Ancient textual evidence for planetary catastrophe?

[Krackonis]

Bonds of the Past, a CBC Documentary about Emmanuel Velikovsky has tons of textual evidence. Besides a couple of crazy proposals taken out of context by others the whole piece is very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KsKA8p6HDI

Another site is http://www.saturniancosmology.org which has some interesting references which the author uses to reconstruct events. Its a work in progress, but a good site to get references from.

I hope this gives you a starting point from where to work from.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Krakonis,
You wrote:

I hope this gives you a starting point from where to work from.

We are on page 22 of the thread so I think it's safe to assume that we've already got started.
I've watched the V documentary and seen the Cook site and suffice to say that I'm not a big fan of either.

[StefanR]

Isn't shamanism part of animism?

As far as I'm aware, 'shaman' is originally from Siberia but nowadays is a sort of generic term for what used to be called medicine-men and witch doctors etc. It is, or can be, related to animism but there again, animism is a western term coined by those who have no idea, ie. experts.

Shamans and animism are similar frameworks indeed. They relate like priest and religion, doctor and medizine. The idea is that everything is "alive" and has its own idendity. Rocks, rivers, water sources, trees, bees, air, clouds, everything. Everything is "animated". Its problem is that it crashes massively with "materialism". .....
Shamans do originate form everywhere. The word shaman originates from siberia, scandinavia though. However, since globalization it has become a worldwide term. ...............
American natives have met asian, african and shamans from new zealand. They are now well aware of the global situation.

Thanks GreyCloud and Mague,

I concur with your statements, it is for the want for a better word that I had to use those archaic concepts.
I liked the series "Tribe" that was on the BBC very much. It was good to see some traditional culture, even though it is being threatened by industry and "modern"-life.

Here's an interesting pp17 essay which may interest some of you (Stefan, Solar?).

Neoplatonism in Science
Past and Future
Bruce MacLennan
University of Tennessee, Knoxville

I read the article, and I agree with it to a certain extant. First, I think the connotation of the word magic or magical is not well chosen, it seems to me to call up too many wrong images. I also think that to pick up the last remaining glowing embers from a temporary manifestation of what is called neo-platonics and say: this is the way it should be done in science is not good, but I personally think it is just that what the writer seems to miss, and that would be AW or PP or something like that. And it is from making it anew that might be the most inspiring for science, perhaps?

[Krackonis]

Hi Krakonis,
You wrote:

I hope this gives you a starting point from where to work from.

We are on page 22 of the thread so I think it's safe to assume that we've already got started.
I've watched the V documentary and seen the Cook site and suffice to say that I'm not a big fan of either.

In what sense. I found both to be very helpful in conglomerating different pieces of evidence from different sources. Nothing can be taken as gospel in this reconstruction we are attempting. Velikovsky's work is as important as Julian Jaynes in this regard. Both have it "wrong" but for their time, very interesting.

I am asking because I want to see if the parts you object with may be the ones I object with aswell.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Krackonis,
You wrote:

I am asking because I want to see if the parts you object with may be the ones I object with aswell.

Read the thread or at least my opening post. This thread isn't about debating the merits or otherwise of various catastrophists. Why don't you open such a thread?

[Krackonis]

Hi Krackonis,
You wrote:

I am asking because I want to see if the parts you object with may be the ones I object with aswell.

Read the thread or at least my opening post. This thread isn't about debating the merits or otherwise of various catastrophists. Why don't you open such a thread?

Sure. I'll try and divine what you are referring to through those posts then. Thank you.

[StefanR]

Following segment plunges one right in the middel of a discussion, but it starts there more or less about Homer, myth etc.
Very interesting and for those aware of the discussion in the Future of Science-forum, particularly the discussion now ongoing in the Everything that is wrong in modern science-thread, I would suggest to keep on watching the following segments unto the end, as it's seems to go into that direction as well. At least, it made that impression on me at the time of watching.
Have fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1mMgZEI ... re=related

[bboyer]

Following segment plunges one right in the middel of a discussion, but it starts there more or less about Homer, myth etc.
Very interesting and for those aware of the discussion in the Future of Science-forum, particularly the discussion now ongoing in the Everything that is wrong in modern science-thread, I would suggest to keep on watching the following segments unto the end, as it's seems to go into that direction as well. At least, it made that impression on me at the time of watching.
Have fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1mMgZEI ... re=related

Interesting. Thanks, Sefan. Looks as if this may keep me busy for a while.

http://coffeewithpierre.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32VQ2FQYdLU
(the 1st of 12 segments of the one you posted above)

http://www.youtube.com/user/openingmind
(his YouTube channel with many more videos

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=p ... =f&start=0
(a listing of his videos on Googlevideo - has some unsegmented video streams as well as the segmented YouTube clips, for those with high speed connections [Googlevideo does not limit uploads to 10 minute segments as YouTube does])

[Grey Cloud]

Hi Arc-us,
Stefan and I are long-time Pierre Grimes fans. PG was a friend of Alan Watts

On Alan Watts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElgHZwJp ... BE&index=0

[bboyer]

Hi Arc-us,
Stefan and I are long-time Pierre Grimes fans. PG was a friend of Alan Watts

On Alan Watts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElgHZwJp ... BE&index=0

So I am finding out. Yes, this is gonna occupy my time for some while, methinks. After all, "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear."

Thanks greatly to you both for this new link-up (for me). Am listening/reading, adding to my library/collection now.

[bboyer]

Just thought I'd throw this out. Two references mentioned and recommended in the video link posted by Stefan can be found here as a downloadable pdf, The Theology of Plato and The Elements of Theology, plus other works as below:

http://books.google.com/books?id=uB9dAA ... lt#PPR5,M1

THE SIX BOOKS OF PROCLUS
ON THE THEOLOGY OF PLATO, TRANSLATED FROM THE GREEK ;

TO WHICH A SEVENTH BOOK IS ADDED,
IN ORDER TO SUPPLY THE DEFICIENCY OF ANOTHER BOOK ON THIS SUBJECT,
WHICH WAS WRITTEN EY PROCLUS, BUT SINCE LOST.

ALSO, A TRANSLATION FROM THE GREEK OF
PROCLUS' ELEMENTS OF THEOLOGY.

TO WHICH ARE ADDED
A TRANSLATION OF THE TREATISE OF PROCLUS,

A TRANSLATION OF EXTRACTS FROM HIS TREATISE, ENTITLED,
TEN DOUBTS CONCERNING PROVIDENCE;

AND

A TRANSLATION OF EXTRACTS FROM HIS TREATISE
ON THE SUBSISTENCE OF EVIL,;

As preserved in the Bibliotheca Gr. of Fabricius.

BY THOMAS TAYLOR.

[StefanR]

Thanks greatly to you both for this new link-up (for me). Am listening/reading, adding to my library/collection now.

Glad you like it, it still fascinates me!
As a disclaimer, I would say if your a "lover" of Aristotle, do not enter into these pages as your beliefs will be crushed
As for the die-hards, hold on to your hat and check your shodding

[Grey Cloud]

Thread rustlers

[StefanR]

Being spurred by the crack of the whip

[bboyer]

Platonism & Alchemy
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7197&hl=en

Starting around the 46:xx mark. Wow.