Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Webolife,
Speaking for myself, I'll stick with the ancient writer who said that 'faith comes from knowledge' (can't remember who actually said it). You wrote that 'everyone holds to some paradigm,..' and this is true for me also. However, I did not pick my (current) paradigm from a list with a pin. I only got into this Ancient Wisdom or Perennial Philosophy thing about 3 or 4 years ago as a sort of side-effect of reading philosophy (which I began about 5 or 6 years ago).

At the time I didn't really have a paradigm, having long since given up on anything said by 'experts'. In those 3 or 4 years my breadth and depth of understanding of a whole host of topics has increased greatly; far more so than in the previous 3 or 4 decades of reading mainstream academic works. Thus far the AW/PP has proved robust and coherent and has not yet been disproven in any of its elements by mainstream science or humanities (that I'm aware of). Part of its robustness and coherence is evidenced by it being global and extending
back from today to pre-history.

Stefan's excellent phrase, 'able-to-know'(wish I'd thought of that one), I would relate to the 'faith comes from knowledge' I used above. With the AW/PP one has to work for one's supper, it is not just a case of reading and memorising. Thinking for oneself is the key activity and central precept here and the mind [sic] is like any other part of a human: the more one uses it, the better it gets at doing its job. The issue of faith and knowledge was one of the sticks that the Neo-Platonists used to beat the Christians (probably one of the Neo-Platonists who said faith comes from knowledge).

Although Stefan and subsequently yourself have used the sociological example of literacy, the phrase is also pertinent in the psychological sense. That is, if one does not ask oneself the relevant questions, one is unlikely to find the answers. Your comments about the EU paradigm and those who discount everything to do with the old paradigm is also a good example of the psychological 'able-to'know'. Those you allude to have read the EU literature and memorised it (or swallowed it hook, line and sinker ). They hadn't thought through the old paradigm and are unlikely to think through the new. There is a good example of this going on right now in one of the sciencey threads - top comedy.

On a more general note I would say that science as a stand-alone discipline is a modern contrivence, originally it was a part of Philosophy. The likes of, e.g., Plato and Bacon had no problem investigating physical and metaphysical questions. It is not either / or with them; in fact it was quite the opposite.

P.S. I wouldn't be too quick to discount the crystal spheres model either.
P.P.S We on this thread have been looking for someone with knowledge of Earth Sciences to help with the physical evidence of catastrophe, hint, hint.

[webolife]

Both Aristotle and Galileo intuited that natural motion is curved... Kepler was first to say the curve was elliptical rather than circular, then Newton idealized inertia as rectilinear, unless acted upon by an outside force. I "grew up" with Newton's inertia, and only "abandoned" it a decade or so ago when I realized that all motion is predicated upon an outside force. Since then my inertia has reverted to a more galilean view. Regarding the wisdom of the ancients, I was amazed at the ideas of von Daniken's chariots of the gods for a number of years, until I realized that you don't need to invoke ETs to understand how profoundly intuitive and practical were our ancestors. Many "modern" scientists have this lesson yet to learn.

[Grey Cloud]

I read Von Daniken in my teens. He lasted until I looked at the description of Ezekiel's 'chariot' in the bible. I wouldn't ride it to the bottom of my street, never mind across space.

[webolife]

Grey Cloud said: P.P.S We on this thread have been looking for someone with knowledge of Earth Sciences to help with the physical evidence of catastrophe, hint, hint.
You talkin' to me?! There are others more qualified than I, but I suppose I have some knowledge built on my entrenchment in traditional geology and overturned by my "conversion" to a catastrophic view. I was recently sorting through some old papers and photos, and found an original paper I wrote for a post BA college class in 1981 on the catastrophic geology history of Washington State. I teach a 20-hour class on catastrophic earth science, which though it would be difficult to quickly summarize, I would be happy to share my views on specific questions. There are many detractors out there, of course, but most are sold out to the [relatively easily debunked] radiometric dating paradigm, and just cannot see beyond it to some amazing catastrophic realities.

[Solar]

Grey Cloud said: P.P.S We on this thread have been looking for someone with knowledge of Earth Sciences to help with the physical evidence of catastrophe, hint, hint.
You talkin' to me?!

LOL I love this thread.

A few comments on the Perennial Philosophy:

Interesting links you provided Grey Cloud. Many good considerations in several of them and yes, much scholarly speculation as well. In one of the links I wouldn't refer to something having the same origin as being the result of "parallelism". That infers; that more than one thing develops via coincidence simultaneously without having association. The Mysteries are understood as having a central cause/origin which is why the perception of of those central themes might appear as “parallelism”.

As you've mentioned there is certainly a lot of intellectual wrangling going on with regard to "local" origins. Which came first, variants of this that or the other term etc. Its a rather poignant demonstration of just why several of the 'other', more esoteric oriented, authors referenced in this thread are more apt when it comes to this.

Three of the links you provided are very impressive but two of them stand out via the mutual connection with regard to those Mystery Schools that they show when combined.

In the first, "Mithras: literary references", the introduction contains two links that lead to "OSTIA MITHRAEA" and a sub page "The Mithraeum of the Seven Spheres(II,VIII,6)". These give photos and the layout of some of the "temples" wherein the "rites", of which we know little to nothing after multiples of millnea and a host of such Schools, were held.

Also, the implications from [url=http://www.art-and%20archaeology.com/timelines/rome/empire/vm/villaofthemysteries.html]Villa of the Mysteries, Pompeii[/url] are wonderful with it's "one very unusual feature" the "chamber" entrance and frescoes ("glyphs"). But the power is in the ineffable implications not necessarily the comments & critiques. Especially when combined with "The Mithras" Liturgy". Together, they convey a certain 'sense' of 'ambiance', 'movement' and 'activity' for which scholars are at great pains to assess the why and wherefore of. Very inspirational and intriguing relationship there.

It is quite the wonder, how it could be, that these Mysteries have apparently had such a dramatic and powerful influence the world over when considering that several renown historical people were involved with them. People for whom even the "science" of today owe a great debt.

Thus far the AW/PP has proved robust and coherent and has not yet been disproven in any of its elements by mainstream science or humanities (that I'm aware of). Part of its robustness and coherence is evidenced by it being global and extending back from today to pre-history.

That is very accurate. Unless one undertakes research and study the profundity of coherence within The Ancient wisdom goes unrecognized.

Few of the early cults actually worshiped anthropomorphic deities, although their symbolism might lead one to believe they did. They were moralistic rather than religionistic; philosophic rather than theologic.- Manly P. Hall “The Ancient Mysteries and Secret Societies”

It is imperative that we re-evaluate or dispense with the modern day paradigm that devalues, degrades, or renders irrelevant things of this matter. It is not difficult at all to see scholars struggling and its because these aspects aren't given due consideration “... a challenge to scholarly ingenuity.” - as David Ulansey put it. We exist in a paradigm right now as a result of having lost an understanding of things former. From the “Introduction” of “Temple In Man” by R.A. Schawaller de Lubicz:

In his approach to Egypt, Schwaller de Lubicz stresses the view that I order to comprehend the significance of a heightened phase among mans' varied historical expressions, we need to impose on ourselves the discipline of attempting to enter into the mentality of the people and the spirit of the time. To do so would mean more than just leaning the language and symbols of the period under study; we must also awaken in ourselves a living inner rapport with the material being researched and identify with it in a potential self-transforming manner. Of course, this ideal can never be fully attained, as our present consciousness inevitably with us, but, on the other hand, by continuing to sift all of history through our present rationalized, individualize psychological mentality, we distort beyond recognition the content and meaning of the past. This distortion often occurs when we try to interpret the great mythological cultures of Egypt or Vedic India in particular, we tend to lose sight of the fact that these cultures were expressing a different mentality, and values, from our and that they had a completely different understanding to the goal and purpose of life. As a result, in all of their science, art, and knowledge these cultures used distinct modes and methods of symbolization.

... we must understand this difference if we are to study them properly – seems obvious, but an example will show how difficult it is to put this idea into practice. Schwaller de Lubicz explains in Le Temple de l'Homme (Caracteres, 1957) that in the ancient temple civilization of Egypt, numbers, our most ancient form of symbol, did not simply designate quantities but instead were considered to be concrete definitions of energetic formative principles of nature. The Egyptians called these energetic principles Neters, a word which is conventionally rendered as “gods”

To me, this clearly shows the paradigm WE live in; as opposed to the “energetic formative principles of nature” with which the ancients synthesized a relationship and understanding.. And/Or as Seasmith put it here:

“Also that number and forms (geometry) are mental figurations, or Symbols [an arrested state] of a “Function”.

What is “number” today? Simply a representation of “quantity”. A dead thing. It neither lives nor breathes as 'energetic formative principles of nature'. And look at how the translation is “conventionally rendered” as “gods”??. Look at the paradigm and accompanying extrapolations that immediately encases the thought process when the history is examined via such strict rational intellectualization of the history of an ancient culture with mis-translations like that.

Take your pick of any ancient culture and the result is usually the same. This points to how it is that some very intelligent scholars, yes they actually are, struggle; while offering much in the way of what turns out to be speculative word salad.

We seriously miss out on much without the inclusion of this quality of knowledge and understanding.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Solar,
Some thoughts on the Ostia Mithraea. It seems to me that most, if not all, of these are nothing more than the Roman equivalent of private chapels such as are found in stately homes, manor houses and chateaux etc across Europe. They may well be places of worship and perhaps even instruction but they do not seem to be places of initiation as there does not appear to be any 'holy of holies' or inner sanctum.
Again, some of the scholarly interpretation seems to me to be simplistic and even desperate (as in clutching at straws). For instance, in the Mithraeum of the Seven Spheres, who decided that the weapon was a dagger? It looks like a regular Roman gladius to me. Also how do they make out the left hand side of the temple to be 'day' when the moon is on that side?
As for the Mithras liturgy - I'm not convinced. One can see what is being attempted, i.e. an altered state of consciousness via the breathing, chanting, etc but it reminds me of the spurious alchemical texts that plagued the Renaissance for example.

Your point about the calibre of the people who passed through the Mysteries is, I feel, an important one. Surely the calibre of those initiated: Pythagoras, Plato, Plutarch plus law makers, playwrights, poets etc. suggests that there was something going on here that was
more than a charasmatic leader bamboozling a gullible audience as in a cult? In one of the articles on Eleusis I linked to, one of the 'theories' suggested that there was some sort of play enacted which gave the audience a sense of partaking in the drama. Given that several
of the leading Athenian tragedians were intitiated it would surely take something beyond the limited space and capabilities of the temple and its staff to fool these people?

The quotes you provided from Hall and the intro to Schwaller's book illustrate another part of the problem. Because the myths etc use a vocabulary which includes words such as gods, daimons, deity, divinity etc then modern scholars are, so to speak, professionally obliged to
belittle and denegrate such texts. On the bright side, I recently read an article by an Indian sanskrit scholar who had examined the earliest Brahmanas realting to the Rig Veda, and his conclusion was that there was no notion of gods in them and that the authors were aware that the Rig was about cosmic forces etc. Personally I find it easier and more intuitive to to understand an anthropomorphised Universe than one described in terms such as forces, energies, constants etc. I would sooner look at an image of a nymph than Planck's constant any day.

You wrote:

Take your pick of any ancient culture and the result is usually the same.

Do you mean like this?

Navajo Astronomy
An Understanding of the Cosmos From Time of Creation to the High School Classroom
Sean Callan
Unlike accepted contemporary theory that claims the Big Bang marks the creation of the universe, with chaotic combustion of gases and fragments of planets that created our universe, the Navajo believe in a very orderly beginning. Using the philosophy of harmonious balance, the Navajo attribute male and female characteristics to all forces in the natural world. Another facet that is clearly present is that of a council and community.
...
According to the Navajo, the Creator, or Supreme Being, created First Man and First Woman, Coyote and all other beings. These First beings were in the form of supernatural. Similar to other creation stories, the first beings had great powers. These powers were used to assist in
forming the universe in accordance to the design of the Creator.
All of the elements of the universe were created and put to use in an effort to effect balance. Fire, Water, Air and Earth are sacred elements.
They each contain male and female qualities. Two different ways are used in effecting balance to describe the creation of everything that is.
The first is referred to as the Blessing Way, this is the female role. It was used to orient the earth and sky. Its qualities include everything that is beautiful, wonderful, happy, and harmonious. Corn, or corn pollen usually is used to symbolize this quality. The second is the Protection Shield way. It is the male counterpart and is the bearer of weapons and protector of life against danger and evil. Today it can be symbolized with arrowheads.
The wholesome and holistic nature of the universe was created in this duality of being. It represents the continuation of life’s cycle. The supernatural beings, or the creator’s helpers, are known to the Navajo as Holy people, or Deities.
...
For instance, the earth, who is regarded as Mother, and the Sky, who is regarded as Father, were, after great discussion and dialogue by the Holy people, determined to be clad in appropriate symbolism.

As far as I can see, there is absolutely nothing in that passage that in any way, shape or form disagrees with anything Greek.

On the website below, where the Goodart article came from, there are links to 5 'digests' (Atlantis, Egypt, Essenes, Orphic Mysteries and Delphi). The Orphic Mysteries issue I thoroughly enjoyed. It includes an excellent essay by GRS Mead written over 100 years ago.
http://www.rosicrucian.org/publications ... tents.html

[Solar]

Hi Solar,
Some thoughts on the Ostia Mithraea. It seems to me that most, if not all, of these are nothing more than the Roman equivalent of private chapels such as are found in stately homes, manor houses and chateaux etc across Europe. They may well be places of worship and perhaps even instruction but they do not seem to be places of initiation as there does not appear to be any 'holy of holies' or inner sanctum.

Methinks "appear to be" may be the operative phrase. You could be correct of course as the Mythraea did not seem to bear the same 'mystique" as the chamber of Pompeii. The distribution map would seem to imply a sort of 'wide spread popularity' for lack of a better expression. You cause me to wonder if such a widespread distribution served a general purpose such that perhaps only during the selection of a suitable "candidate" would the actual location for the "rites" have been revealed.

Also, in that regard, it appears that there were usually some form of an "Inner Circle" to these Mystery Schools such as with Pythagoras and the "Semicircle" (I think that was the name). Perhaps, as you suggest, these did have a seperate 'meeting place' and locale for furtherance.(?)

Again, some of the scholarly interpretation seems to me to be simplistic and even desperate (as in clutching at straws). For instance, in the Mithraeum of the Seven Spheres, who decided that the weapon was a dagger? It looks like a regular Roman gladius to me. Also how do they make out the left hand side of the temple to be 'day' when the moon is on that side?

Perhaps it is some reference to there being some significance to those days when the Moon and Sun share the same daytime sky?

Your point about the calibre of the people who passed through the Mysteries is, I feel, an important one. Surely the calibre of those initiated: Pythagoras, Plato, Plutarch plus law makers, playwrights, poets etc. suggests that there was something going on here that was
more than a charasmatic leader bamboozling a gullible audience as in a cult? In one of the articles on Eleusis I linked to, one of the 'theories' suggested that there was some sort of play enacted which gave the audience a sense of partaking in the drama. Given that several
of the leading Athenian tragedians were intitiated it would surely take something beyond the limited space and capabilities of the temple and its staff to fool these people?

Agreed. The legendary names that have been associated with these are another of it's very curious features. Your last sentence there is a very good point.

I recently read an article by an Indian sanskrit scholar who had examined the earliest Brahmanas realting to the Rig Veda, and his conclusion was that there was no notion of gods in them and that the authors were aware that the Rig was about cosmic forces etc. Personally I find it easier and more intuitive to to understand an anthropomorphised Universe than one described in terms such as forces, energies, constants etc. I would sooner look at an image of a nymph than Planck's constant any day.

That's interesting. To the greater degree I'm just the opposite. It's more intuitve for me to 'sense' potencies and aspects of 'potencies' - and the 'objective personfication' of them. I think the reference to the manner in which the Indian scholar considers this relationship to be that of the Egyptians. That is the sense that I get from the work of Schawaller as well.

You wrote:

Take your pick of any ancient culture and the result is usually the same.

Do you mean like this?

Navajo Astronomy
An Understanding of the Cosmos From Time of Creation to the High School Classroom
Sean Callan
Unlike accepted contemporary theory that claims the Big Bang marks the creation of the universe, with chaotic combustion of gases and fragments of planets that created our universe, the Navajo believe in a very orderly beginning. Using the philosophy of harmonious balance, the Navajo attribute male and female characteristics to all forces in the natural world. Another facet that is clearly present is that of a council and community.
...

As far as I can see, there is absolutely nothing in that passage that in any way, shape or form disagrees with anything Greek.

Correct. I guess I just don't understand how it is that such a long history of coherency across so many boarders isn't given more serious consideration by some.

[mague]

Personally I find it easier and more intuitive to to understand an anthropomorphised Universe than one described in terms such as forces, energies, constants etc. I would sooner look at an image of a nymph than Planck's constant any day.

Hello Grey Cloud,

which might be the problem. Once you stop to divide into interllectual/scientific and anthropomorphised universe both is possible at the same time.

When i walk with people at a flat beach there are sometimes small waves that make a "srrrrppp" sound when rolling onto the beach. I tell the people: "Look a mermaid". Huh ? Where ?

They see the physical force on top the waves as a tiny line of foam riding the wave and hear the sound of it. But they are not able to bridge the gap of consciousness dividing reality and fantasy. This bridge is topic in many legends and the irish peolple swear that there is a treasure buried on the other side of the rainbow bridge

More then often initiations are nothing else but the atuning of someone. We all have "difuse emotions" or "unidentified thingies" in our consciousness, usually we dont sense them when aging, because we sense it as "white noise" and get used to it. All the atuning initiations are about, is to help someone to find the picture for such a difuse, unidentified spot in his consciousness. The so called Eureka! event (See Archimedes haha)

So there is no reason why Zeus cant be a huge guy with beard and a cosmic force at the same time. We share space with him in at least two alternative realities. And two points allow us addition and subsstraction or simple abstractions/alternative essences...

[StefanR]

To me, this clearly shows the paradigm WE live in; as opposed to the “energetic formative principles of nature” with which the ancients synthesized a relationship and understanding.. And/Or as Seasmith put it here:

“Also that number and forms (geometry) are mental figurations, or Symbols [an arrested state] of a “Function”.

What is “number” today? Simply a representation of “quantity”. A dead thing. It neither lives nor breathes as 'energetic formative principles of nature'. And look at how the translation is “conventionally rendered” as “gods”??. Look at the paradigm and accompanying extrapolations that immediately encases the thought process when the history is examined via such strict rational intellectualization of the history of an ancient culture with mis-translations like that.

Allthough, this is not the place to get to deep into numbers (and I don't know much about it), but now that you mentioned it, you gave me the impetus to give a quote which puts it in the same category as mentioned in the pages before.

Geometry is the study of spatial order through the measure and relationships of forms. Geometry and arithmetic, together with astronomy, the science of temporal order through the observation of cylcic movement, constituted the major intellectual disciplines of classical education. The fourth element of this great fourfold syllabus, the Quadrivium, was the study of harmony and music. The laws of simple harmonics were considered to be universals which defined the relationship and interchange between the temporal movements and events of the heavens and the spatial order and development on earth.
The implicit goal of this education was to enable the mind to become a channel through which the 'earth' (the level of manifested form) could recieve the abstract, cosmic life of the heavens. The practice of geometry was an approach to the way in which the universe is ordered and sustained. Geometric diagrams can be contemplated as still moments revealing a continuous, timeless, universal action generally hidden from our sensory perception. Thus a seemingly common mathematical activity can become a discipline for intellectual and spiritual insight.
Plato considered geometry and number as the most reduced and essential, and therefore the ideal, philosophical language. but it is only by virtue of functioning at a certain 'level' of reality that geometry and number can become a vehicle for philosophical contemplation. Greek philosophy defined this notion of 'levels', so useful in our thinking, distinguishing the 'typal' and the 'archetypal'. Following the indication given by the Egyptian wall reliefs, which are laid out in three registers, an upper, a middle and a lower, we can define a third level, the ectypal, situated between the archtypal and the typal.
[...]
Functioning then at the level of the archetypal level, Geometry and Number describe fundamental, causal energies in their interwoven, eternal dance. It is this way of seeing that stands behind the expression of cosmological systems as geometric configurations.
[...]
"All mathematical forms have a primary substance in the soul; so that prior to the sensible she contains self-motive numbers ; vital figures prior to such as are apparent ; harmonic ratios prior to things harmonized ; and invisible circles prior to the bodies that are moved in a circle."
- Thomas Taylor
[...]
Schwaller de Lubicz gives an analogy by which this universal and archetypal sense of Number can be understood. A revolving sphere presents us with the notion of an axis. We think of this axis as an ideal or imaginary line through the sphere. It has no objective existence, yet we cannot help but be convinced of its reality ; and to determine anything about the sphere, such as its inclination or its speed of rotation we must refer to this imaginary axis. Number in the enumerative sense corresponds to the measures and movements of the outer surface of the sphere, while the universal aspect of Number is analogous to the immobile, unmanifest, functional principle of its axis.
[...]
We've noted already that the ancients gave considerable attention to the study of musical harmony in relation with the study of mathematics and geometry. The origen of this tradition is generally associated with Pythagoras (560 - 490 BC) and his school, yet Pythagoras may be considered as a window through which we can glimpse the quality of the intellectual world of an older, eastern and mideastern tradition.
[...]
As geometers, equipped only with compasses and straight-edge, we enter the two-dimensional world of the representation of form. A link is forged between the most concrete (form and measure) and the most abstract realms of thought. By seeking the invariable relationships by which forms are governed and interconnected we bring ourselves into resonance with universal order. By re-enacting the genesis of these forms we seek to know the principles of evolution. And by thus raising our own patterns of thought to these archetypal levels, we invite the force of these levels to penetrate our mind and thinking. Our intuition is enlivened, and perhaps, as Plato says, the soul's eye might be purified and kindled afresh 'for it is by it alone that we contemplate the truth'.

It seems to be the basic assumption of traditional philosophies that human intellectual powers are for the purpose of accelerating our own evolution beyond the restraints of the biological determinism which binds all other living organisms. Methods such as yoga, meditation, concentration, the arts, the crafts, are psychophysical techniques to further this fundamental goal. The practise of sacred geometry is one of these essential techniques of self-development.
[...]
Ancient geometry rests on no a priori axioms or assumptions. Unlike Euclidian and the more recent geometries, the starting point of ancient geometric thought is not a network of intellectual definitions or abstractions, but instead a meditation upon a metaphysical Unity, followed by an attempt to symbolize visually and to contemplate the pure, formal order which springs forth from this incomprehensible Oneness. It is the approach to the starting point of geometric activity which radically separates what we may call the sacred from the mundane or secular geometries. Ancient geometry begins with One, while modern mathematics and geometry begin with Zero.

Sacred Geometry - Philosophy and practice - Robert Lawlor (Thames&Hudson)

By the way, this is a very nice book which gives a very good introduction and overall explanation of the technique of geometry.And when talking about numbers the prize is just single digit, so if ones got a dime to spare ... but I should not be plugging, it's just a hint.

So again it seems to be like levels of frequencies in degrees that are a recurrent functional applicability in transmission and reception of ideas about what is called Reality.
And maybe it is sometimes difficult to distinguish between the tool and the message taking the tool as more fundamental then the message is the act of losing Reality. Which is maybe also the case with myth and the ancient texts. Too much focus on the reflection on water makes one lose the view of the depth of it.
It's almost the same with alchemical texts, I can go look for gold, but how to catch a tiger?

Just when the white tiger on the west mountain goes wild, the blue dragon in the east sea cannot handle it. Catching them both, have them fight to the death, and they will turn into a mass of violet gold frost.
Sixty-four verses modeled on the number signs in the I Ching.
Understanding Reality - Chang Po-Tuan - trans. T. Cleary

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Mague,
I don't disagree with anything you've said there. I'ts just that to me things such as Planck's Constant and E=MC2 are static and lifeless and things such as nymphs and centaurs are dynamic and vibrant. Also it is easier for me to see the relationship between, say, a nymph and a randy god than between, say, mass and gravity.

P.S. I hope the mermaids are wrapping up well in this weather. 'Rasberries like ten bob's worth of tanners' comes to mind but will probably not mean much to anyone outside Britain

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Stefan,
You wrote:

And when talking about numbers the prize is just single digit, so if ones got a dime to spare ... but I should not be plugging, it's just a hint.

I think you'll find that the Americans tend to plug nickels not dimes.

[StefanR]

I'm sorry. I should have said a penny as it is in pounds. I'm afraid the green isn't coming back.

[seasmith]

StefanR wrote:

Ancient geometry begins with One, while modern mathematics and geometry begin with Zero.

Just to spiral on with the gist of Schwaller's thought, there paraphrased by Taylor:

"The Causal Unity is All, and the Universe that results from it can only be composed of fractions
of this Unity. The fractioning, the original division as the Mystery of Heliopolis tells us (transcribed by Theon of Smyrna), becomes the law,
the divine gesture in whose image we must proceed.

Thus, all pharaonic arithmology (maths and geometries) is founded on Unity and its fractions, then on the return to Unity.

... can only consist of proportional relationships.
... in other words, a living, moving approach was rejected by the systemizing logic of the Greeks. ""

(Emphasis his, parenthesis mine)
Temple of Man~ page 127

Note: That "proportional relationship" he elsewheres elaborates as harmonical/musical ratios and their corresponding volumes,
from which the numerical (planer/axial) fractals are derived.

ps,
Stef,
Is the euro going the way of the green?

[flyingcloud]

http://saturniancosmology.org/

a link I found quite interesting, referencing various cultural myths in relation to possible catastrophic events as witnessed worldwide

forgive me if it has already been posted

i'm still trying to absorb all the possibilities

one thing I found quite intriguing is the possibility of the merging of at least two different solar systems and the electrical discharges and interactions between the two systems. and the myths of the ages with respect to the planet gods

I think it does a good job identifying the similar inclinations in the planets within our current configuration.

I am currently looking for evidence surrounding Uranus, father of Saturn, Grandfather of Jupiter in prehistoric human memory as potentiall a third system that may have interacted with the saturnian system and that of sol. With respects to the return of planet x nibiru coming from outside the orbital plane of the current system. I would suggest that perhaps a part of the early Uranus system as a possibility. if perhaps uranus rotational axis was always as it is perceived today

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Flyingcloud,
Most here are familiar with the saturniancosmology.org website. I can't speak for the others but I don't rate it very highly.

Uranus wasn't a planet to the ancients it/he was the sky or heavens. I think you will search in vain for any mythological evidence of merging solar systems. I would be very interested to hear any evidence to the contrary that you may have but only if it is from an ancient source as opposed to the opinion of some guy with a website (unless of course, said guy actually provides some references).