Three nondenominational theological implications

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Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Scott MC » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:41 am

1. An electric universe implies that physical matter ('earthed' charges) is 0.001% of everything.

That confirms every main theological tradition's underlying assertion.



2. An implication of matter being so minute a proportion of the universal substance is that we not only exist despite all the improbabilities that we can perceive, but also all those we cannot, the other 99.999%

Our existence defies chance.



3. How optimistic, scientific and tfa is the pursuit of a science that relegates all current knowledge and experience to at theoretical best 0.001% possible correctness?
99.999+% of everything can't be that simple, can it?
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Shrike » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:51 pm

Scott MC wrote:1. An electric universe implies that physical matter ('earthed' charges) is 0.001% of everything.

Are you suggesting that 99.999 % is unphysical matter or virtual matter ??
Matter is physical by definition.
I am not so sure (im pretty sure but im not putting words in EU's mouth) that EU implies that at all. everything is physical if it's not physical it's not a thing

2. An implication of matter being so minute a proportion of the universal substance is that we not only exist despite all the improbabilities that we can perceive, but also all those we cannot, the other 99.999%


Universal substance, substance is physical it's a thing.

Explain... please
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Scott MC » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:58 pm

Soz, I meant - solids, liquids, fire, gases. cf: plasma
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Scott MC » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:47 am

Shrike wrote:
Scott MC wrote:1. An electric universe implies that physical matter ('earthed' charges) is 0.001% of everything.

Are you suggesting that 99.999 % is unphysical matter or virtual matter ??
Matter is physical by definition.
I am not so sure (im pretty sure but im not putting words in EU's mouth) that EU implies that at all. everything is physical if it's not physical it's not a thing

2. An implication of matter being so minute a proportion of the universal substance is that we not only exist despite all the improbabilities that we can perceive, but also all those we cannot, the other 99.999%


Universal substance, substance is physical it's a thing.

Explain... please




1. An electric universe implies that solids, liquids, (fire), and gasses (I call them 'earthed' charges in a euphemistic way, because if we focus on the charge situation in the various states of matter rather than the various physical characteristics taking place a gradation is observed in electron mobility i.e. plasma occurence. Where plasmas end our 'solid ground' begins..) comprise 0.001% of everything. Mobile charges,plasmas, comprise the balance.

That confirms every main theological tradition's underlying assertion re: the insignificance of 'the world' and 'things of the world' to semi-paraphrase.



2. An implication of matter being so minute a proportion of the universal substance is that we not only exist despite all the improbabilities that we can perceive, but also all those we cannot, the other 99.999%

Our existence defies chance.



3. How optimistic, scientific and tfa is the pursuit of a science that relegates all current knowledge and experience to at theoretical best 0.001% possible correctness?
99.999+% of everything can't be that simple, can it?
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Scott MC » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:37 pm

4. Gross matter is a product of subtle processes.

re: 1. The overwhelming majority of what goes on in the universe has almost nothing (but never actually nothing) to do with gross physical substances, observable matter.
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... or is it teleological? Latest draft ....

Unread postby Scott MC » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:58 pm

so,

1. In the electric universe, matter the subject of Newton's Laws comprises a tiny portion of overall matter, less than 0.001%.

Of the four states of matter (solids, liquids, gasses and plasma [to which I add 'thermos', heat].) plasma is far less subject to Newton's laws than it is to the simplest and most basic of all laws - those relating to charges. Laws relating to charges regulate 99.99+% of all matter.

"Things of this world", i.e. observables, really are insignificant, and yet...

2. An implication of matter being so minute a proportion of the universal substance is that we not only exist despite all the improbabilities that we can perceive, but also all those we cannot - the other 99.99+%.

Our existence defies probability, ridiculously. Any previous assessment of human existential dependencies needs recalculation in light of EU.

3. Plasma is a subject matter the scope and scale of which defies all pretensions of human wisdom and superiority. It is an opportunity for real science and genuine discovery.
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Scott MC » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:09 am

5. The other three states of matter (solids, liquids and gasses) act as insulators and as vehicles for charges, hense Ohms apply :D
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby nick c » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:58 am

Scott MC wrote: An implication of matter being so minute a proportion of the universal substance is that we not only exist despite all the improbabilities that we can perceive, but also all those we cannot - the other 99.99+%.
hi Scott MC,
I would argue that matter is 100% of the substance of the universe, if not what else can a substance be made of?
It seems that you are referring to the states of matter; with plasma being 99+% and the other three states comprising the remainder of the universe, But then you make an unwarranted conclusion that since the world we are familiar with is within the less than a 1% portion of the universe, our existence somehow defies the laws of probabilities. That conclusion is unjustified....our existence being dependent upon environments that are dominated by solids, liquids, and gases just indicates that we could not survive (for long) in the vast majority of places in the universe, on the Sun for example. We have to live in a special, yes, very rare type of environment, either natural (the Earth or other hospitable world) or one of our own creation (a spaceship for example). These environments may be extremely rare, yet the vastness of the universe almost demands that they exist in large quantities. (The Drake equation is an attempt to calculate habitable worlds.) I would suggest that the probabilities are high and almost inevitable, that we (or life forms of a similar development or type) would exist, but the there is no way, that I can think of, to calculate the probabilities of our existence. We are here... and the universe appears (from our perspective) to be without beginning or end, allowing for the existence of just about anything for which we are capable of imagining!
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Scott MC » Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:38 am

nick c wrote:
Scott MC wrote: An implication of matter being so minute a proportion of the universal substance is that we not only exist despite all the improbabilities that we can perceive, but also all those we cannot - the other 99.99+%.
hi Scott MC,
I would argue that matter is 100% of the substance of the universe, if not what else can a substance be made of?
It seems that you are referring to the states of matter; with plasma being 99+% and the other three states comprising the remainder of the universe, But then you make an unwarranted conclusion that since the world we are familiar with is within the less than a 1% portion of the universe, our existence somehow defies the laws of probabilities. That conclusion is unjustified....our existence being dependent upon environments that are dominated by solids, liquids, and gases just indicates that we could not survive (for long) in the vast majority of places in the universe, on the Sun for example. We have to live in a special, yes, very rare type of environment, either natural (the Earth or other hospitable world) or one of our own creation (a spaceship for example). These environments may be extremely rare, yet the vastness of the universe almost demands that they exist in large quantities. (The Drake equation is an attempt to calculate habitable worlds.) I would suggest that the probabilities are high and almost inevitable, that we (or life forms of a similar development or type) would exist, but the there is no way, that I can think of, to calculate the probabilities of our existence. We are here... and the universe appears (from our perspective) to be without beginning or end, allowing for the existence of just about anything for which we are capable of imagining!


Yes, thank you Nick, my fault was to confuse matter with solids. That's what I was trying to get at, that matter existing in the classical states is an infinitesimal proportion of total matter, if there is a total.

99.9+% of matter acts according to Electro-Magnetic laws (i.e. is some kind of plasma or other) and so behaves in extraordinarily complex ways - in terms of maths it's pretty much totally off the chart out of the lab*. As the SKA comes online a lot will become a lot clearer let's hope

* Correct me if I'm wrong
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby jtb » Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:36 am

Is space matter?

Everything in the universe that we see, don't see, or imagine that we see, is moving, rotating, revolving, and changing positions. This motion produces an electric charge that attracts similar atoms (a table) or repels dissimilar atoms (a cup sitting on the table) preventing them from passing through each other.

Protons, electrons, and the nucleus of an atom are extremely tiny elemental particles. Big Bangers estimate that all the actual matter (particles) in the universe can be condensed into a very heavy sphere the size of a grapefruit. As the universe condenses, the space between the particles also condenses until it disappears.

I contend that space is a form of matter (aether) that we do not have the technology to observe or detect, otherwise, space is nothing, and elemental particles existing in nothing is supernatural, or a religious belief.

So, where did elemental particles come from and what is the medium in which they were placed?
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Scott MC » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:31 am

Typically the theistic stand on matter is that it is:

a) Full of perplexities

b) Not our natural / optimal environment

c) Possible to transcend or mitigate the influence of undesirable aspects of via some of systematic means or other.
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Re: Three nondenominational theological implications

Unread postby Sparky » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:17 am

2. An implication of matter being so minute a proportion of the universal substance is that we not only exist despite all the improbabilities that we can perceive, but also all those we cannot, the other 99.999%

Our existence defies chance.


Essentially, isn't your argument one of a "fallacy of ignorance?"

You are uncomfortable with "not knowing", so in your desperate search for a rational to explain all that you do not know. Resistance is futile. Give in to ignorance. :D
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