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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Solar System and Planet Formation

Solar System and Planet Formation

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Is the solar system really 4.6 billion years old?

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:01 pm

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Re: Is the solar system really 4.6 billion years old?

Unread postby Jatslo » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:16 pm

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Re: Is the solar system really 4.6 billion years old?

Unread postby Jatslo » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:21 pm

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Re: Is the solar system really 4.6 billion years old?

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:40 pm

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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby JeffreyW » Thu May 01, 2014 8:55 am

Image

Seems Mr. Moon outdates the entire universe in some samples. :shock: or should I say, Miss Moon. :mrgreen:
The Main Book on Stellar Metamorphosis, Version 4
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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu May 01, 2014 9:25 am

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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby JeffreyW » Thu May 01, 2014 11:13 am

The Main Book on Stellar Metamorphosis, Version 4
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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby dougettinger » Sun May 11, 2014 5:40 am

Hello to JeffreyW and Viscount aero,

I have returned after a long trip and see that both of you are criticizing the current accepted age of the solar system. You have used sample data from the Apollo Missions to support your case.

I wish to criticize your evidence. Firstly, the age of the solar system is based on isotopes in meteorites, the age of the oldest rocks on Earth, zircon crystals on Earth, including the age of Moon rocks. The Apollo data would be the most questionable due to more chance for contamination and malfunctioning instrumentation.

Your chosen data from Apollo sample seems very skewed. In particular, the sample numbering indicates a very specific selection. Any collection of data will possess anomalous values which must be evaluated in context of the type and location of acquisition. If anomalous data gathers around a certain value then, of course, it cannot be ignored. Even so, the data for six of these samples shows a good trend toward accepted values. One must consider the Late Heavy Bombardment (LHB) period that occurred 3.9 bya and lessening bombardment occurring over the next 900 million years on the Moon's surface.

You just cannot rule out all the data because certain anomalous values are indicated unless these values show a trend and begin to overpopulate the sampling. So, gentlemen of science, what is your best educated guess of the age of the solar system. You do believe it had a beginning?

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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby viscount aero » Sun May 11, 2014 10:22 am

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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby dougettinger » Mon May 12, 2014 6:54 am

Hello Viscount aero,

"I'm not in love with or focusing solely on Apollo data as that data, too, may be erroneous. However the alleged relative age discrepancies between the Earth and Moon are quite compelling. If science is in love with radiometric dating then it must accept that the Moon may be older than Earth." quote by viscount

Yes, I agree, the Moon was made at a different time than the Earth. But the span of time between their births should only be in the 100,000-years to one million-year range which was determined from the data. You are right, the solar system was not instantly made within a very short period.

Also, the Late Heavy Bombardment period peaked at 3.9 bya and lasted about 900 million years. This massive disruption of an organized solar system was either caused by impacts and/or arcing between close encounters of highly magnetic cosmic bodies. Nevertheless, this disruption was either caused by the capture of later cosmic bodies or the currently accepted model of the Nice hypothesis. I definitely favor the capture of later bodies.

"We've already gone over this, mate. There is no conclusive way to date the solar system particularly if its members, the Sun, planets, asteroids, planetoids, comets, are migratory visitors. There is no way to date these things because traces of their orgin are vanished forever. For example, what if the solar system is more akin to tree rings whereby the layers represent epochs? That would make the inner solar system much older than the outer. That is but one example." by aero

"To cling to the probably myopic and flawed base idea that the solar system all formed as one mass, at the same relative time, is to assume that that model is the most plausible one--which it isn't. On the contrary, solar nebular collapse is highly specious and physically reaching of an idea. "Hot gas" in outer space tends to dissipate, not collapse. Moreover, cold debris tends to remain that way--cold and dusty and un-accreted. Cold dust does not accrete and then ignite into a thermonuclear bomb in space.[/quote] by Viscount aero

Yes, I agree that a star and its organized system of planets and/or any binary brethren star are formed by electromagnetic phenomena which is later during its evolution dominated by gravitational forces. Like you, I do not believe in most of the tenets of the nebular hypothesis.

However, do you agree that radiometric dating in spite of some of its erroneous nature does provide a rough span of time when the solar system was constructed by both electromagnetic and gravitational phenomena?

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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon May 12, 2014 11:12 am

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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon May 12, 2014 12:42 pm

More issues with radiometric dating:
https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/1 ... -part-two/

excerpt:

"Thus, the extinction of the dinosaurs is said to have taken place over 65 million years ago. However, the popular notion that the geologic column represents vast periods of time is being questioned by a number of geologists who realize that it most likely results from a series of catastrophic events.

Nicolaus Steno is often said to be the father of geology. His “principle of superposition” influences geologists to this day, even though it was formulated in the late 1600s. In many ways it seems to be completely straight forward, but only now is it recognized that it was not based on experiments but on field observation.

“At the time when any given stratum was being formed, all the matter resting upon it was fluid, and, therefore, at the time when the lower stratum was being formed, none of the upper strata existed.”

In February 2000, Guy Berthault wrote a paper in which he described several experiments that analyzed the hydraulic processes involved with sedimentary layering. His conclusions were subsequently published in Lithology and Mineral Resources, Vol. 37, No. 5. Under conditions of constant flow rate and a continuous supply of particles, he discovered that a mixture of coarse and fine particles would separate into thin laminations.

Material flowing through a flume under simulated flood conditions created a downstream deposit that sorted into several horizontal strata that continued to build up on the advancing face. The unusual aspect to the deposition of particles is that each layer was composed of laminations younger than those farther back. Rather than top stratum being younger than the bottom, all strata were deposited simultaneously in a horizontal fashion. As the paper states: “Superposed strata are not, therefore, necessarily identical to successive sedimentary layers.”

Another problem with the superposed strata theory is speed of erosion. The current weathering rate for the continental shelves is thought to be six centimeters per thousand years. Therefore, in less than 10 million years today’s continental shelves will erode away. The difficulty with that assessment is that sediments hundreds of millions of years old are on top of all the continental shelves. How can this be when that material should have all washed away in the Cenozoic era?

Since rock layers are often dated by the type of fossil contained within them, and experiments reveal that the deposition of sediments containing pre-fossil skeletons can no longer be based on the principle of superposition, then rock layers can no longer be dated in that way.

Another problem with gradualism in geology is the radiometric dating of rocks. Rocks are typically dated using the principle of constant radioactive isotope decay rates and an assumption of the estimated original isotope ratios. The oldest rocks are dated using the uranium/lead half-life ratios.

When rocks form, they contain a certain percentage of elements. Zircon contains uranium and thorium atoms, but no lead. Therefore, the assumption is that all the lead in zircon must be radiogenic. This idea depends on a uniform, gradual process free of sudden alteration. If the decay rates of various elements can be altered by external influences, then the percentage formulae that indicate a sample’s age are unreliable.

“There has been in recent years the horrible realization that radiodecay rates are not as constant as previously thought, nor are they immune to environmental influences. And this could mean that the atomic clocks are reset during some global disaster, and events which brought the Mesozoic to a close may not be 65 million years ago but, rather, within the age and memory of man.” Fred Jueneman, FAIC, Industrial Research & Development, p.21, June 1982."
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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon May 12, 2014 4:37 pm

This finding summarily disproves establishment geological dating of rock strata. It's quite shocking in light of what we have been led to believe about geology:
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwA6CGwp ... re=related
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjXjf9dR6A0
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ5yJeSrzyw
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7exxtkN8610
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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby dougettinger » Mon May 12, 2014 5:42 pm

To Viscount aero,

Thank you for your lengthy reply. I am just beginning to understand the controversy between gradualism and catastrophism in fossils. I read all your suggested references.

A question arose for me about the dating of a column of geological strata on Earth. Earth is really the only known solar system body with significant plate tectonics, continental drift, volcanism, along with wind and water erosion and the wasting of land masses. Hence, Earth may be the only celestial body in the solar system to have such strata that can reveal a timeline of catastrophies for the solar system. The other bodies can only show the build-up or accumulation of electrical arcing affects over the eons of time including those of actual impacts. Hence, it is difficult to create any timeline of major solar system events on the moons and other planets except for possible crater counting methods. Do you agree with this conclusion?

I should assume if electrical plasma discharges were being released on the Earth's surface at various times to petrify fauna and flora into rock material, then the plasma only existed in broad linear finite sheets that did not cover the entire landmass. Otherwise, all life would have been extinguished. These plasma ribbon most likely following magnetic field lines on the Earth's surface running generally longitudinally. Do you agree with this conclusion?

Having great pleasure in our discussions,
Doug Ettinger
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Re: How old is the solar system per EU's estimation?

Unread postby john666 » Mon May 12, 2014 10:02 pm

If creationist methods of dating are basically correct, that would indicate that Earth is not older than few thousand years.
And if the Earth is so "young", then maybe the Solar system is also, only a few thousand years old.
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