What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

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What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by Influx » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:42 pm

The standard model claims that gravity is some kind of distortion of the space-time caused by the presence of mass. To be able to make this claim, one would think, they, the proponents of the standard model, need to have a pretty good understanding of the space-time continuum? And to a casual observer this may appear to be the case. Unfortunately the scientists have no idea what is space and what are it’s properties. Then how can they say that gravity is the effect of mass on the structure of space if they do not know what space is?
There are three things in science that no one has been able to explain, gravity, the electric field and the magnetic field. For a simple reason that all of the three effects cause action at a distance as if by magic. For all the math and theories trying to explain these effects we are still no closer to understanding the effects then when they were first discovered! We know that electrons have charge, when this charge flows it produces a force that we call the magnetic field. But what that field is made out of, we have not the slightest clue. The same is true with gravity and the electric field. A great deal of study and effort has gone into understanding how a magnetic field is made, but not what IT is.
If a charge flows through space it produces a magnetic field, well known laws, but is this magnetic field made of something or is it an effect of what the space is made out of, whatever that may be. The charge carriers must interact with the structure of space at a subatomic level to produce the magnetic field? If this is the case than the medium of the structure of space is made of something that can be effected by the charge?
On the other hand can flowing charge make the magnetic field out of something that has as of yet eluded all attempts at detection?
If I throw a rock into the lake, the waves generated do not have substance but still can effect anything on the surface of the lake. Perhaps the magnetic field is the same, the flowing charge is the rock and the magnetic field is the wave in the structure or fabric of space. The “wave” flowing past the atomic structure of a metal induces a force similar to how torque is generated inside the induction motor. The only difference is scale. Could gravity be a similar induction, only towards a common center?
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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by junglelord » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:50 pm

I believe the Aether is a Rotating Magnetic Field.
I believe that the Magnetic Flux comes from the Aether.
I believe all Magnetic Fields are made of Dual Vortex Structures in the Aether.
Howard Johnson has shown this to be the actual structure of magnetic fields.
Iron Filings are just tiny magnets in a field, they do not show you the fields structure.
The North Vortex is larger and stronger then the South.
Both appear together at both poles.
It is a Quadrature arrangment.
With four intersecting Vortex Field Structures.
He makes the point, as does Maxwell, Faraday and Tesla.
The Fields are made of a real substance.
It has Mechanical Properties of a Gyroscope.
It is Aether as they always said it was.
The Aether Field is comprised of countless Rotating Magnetic Field Vorticies.

All Aether models say Light is not EM.
If it was it would be bent by EM.
It is bent by Gravity.
Gravity and Electricity obey the Inverse Square Law.
Light is pure Aether in Smiths model and is pure angular momentum in APM!
It is not EM and that is why EM does not bend it.
Only Gravity bends it and here is why.
Gravity and Electricty are derived from Aether.
The Electric Field varies for EM.
The Tempic/Aether Field varies for Gravity.
Hereing lies the secret.
EM is a Electric/Tempic Field.
Gravity is a Tempic/Electric Field.
With gravity the Tempic field varies while its E Field remains constant.
With electricity the Electric field varies while its Tempic Field remains constant.
Light being purely Tempic is only varied by Gravity as Gravity is a varying Tempic Field!
E Fields cannot effect light therefore. Neither can Magnetic Fields.
That is Wilbert Smiths model.

Aether is the first dimension L and is Plancks Length.
Electricity is the second dimension, L^2
Magnatism is the third dimension, L^3
Each at right angles as the Rule of Quadrature applies.

The Blaze Labs Radiation Pressure Model for Gravity makes sense as well.
Spin Domains show that as TT Brown learned that Gravity is a constant variable.
Every movement of every planet changes gravity all the time.

Light should be understood as Primary Angular Momentum in APM Theory.
This means that even though APM says the Aether is a quantum 2 spin Rotating Magnetic Field,
This still prevents EM from effecting light. Mass always distorts the Aether.
Aether does have Torsion and Warp from E Fields and Matter.
In ECE the effect of E Fields is Torsion on Space, while G Field is Warping of Space.
Therefore again we find that all alternate ideas have several common themes.
The need to understand Torsion Fields, and knowledge that the Vortex Structures create Fields.
Fields are made of Non Material Aether and are countless Vortex Forms.

Light is not EM in either theory. Maybe some graphics will help.
This explains the Hutchison Effect. John Hutchison used Two Powerful Tesla Coils with a Van de Graaff Electrostatic Generator to achieve his effects. Both the EM and the ES Charge must be altered. All Charge is distributed. There is no such thing as a particle nor a wave duality. Distributed Charge accounts for both observations and also destroys the so called Quantum Limitation of knowing only speed or location of an e- but never both. That is a false hood based on the incorrect particle model. APM shows that e- and p+ are the fundamental dual charge subatomic units. A neutron is just a e- and a p+. APM shows them as two specific waving distributed charge structures of EM and ES. Meyls shows them as dual waving vortex units. Both models show a dual distributed waving charge object. Not a point or a wave. Either way it is a dipole in Meyls Scalar Theory and it is a EM Toroid around a ES Sphere in APM (Aether Physics Model). All three say light is not EM. Something else about light is that it is two things as well, not one. That may help matters. The point being the three force model is simple and accurate.

We need four DNA Base pairs for all life. We need only Three Fields to run the electric universe. We need only Two Sub Atomic Units to create matter. This leaves us with One Gforce. The Razors Edge. APM
Light or the photon is not Electro Magnetic as we are familiar with it. It is a Tempic vibration or loop which has no electric or magnetic field until it hits an atom able to absorb it into its electron shell adding back the EM components of its wave. Light is not bent by a magnetic field or an electric field because it does not have one in itself to be interactive with, it is only bent in a gravity field where we see stars bending the light from objects passing behind them. It is the smallest pure tempic field vibration we normally encounter. Much like the torsion waves we see Protons emitting in the scalar coils, they can not be measured or detected using EM sensitive equipment, until they hit a system designed to move the energy back into the normal EM fields. Light does not loose energy as it propagates, the value of Planks constant shows us that it is a quantum energy packet that does not experience any loss as it travels. Torsion waves also exhibit this quality.

Light can be polarized, it only fits one direction through a narrow slit smaller then its wavelength. It is a flat loop traveling along its edge. This is the same model for tempic waves or torsion fields. The longitudinal wave is moving through the tempic field not the EM fields, an important distinction.

Image

Light becomes an interference pattern only after it interacts, study the two slit experiment to see how this operates. Light is operating inside the one dimensional force at its most basic level of primary spin. It is an alteration of its velocity back and forth as it moves through space. Wilbert Smith got the answer to, what is light?, "It simply is". It is the first possible vibration operating on the prime force of nature the tempic field. Thus the torsion field is also this type of manifestation, completely void of EM. This is why scalar waves may pass right through solid objects such a Faraday cages, if these waves are not responsive to the wavelengths of the matter.

Image

The tempic field receiver. Two coils placed in quadrature will rebuild the electric component of a torsion wave. Only after the Electric field is reestablished will a magnetic field form, from its movement, and we discover all sit at 90 degrees to one another.

Image

The donut now forms around the electric field in motion. Here we end up with the familiar Electric Magnetic and Motion vectors appearing in Electronics, only we have created them from the prime force outwards and included their correct spin angles to explain light polarization and torsion fields. This model shows us what we have come to call Tempic field, Torsion field, Motion in electric motors, and Light photons are all manifestations of the same basic force, the prime field of nature. Although they all may interact with EM under correct conditions they are not of themselves EM.

It should become apparent due to the nature of matter, that if we could succeed at pushing matter up to its local light speed, it would now be moving along its torsion vector equally as fast as it is moving in its circle pattern, and the circles would never complete as spin. It would become spread out into a stream of energy with nothing that is recognizable to anyone observing it. The solution is to increase its' light speed constant so it can now make more rotations, moving it through density, this requires a tempic field manipulation.


Gravity
Gravity was explained by Wilbert Smith as well, but not comprehensible until one grasps the tempic field. Gravity and the Electric field are composed of the same two vector forces, tempic and electric fields setting at 90 degrees to one another, and thus both offer a distance squared force. Electric force projects along its electric vector which has a gradient or a modulation and carries a constant tempic field along with it that is relatively unchanging at 90 degrees. Gravity has a relatively constant electric field but its tempic field contains a gradient or modulation, and thus it is able to effect light which travels the tempic field. The Electric field gradient is not known to alter the path of light and therein lies the difference.

Collapsing the Torsion field:
When we observe the work of John Hutchison, levitating a cannon ball using 5 EM instruments, we realize that the forces of the tempic field can be altered. What is happening may not be clear to most and seems like magic to be feared, but the explanation is really very straight forwards from the field forces models already commonly in place if one can make the leap to the one dimensional field force, or Torsion to realize its true nature.
http://magnetism.otc.co.nz/FieldForces.htm
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Influx
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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by Influx » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:05 am

Nice theory. But does it agree with what we observe in the universe? Gravitational lensing is not a proven fact!

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... misuse.htm

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... avlens.htm

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... gleweb.htm

I thought light could be polarized because of its direction of vibration, not because it was a flat rotating loop.
Polarized light waves are light waves in which the vibrations occur in a single plane
http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSCI/P ... 12l1e.html

Junglelord said.
I believe the Aether is a Rotating Magnetic Field.I believe that the Magnetic Flux comes from the Aether.I believe all Magnetic Fields are made of Dual Vortex Structures in the Aether.


Rotating Magnetic Field is the ether? Made from Dual Vortex Structures? Magnets within magnets? I do not follow you, the Dual Vortex Structures make magnetic fields, the magnetic field rotates making the ether? Then the ether, that is, the Rotating Magnetic Field makes the Magnetic Flux "Magnetic Flux comes from the Aether"? Something from nothing it would seem to me! It seems you are saying that the ether is some sort of a magnetic field that makes it self. :?
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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by kevin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:04 am

I consider that the title of this thread is the consequencial result of a geometric continuum of transfer , and that transfer is between dimensions that the geometry creates.
We are, we exist as part of 3D, where that geometry meets and allows what is 3D, and because this is all we have been allowed to know and comprehend, we have assigned all laws as been relative to 3D.
nobody is at fault, except if there are those that know this, and their adjenda to veil this must be tremendous.

Because we have known nothing but 3D, naturally we have sought to explain the title thread reactions as been a consequence of mass, but what we need to do is work out what creates mass, how it coalesces out of the transfer between dimensions.
There will not have been a big bang, that was only required to explain where mass had started from, when in reality it appears as if by magic.
As we haven't any comprehension of the higher dimensions , and what may be going on there , we can only try and speculate.

When I said we are, we exist, I mean't the 3D biological body of ourselves, but I detect something else about all living things, that appears to penetrate through all 3D mass, could it be possible that we are, we exist in differing dimensions that occupy the same location in space at the same time?
I realise this sounds all new age spooky stuff, but it's not my doing, I am merely trying to convey and inform as I find, and it is a strange place I find.

Kevin

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by Total Science » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:00 am

"What we call mass would seem to be nothing but an appearance, and all inertia to be of electromagnetic origin." -- Henri Poincaré, physicist, 1908

"An atom differs from the solar system by the fact that it is not gravitation that makes the electrons go round the nucleus, but electricity." -- Bertrand Russell, physicist/philosopher, 1924

"Gravitation is an electromagnetic phenomenon." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, cosmologist, 1946

"All planets revolve in approximately one plane. They revolve in a plane perpendicular to the lines of force of the sun’s magnetic field." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, cosmologist, 1946

"...in 1913—G. E. Hale published his paper on “The general magnetic field of the sun” (Contr. M. Wilson Obs., #71), in which he estimated the general magnetic field of the sun as of 50 Gauss intensity. At this intensity “under certain conditions electromagnetic forces are much stronger than gravitation.” (Alfven) The last named author in his “cosmical Electro-dynamics” (Oxford, 1950, p. 2) shows that a hydrogen atom at the distance of the earth from the sun and moving with the earth’s orbital velocity, if ionized, is acted upon by the solar magnetic field ten thousand times stronger than by the solar gravitational field." -- Immanuel Velikovsky, cosmologist, 1952

"The picture of an atom began to look more like a miniature solar system with an atomic nucleus for the sun, and electrons for planets. The analogy with the planetary system can be further strengthened by these facts: the atomic nucleus contains 99.97 per cent of the total atomic mass as compared with 99.87 per cent of the solar system concentrated in the sun, and the distances between the planetary electrons exceed their diameters by about the same factor (several thousand times) which we find when comparing interplanetary distances with the diameters of the planets. The more important analogy lies, however, in the fact that the electric attraction-forces between the atomic nucleus and the electrons obey the same mathematical law of inverse square (that is, the forces are inversely proportionate to the square of the distance between two bodies) as the gravity forces acting between the sun and the planets. This makes the electrons describe the circular and elliptic trajectories around the nucleus, similar to those along which the planets and comets move in the solar system." -- George Gamow, physicist, 1961
"The ancients possessed a plasma cosmology and physics themselves, and from laboratory experiments, were well familiar with the patterns exhibited by Peratt's petroglyphs." -- Joseph P. Farrell, author, 2007

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by Riposte » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:36 am

kevin wrote: When I said we are, we exist, I mean't the 3D biological body of ourselves, but I detect something else about all living things, that appears to penetrate through all 3D mass, could it be possible that we are, we exist in differing dimensions that occupy the same location in space at the same time?
I realise this sounds all new age spooky stuff, but it's not my doing, I am merely trying to convey and inform as I find, and it is a strange place I find.

Kevin
Hi Kevin. What you are describing seems to fit perfectly with the words of all of the spiritually enlightened sages and gurus throughout history and of today (Buddha, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Papaji, Nisargadatta Maharaj, Eckhart Tolle, etc.). In essence, it is the absolute consciousness that permeates all things, or God, or the nondual infinite, absolute consciousness that "is" and the only thing that "is."

This universe is just an expression of that consciousness of which we are all a part. In fact, we are all the same, we are all that same consciousness. Who you think you are is not who you truly are. You may have had a temporary glimpse of this nonduality "nothingness" that we all are. The trick to enlightenment, or self realization, is to make that glimpse permanent, which is the tough part.

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by Influx » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:25 am

kevin wrote:When I said we are, we exist, I mean't the 3D biological body of ourselves, but I detect something else about all living things, that appears to penetrate through all 3D mass, could it be possible that we are, we exist in differing dimensions that occupy the same location in space at the same time?
I realise this sounds all new age spooky stuff, but it's not my doing, I am merely trying to convey and inform as I find, and it is a strange place I find.
Spiritual and metaphysical belief aside, We find absolutely no evidence for higher, or lower, dimensions in the universe! Science is the study of nature, and up to now observable physical evidence of natural phenomena have not demonstrated any higher dimensions! Mathematical fantasies do not count!
Total Science wrote:"What we call mass would seem to be nothing but an appearance, and all inertia to be of electromagnetic origin." -- Henri Poincaré, physicist, 1908
Yes I agree that mass might be an electromagnetic in nature, just like the universe is electric. But we are still missing something, otherwise we would have some pretty amazing technologies. After all we have a good idea how to manipulate the electromagnetic fields. Yes I know that the web is choke full of alternative technologies, histories and ideas, new age stuff and because of this people tend to think they have the answers. But, with all that, simple looking around is more than ample proof for me that we are primitive and have a limited understanding of the universe.
Riposte wrote: This universe is just an expression of that consciousness of which we are all a part. In fact, we are all the same, we are all that same consciousness. Who you think you are is not who you truly are. You may have had a temporarily glimpse of this nonduality "nothingness" that we all are. The trick to enlightenment, or self realization, is to make that glimpse permanent, which is the tough part.


I am not really who I am? Really? I am nothingness? These are just speculative ideas that have nothing do to with the rigors of science! Same consciousness? My thoughts are my own, my actions my own too. My life, my hopes, my pains, my problems are all mine. There is nothing observable in this world to make me believe that we can be enlightened or undergo some other new age transformation. You can site any religious belief, western, eastern, new age, ancient or new but at the end of the day, technology, science and rational thought have won the day. The human race have existed on this planet for thousands of years under control or ideas of the so called "holistic esoteric sages and wizards" but only under science in the last couple of centuries have we achieved a bearable existence. :D ;)
Today is the yesterday of tomorrow.

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by kevin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:48 am

Influx,
I am by instinct a hunter, if something is not yet found, it does not mean it does not exist.
the hunter will find the method to catch it's prey, though I have to admit the two dragons I keep grabbing hold off smile at me as they speed off.
Kevin

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by Influx » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:01 pm

kevin wrote: I am by instinct a hunter, if something is not yet found, it does not mean it does not exist.
:D Hunters hunt because at least they KNOW that the prey is out there. Seeing and knowing are different. I can see the light made in the light bulb, I KNOW there is electricity in the wires. I cant see the gravity at work, but I know that it is there because I can see IT'S effect. I can see the stars in space and I have a good reason to think that they are real. Other dimensions? I can not see them nor know that they exist. Because I have not seen any phenomenon that could be linked to these dimensions!
Today is the yesterday of tomorrow.

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by altonhare » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:34 pm

Influx wrote:Unfortunately the scientists have no idea what is space and what are it’s properties. Then how can they say that gravity is the effect of mass on the structure of space if they do not know what space is?
Actually it is the ridiculous wild goose chase for "properties of space" itself that is the problem. Relativists reify and sometimes deify the concept "space". Space is not an object! Length, mass, velocity, etc. are all inherent to objects. If you are not studying objects (things), then you are studying nothing. This is precisely the position relativists find themselves in.
Influx wrote:For a simple reason that all of the three effects cause action at a distance as if by magic.
Physicists can't explain "action at a distance" because they never developed a hypothesis past the particle. Abandoning the particle leads to a simple, rational explanation for "action at a distance":

Light:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-NB5vg7woM

The H Atom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmE11_E-rdE

Magnetism:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evfUTmx0uh8

Gravitation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvWeYJg9Oxs
Influx wrote: For all the math and theories trying to explain these effects we are still no closer to understanding the effects then when they were first discovered! We know that electrons have charge, when this charge flows it produces a force that we call the magnetic field. But what that field is made out of, we have not the slightest clue.
Right. Bill Gaede answers "what is it made of".
Influx wrote:If I throw a rock into the lake, the waves generated do not have substance but still can effect anything on the surface of the lake.
The reason a wave does not "have substance" is because "wave" refers to what something does, not what something is. Wave is a concept, not an object. Concepts do not have substance (by which I mean shape), only objects do. In the case of the lake, the molecules of water are affecting what's on the surface. They are moving in a certain way that you refer to as "waving". But it is the objects themselves which influence other objects. The word "wave" is just a convenient shorthand for describing the way the objects move. Trying to talk about the wave "affecting" something is reification of the concept "wave".
Physicist: This is a pen

Mathematician: It's pi*r2*h

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by Riposte » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:11 pm

MODERATOR EDIT: For the sake of accuracy please be careful with the quotation attributes. Users should carefully review their posts to ensure they have not misspoken and that quotes are correctly attributed. Many of these forum discussions are complicated and convoluted enough. :?

Influx wrote:MOD EDIT: [kevin wrote:]
I am not really who I am? Really? I am nothingness? These are just speculative ideas that have nothing do to with the rigors of science! Same consciousness? My thoughts are my own, my actions my own too. My life, my hopes, my pains, my problems are all mine. There is nothing observable in this world to make me believe that we can be enlightened or undergo some other new age transformation. You can site any religious belief, western, eastern, new age, ancient or new but at the end of the day, technology, science and rational thought have won the day. The human race have existed on this planet for thousands of years under control or ideas of the so called "holistic esoteric sages and wizards" but only under science in the last couple of centuries have we achieved a bearable existence. :D ;)
Me, me, me. I, I, I. This is because we are all stuck in duality.

This is horribly off-topic, so we probably shouldn't even be discussing this. But is a "bearable existence" the only metric upon which you assign credibility?

What if you were nobody? No me, no you. No desires, no attachments. No separation, no unity. Just eternal "beingness." If that state were indeed possible, as so many people claim, what adjective would you attach to one's "existence" then?

It's just a thought experiment. Rhetorical questions only. Not meant as an attack on you or on science or technology. And anyway, the sages say you can not "think" your way into enlightenment. You can't intellectually reach it, because it is not an intellectual process.

That is just what they say. And yes, it is strange indeed! :D

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by kevin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:24 pm

Influx wrote:
kevin wrote: I am by instinct a hunter, if something is not yet found, it does not mean it does not exist.
:D Hunters hunt because at least they KNOW that the prey is out there. Seeing and knowing are different. I can see the light made in the light bulb, I KNOW there is electricity in the wires. I cant see the gravity at work, but I know that it is there because I can see IT'S effect. I can see the stars in space and I have a good reason to think that they are real. Other dimensions? I can not see them nor know that they exist. Because I have not seen any phenomenon that could be linked to these dimensions!
Influx,
You see the consequences of the resistance through the wire in the light bulb, but do you see light?
You sense the consequences of something that has been termed gravity, you cannot see gravity.
Every measuring device or optical device is made in and from the consequences of whatever creates mass, 3D, therefore they will only ever record or recognise the same, as our dominant senses of our biological bodies do.
But I detect something else realtive to each living thing, with humans it is a dual vortex FIELD( I do not know how to quantify that and use the word for want of anything better)
I consisider that I am operating with my field when detecting others fields, not merely relying on my 3D dominant senses.
That seperate FIELD about myself I have heard litterally, and it is not my normal sort of voice, it appears to KNOW universe.
I do not consider I need tablets or anything.
kevin

kevin
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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by kevin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:48 pm

Influx & others,
I would ask a favour, would you please listen to someone who I consider quite fabulous.
his name was father Charlie Moore.
in particuler a section of this link,
there are audio clips, if you go to 9th july 2004 , ladder of light.
then fast forward to 24 mins, he says something that I am struggling to say, I haven't the wisdom or language this man had.
http://www.beyondtheordinary.net/fathercharlie.shtml
All his words are stunning, but that bit is relevant to this thread, imo.
Kevin

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by seasmith » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:21 pm

Kevin,

To preserve the coherence of this thread, you may want to post the answere in the lower drawer of the forum; but my question,
re your words above:
,
...those that know this, and their adjenda to veil this must be tremendous.
Might you identify those that compose the "their" ??

Cheeers,
s
~

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Re: What is gravity, the electric and magnetic fields?

Post by Grey Cloud » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:47 pm

Seasmith wrote:
lower drawer of the forum
- it's been called worse. :shock:
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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