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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixed

Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixed

Has science taken a wrong turn? If so, what corrections are needed? Chronicles of scientific misbehavior. The role of heretic-pioneers and forbidden questions in the sciences. Is peer review working? The perverse "consensus of leading scientists." Good public relations versus good science.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby Solar » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:28 am

"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:06 pm

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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby Solar » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:14 pm

"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:58 am

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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:05 pm

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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby Solar » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:42 pm

"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby Plasmatic » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:38 pm

"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
Ayn Rand
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle
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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:29 am

The Human Mind is NOT Like a Computer

The unfortunate byproduct of refusing to learn something is that you don't know what you don't know. In this particular instance, there is a choice which is being made to ignore the mental model which is being suggested by Daniel Kahneman, which I thought was important enough to teach to people that I sat there and typed the entire 50-minute transcript in. Kahneman received the Nobel prize for this work, and it has already been successfully applied to more than one discipline.

When you go out of your way to avoid constructing an accurate mental model for how people actually think, your mind is then free to make up any story it wishes, to yourself. (In fact, this tendency is a very important part of that system, and is therefore part of what we would otherwise be modeling!). By leaving a void in place where you could opt to put a model that is based upon actual observations of actual human decision-making, you are making a decision to refuse the opportunity to look at your own decision-making from a perspective other than your own.

You have arrived at an opportunity to learn a tool which can help you to reflect upon how you think. Knowing this information could drastically improve your ability to think clearly, and it would -- without a doubt -- improve your ability to relate your ideas to the ideas of others. Learning how the mind works is not a form of witchcraft. And neither will this model be at all like the simple story that you have convinced yourself of. And that is actually a very important part of the problem which the EU faces today: People are making sweeping assumptions about how the mind works which we now know to be completely FALSE.

And your choice at this point in time is to refuse that knowledge. What I am telling you is that this choice has enormous consequences for your own ability to come up with an idea which will be relevant to what is happening in the world of people. After all, the people you would be competing against ARE learning this model, and they already ARE using it to get you to do, buy and think things today. Right now, in fact. You don't get to opt out, unless you decide to move to a deserted island, or sit in an isolation tank all day long. If you learned the model, you'd very clearly see the reasons for all of this.

The world is not like a television. It doesn't happen TO us. We are a PART of it. If it seems to anybody here that you lack an ability to change the world, the reason is not because THEY are doing it to YOU. It's because YOU are refusing to learn the things which YOU would need to know in order to CHANGE IT.

That probably sounds rude to some people. I am probably crossing some sort of a line. You don't even know me. How would I know anything about what you are thinking?

Please stop wasting my time, and learn the model, guys. I should be working on the design right now, and instead I am here trying to convince you to watch a 50-minute YouTube lecture on a subject which, in truth, should interest you at least a little bit.
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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:16 am

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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby Plasmatic » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:26 pm

"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
Ayn Rand
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle
Plasmatic
 
Posts: 800
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:14 pm

Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:34 am

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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:29 pm

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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:55 am

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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:33 pm

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Re: Online scientific discourse is broken and it can be fixe

Unread postby pln2bz » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:06 am

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