity of the FMP.

The local ambient potential gradient bends these paths just as it bends a light ray and in so doing modifies the degree of screw geometry.
Now the directions of the internal paths may be theoretically broken down into components either in line with or orthogonal to the ambient gradient. For spherically rotating paths these components will be of equal length and duration. As the ambient gradient bends only the orthogonal paths the gradient modifies the FMP geometry for only one half the time. This might be the reason why matter accelerates at one half the rate of light at the same point in Space.

The Aether Theory of Gravity acknowledges that the exact internal mechanism and geometry of an FMP is not known. Thus the action of gravity, and also of electric fields, upon matter cannot at present be fully explained.

How Matter cause a Gravitational Field

It is postulated that matter generates an increased Aethon density ρm within itself.
Thus the internal speed of light is given by

It may be calculated that the increase in Aethon density diminishes with inverse distance in a similar manner to the electric potential.
Thus , where c is the speed of light at an infinite distance.
It can be seen that, no matter how large the matter effect ρm, the propagation velocity can never reach zero.
This is important as it precludes such ideas as event horizons and Black Holes.

We may take ρm/ρinf to be Am where m is the gravitational radius of the source body and A = 2 (light accelerates at twice the rate of matter).
Thus the gravitational potential for small values of m/r (such as obtained at the surface of normal star).

The increased aethon density within mass is postulated to derive from the continuous creation of new aethons at a rate proportional to the amount of mass.
Conclusion

The gravitational potential is a fundamental characteristic of the Aether. No special mediating particles are required. The gradient of the potential is shown to accelerate both light and matter. The effect on matter is credible but does not have a complete explanation. The Aether theory is more explanatory than competitor theories. The theory does not make incredible predictions such as light slowing to zero velocity."

[Michael V]

Aardwolf,

...only the energy released is measured...

I was looking for some evidence that this might be the case, but have so far failed to find it. I am curious how they go about measuring and confirming the kinetic energy transferred.


Michael

[marengo]

More relativistic nonsense. The mass is never measured, only the energy released is measured, and this is just the conversion of kinetic energy. The mass never increases. Even Einstein rejected that crap;

I new it would be a waste of time trying to convince you.

The energy is measured at the input. I expect they read their electric meter. Ha Ha.
Take the energy as mv^2/2. Put in the rest mass of a proton and the speed of light for v.( they do go at near that speed).
Then compare that energy with the 7 teravolt input and you will find it 15000 times larger. Thus the moving mass must be 15000 times larger than the rest mass.

Aardwolf will never agree even though the calculation is so simple.
DOES ANYONE ELSE ACCEPT RELATIVISTIC MASS INCREASE?

[marengo]

From the diagram 11.1 on page 35, then by Pythagoras (not by Pythagorous: typo alert):

ro2 = (ro v/c + rr v/c)2 + rr2

but that is not what you have concluded. Explain please.

You then immediately after that, via a "hence" as the only explanation, include the Lorentz Factor for some reason. Where then did you derive the Lorentz Factor?, and why is it suddenly included without explanation?.

How on Earth did you get that equation? You are not employing a right angled triangle. P is at point x,y,z.
The hypotenuse is r_0, The vertical side is y and the horizontal side is r_0v/c + x.
Come on Michael this is simple stuff.
Just solve the quadratic 11.1 to get 11.2

[marengo]

m/mp = 7460.52 as before

You get 7461, I got 15000. The difference is not important as both figures prove that the relativistic mass effect exists.

[marengo]

To this, I'm somewhat baffled this thread has even gone on as long as it has. If anyone can interpret the above except from the aether pages then I will eat my hat.

That is not a scientific comment.
Please state one example of what you dont understand and I will explain. But please do not ask a question about the Aether properties. I couldn't stand it after what I have already said many times over.

[marengo]

Comments and criticisms please to MrAether

If you accept its validity please recommend this website to a Professor of Physics."

What is the point of being obscure?
Find a specific question and then ask it.

Thanks for publicising my Aether pages.

[marengo]

Here are some general comments so far.
Posters generally seem to not believe in relativistic effects. I have given many examples.Perhaps the LHC is the most obvious. I just cannot understand non-believers in the face of so many facts.

Posters do not understand the fundamentals of the mechanism of physics and will not stop criticizing postulates, which you cannot do.

michael V is the only one attempting to understand Aether Theories. I applaud him for that. But even he does not recognise a right angle triangle when he sees one.

[Michael V]

marengo,

How on Earth did you get that equation? You are not employing a right angled triangle. P is at point x,y,z.
The hypotenuse is r_0, The vertical side is y and the horizontal side is r_0v/c + x.
Come on Michael this is simple stuff.
Just solve the quadratic 11.1 to get 11.2

Well, it should be straightforward, but I am struggling to comprehend your documents:

elecfield.gif

The only apparent right-angle on the diagram is at Q, but I made the wild assumption that the line rr is also perpendicular to the x-axis, hence:
r02 = (r0 v/c + rr v/c)2 + rr2

so, the hypotenuse is r0, which is what I assumed

the x-axis from Q to the line rr forms the horizontal, which is also as I had assumed, hence:
r0 v/c + rr v/c
except that you have transposed that length to a line from P to the y-axis

So we are in some agreement, but you have somehow made x = rr v/c (please explain)

And you use y as the vertical rather than rr (indicating that z=0 and can be ignored) which is fair enough, but worth mentioning explicitly IMO.

Anyhow, I also fail to see how, in this instance, introducing gamma serves to "Just solve the quadratic 11.1 to get 11.2".

Hold on a minute, I've just noticed mention of point R: the point where rr meets the x-axis. Can I assume then that we are considering all this from the point of view of frames at Q and R?.

Where have you derived gamma?, as I have still failed to find this.

Also, you have still not answered my query regarding "aether pressure". In an atomic iron matrix, we might describe the mediating forces between the atoms as being gravity and electromagnetism. What is the equivalent mediating mechanism between aethons that allows for density and pressure variations?. Perhaps this is the job of the sub-aether?.


Michael