Our world is a ...hologram?

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What_is_that
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Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by What_is_that » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:44 am

When I first read this I kinda just sat there in disbelief. I'm no genius nor am I extensively educated in science and physics, but despite all that I couldn't help but be dumbfounded at the absurdity of this.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... ?full=true

How has science been allowed to stray so far into the realm of fantasy?

Is there any basis of truth in this? Based on everything I've read about the electric universe, which is pretty much everything on the thunderbolts.info website and the electric universe book and the videos, I can't help but think this is ridiculous.
No one - including Hogan - is yet claiming that GEO600 has found evidence that we live in a holographic universe. It is far too soon to say. "There could still be a mundane source of the noise," Hogan admits.
You better believe it!

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:06 pm

Hi what is that,
Holographic principle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle
Scanning through the above article it appears that the theory is built on a theory which is built on a theory which is built....
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
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junglelord
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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by junglelord » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:04 pm

Holograms are real. So the idea its all theory is not true. The Holographic Principle is more appropriate.
The idea of a full hologram is not correct, especially when they go off on the tangent that its all a hologram.
I do not buy that. But the holographic principle and the fractal principle are in operation from small to universal.
So if you can understand that, then you get the holographic pricture.
8-)
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by Grey Cloud » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:33 pm

Hi JL,
You know me pal, even holograms and holographs are too physical for me. :D The article I linked is all based on black holes, string theory and maths etc. :roll:
BTW it's a pity you live in Canada as I know a band, called TVOD, who may be looking for a new drummer, you'd fit right in.

Just had a thought - 2012: We may experience some downtime due to a system upgrade. :shock: ;)
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by junglelord » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:52 pm

Actually its 2112...
;)
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:D
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by What_is_that » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 pm

I understand the principle of holograms. I understand holographic technology as we have developed it. But to apply them to the universe as a whole sounds far fetched. Am I understanding it correctly? A projected 3 dimensional image? onto what? Or is it a 2 dimensional image that gives the illusion of 3d like those things you tilt from side to side? It sounds like a movie to me. The light from the projector encodes the data of the movie onto the screen and the screen acts like the event horizon "boundary" they talk about.

I'm a literalist mostly. This is what attracted me to the Electric theory. Its grounded in reality and so far can be backed up with experiment.

When I read about this holographic idea the first thing to come to mind is what is the information? Where is it coming from? Is it a projection? What is it being projected onto, our eyes?

To me reality is real. It is physical and I can touch and interact with it. Ideas like this destroy that reality and suggest its all fake which to me starts to delve into philosophy and not science. Its like the question of if a tree falls and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound? I say yes. Why? Because that is how it works. Because to say it does not suggests there is some entity or conscious in the world we live in that will detect if another living being is around and then generate an appropriate sound, like a computer program. This theory seems to suggest that we are living in a computer program. They use terms like bits and pixels to describe parts of the theory.

From the wikipedia article
The holographic principle states that the entropy of ordinary mass (not just black holes) is also proportional to surface area and not volume; that volume itself is illusory and the universe is really a hologram which is isomorphic to the information "inscribed" on the surface of its boundary [6].


This hologram "inscribes" information on the surface/boundary of the universe, I assume hes talking about. Would this not break one of the laws of physics that what was it...energy or matter... cannot be created or destroyed? The way I perceive reality is that its always changing. Each day is new. How does this 'hologram' know whats new and whats not in order to create these new states (days)? Each new state, if understand using their terminology, is new information, and thus new energy. Am I reading this correctly? I think I have it wrong.

What is the surface of its boundary? The edge of the universe?

If this hologram finally does reach the end of the universe does that mean we'll finally be able to see what the edge of the universe looks like when the light finally comes to us in God knows how many years from now? It would have to bounce back in order to keep the hologram real and so we can perceive it.

To put it basically, how I understand this theory, if the universe is a hologram, then so must everything in it be. Then that means the food I ate earlier wasn't real. So where did the information come from for that food? How was it projected into space right where I placed it and manipulated it?

Oi, no wonder people never bother to question any of this. I'm sure no one aside from the people who created all this even knows what it all means.
But the holographic principle and the fractal principle are in operation from small to universal.
So if you can understand that, then you get the holographic pricture.
Could you explain that? How would it relate to the physical world we live and interact in?

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by Grey Cloud » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:12 am

Hi What is that,
You appear to be having some trouble getting your head around this. :D I wouldn' worry overmuch about anything a scientist says as they can seldom follow the logic of their own ideas.
You wrote:
To me reality is real. It is physical and I can touch and interact with it.
That statement would stil apply even if you were nothing more than a brain in a vat wired up to a computer. :shock:
To put it basically, how I understand this theory, if the universe is a hologram, then so must everything in it be. Then that means the food I ate earlier wasn't real. So where did the information come from for that food? How was it projected into space right where I placed it and manipulated it?
If you follow the logic from the first sentence then you too are part of the hologram. And this is where, to me, the scientists' logic breaks down. They somehow think that although they are part of the hologram they, somehow, are able to think independently of the hologram. They also convince themselves that they are smarter than that which built the hologram because they have discovered that it is a hologram.

This holographic principle is based on what Black Holes can or cannot do and if you have read the EU literature etc then you will know that the most significant aspect of Black Hole theory is the holes which are in the theory.

Having said that, there is a large area of philosophy which addresses the the question of what is real. This is beyond the scope of this thread but there are various other threads on this forum which address the issue in one way, shape or form (mostly in the Human Question and NIAMI forums). In Western philosophy it is the Empiricist versus Rationalist debate and virtually the whole of Eastern philosophy takes the Rationalist stance.
Rest easy, a virtual beer tastes as good as a real beer. ;)
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

kevin
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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by kevin » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:16 pm

I have personally observed on several occasions the whole scene about myself going into a sort of jello wobbly state, the last time was when a strong earthquake hit central england.
I could sense SOMETHING, I didn't know what, but at such times I have felt such it has been related to the local alteration in the detectable flow rates.
I therefore stayed up into the night trying to detect an alteration, I did not expect to be thrown onto the floor as I was, or the strange noise.
I jumped straight up and was trying to dowse with my rods the flows, they were violently , almost pulling out of my hands in one direction, but the really odd bit was the jello scene, luckily I have viewed this affect at several megalithic sites in the past and was sort of able to watch it.
I have thought long and hard about the possible reasons, and a holographic existance answers best the reasons.

Eveything is what it is, but it may not exist thousands of times per second, an on'off switching senario where the status quo is maintained as long as the basic normal circulations about the planet remain relatively stable.
As the flows inputs vary spherically constantly driven in an orchestra fashion by the resistance imparted by all the other spheres to the FLOW of the aether, at times sudden overloads of one half of the duality of the aether may occur, thus causing a blip in the on/off switching, hence the damage as the reset fails to maintain the matter it meets.

When I have encountered similer jello moments as I think of them at megalithic sites, my dormant side of my brain kicks in, and I can litterally hear it, normally it is pleased to recognise where we come from ,as it states, i strangely end up as a sort of spectator between two voices , whether a sudden release of some chemical causes this I don't know?

It is why I started to think out about a fixed matrix system, where the illusion of movement is caused by the flow directions of the aether, and makes me concentrate on the aether and not on the so called physical, which does have this holographic temporary basis, imho.
kevin

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by Grey Cloud » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:47 pm

Hi Kev,
Thanks, I was trying to avoid going into that side of things as the (young?) guy is obviously quite spooked by the notion. :roll: :lol:
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

What_is_that
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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by What_is_that » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:19 am

Grey Cloud wrote:Hi Kev,
Thanks, I was trying to avoid going into that side of things as the (young?) guy is obviously quite spooked by the notion. :roll: :lol:
I assume you're talking about me. :)

I'm not necessarily spooked in as much as confused or ...perplexed. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion that what I see and feel might not be real.

As for Kevin, I'm must apologize but I don't understand what you're trying to say. I'm guessing you're saying that there is a balance in the aether and that you're detecting changes in that balance? How does that apply to a holographic universe?

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by Grey Cloud » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:53 am

Hi what is that
Have read of this. http://deoxy.org/w_nature.htm
It is quite long but an easy enough read. It will hopefully introduce you to some different ways of thinking about things. Or if you want to jump in at the deep end you could look at Kevin's Dowsing and the Lattice thread but that's even longer than the above essay.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

mharratsc
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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by mharratsc » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:46 am

Someone needs to take a second to read exactly what the definition of a hologram is... our universe is a 3-D representation of an 'actual' universe that is located elsewhere?? And being that we're part of the universe, that means *we* are holograms also??

Well I can tell you what- the *real* me better start getting his arse to work and help me get crap done, or else I'm getting a travel visa and heading over to the *real* universe and kicking his arse :P

Mike H.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by Steve Smith » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:58 pm

I notice that they never mentioned David Bohm, the author of a book entitled, Wholeness and the Implicate Order. Bohm coined the term holomovement.

Any single "piece" of our universe contains a representation of the whole universe, just like a hologram. If you shatter a glass-plate hologram into a thousand pieces, each piece retains the entire holographic image, except from a different viewing angle. Thus, the universe, because it represents its wholeness through its parts, is like a hologram. It is implicate.

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by StevenJay » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:10 am

Grey Cloud said: [...] the most significant aspect of Black Hole theory is the holes which are in the theory.

Ha! I love it, GC! In fact, it earned a spot on my list of all-time favorite quotes. :)

I have a bit of input regarding the holographic nature of what we call "reality," in the form of a simple mind experiment I came up with several years ago. But, even though it's related to this topic, I think it would probably be more appropriate in the "What Is Real" thread.
It's all about perception.

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Re: Our world is a ...hologram?

Post by StevenO » Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:19 am

This article could'nt highlight the current state of theoretical physics any better :D

You have this expensive 'gravitional wave' detector that is basically doing nothing except generating noise...
So you get bored...
So you come up with something:
"Incredibly, I discovered that the experiment was picking up unexpected noise," says Hogan.
You don't say that, but instead make some fantastic claims:
"GEO600 has not detected any gravitational waves so far, but it might inadvertently have made the most important discovery in physics for half a century."
"If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram."
"The idea that we live in a hologram probably sounds absurd, but it is a natural extension of our best understanding of black holes, and something with a pretty firm theoretical footing."
"Ultimately, we may have our first indication of how space-time emerges out of quantum theory."
and that is no problem at all since..
"It's intriguing," he says. "But it's not really a theory yet, more just an idea."
But that hologram principle was also just an idea in the first place...
In the 1990s physicists Leonard Susskind and Nobel prizewinner Gerard 't Hooft suggested that the same principle might apply to the universe as a whole.
and it is all no problem because if Black Holes do not exist, everything you imply about them is true according to first order logic.

but if this gets you this front-page article in the New Scientist...wow!

Einstein never said wave propagation was part of his General Relativity theory. He merely apologized for not giving an explanation how the mechanism of the deformation of space-time works:
Einstein himself admits that he cannot give any explanation for the properties with which he is endowing the “space” in which the physical processes represented by his theories take place. “Our only way out,” he says, “seems to be to take for granted the fact that space has the physical property of transmitting electromagnetic waves, and not to bother too much about the meaning of this statement.”
First, God decided he was lonely. Then it got out of hand. Now we have this mess called life...
The past is out of date. Start living your future. Align with your dreams. Now execute.

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