Earth - electric oceans

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Earth - electric oceans

Unread postby MrAmsterdam » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:59 am

I guess that a natural philosopher would observe all the properties of seawater (salts, minerals and water) and then try to explain how different kind of organisms use these observed properties of the medium for their own advantage.

so;
What sawfish really do with their saw

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-sawfish.html

“Northern Australia is considered to be the last stronghold in the world for four species of sawfish,” says Barbara Wueringer who works at the universities of Queensland and Western Australia and with Cairns Marine (an aquarium fish collecting company). “But if we do not understand these animals, we will not be able to save them.”

Sawfish are beautiful and mystic ancient predators, Barbara says. They are regularly taken as by-catch in fisheries, and their fins and saws are traded as highly priced medicines, curios and culinary delicacies. The saws are packed with sensors known as ampullary pores which can detect electric fields, the distribution of which is influenced by how the sawfish captures its prey.

Barbara compared the distribution of ampullary pores in four species of sawfish, which all inhabit remote ecosystems in northern Australia. She found that sawfish have much more concentrated collections of pores on the upper side of the saw than their relatives the shovel-nosed rays. This indicates that they use their saw to detect prey in the three-dimensional space above the saw.


So one of the properties of seawater is that it could propagate an electric field. Sawfish use this property of seawater to hunt for prey. If form follows function then the "saw"fish should be renamed into "antenna"fish
BTW, it seems that different sharc species next to scent sensors also hunt on their prey by use of electromagnetic sensors.

---

PS.
Allynh, the "How Water Shapes DNA" observation is I think closely related to studies of the now controversial noble price winner Luc Montagnier:
- Electromagnetic signals are produced by aqueous nanostructures derived from bacterial DNA
- DNA between Physics and Biology - DNA waves and water
http://montagnier.net/montagnier/index. ... lications/


Bacteria on the Radio: DNA Could Act as Antenna
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/ ... ial-radio/
The claims were embraced by homeopaths, and Montagnier himself became involved in a dubiously designed clinical trial of autistic children. Eventually he left France to head a research institute at Jiaotong University in Shanghai, telling Science that he sought to escape the constrictions of intellectually fearful European scientists. “It’s not pseudoscience. It’s not quackery. These are real phenomena which deserve further study,” he said.
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934
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Aquatic Birkeland Currents?

Unread postby rkm » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:05 am

Persistent whirlpools... could they be Birkeland Currents connecting atmosphere with ocean floor?

http://www.dvice.com/2013-9-24/scientis ... =pulsenews
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Re: Aquatic Birkeland Currents?

Unread postby Maol » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:03 am

At 3:30 in the video linked in this post,

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14626

observe the formation of eddies in the liquid Mercury caused by the passing magnetic field. Further in the film are descriptions of the rotational properties of magnetohydrodynamic phenomena.
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Tides on tides off

Unread postby beekeeper » Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:15 pm

Greetings I somewhat researched the causes of the low and high tides all over the world. Regardless of the strength or weakness of the phenomenon it is always in relation to the gravitational pull of the moon mainly and other gravitational influence of other celestial bodies. The concept is that the tide will always be stronger on a full moon..My problem with that is that the moon while being. Half or a quarter or less is as a mass in the sky always full. So how can such a difference be applied just because more light is retracted from it? Regards Beekeeper
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby nick c » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:40 am

hi beekeeper,
The concept is that the tide will always be stronger on a full moon..My problem with that is that the moon while being. Half or a quarter or less is as a mass in the sky always full. So how can such a difference be applied just because more light is retracted from it? Regards Beekeeper
It has nothing to do with how much of the Moon's sphere is lit up by the Sun. It has to do with how the three bodies (Earth-Moon-Sun) are lined up. The tide is highest when the three are arranged in a straight line, this is called a "spring tide." (It has nothing to do with the season of the same name.) Spring tides occur during a New or Full Moon, about every two weeks; the difference in tide height between different spring tides would be determined by the Moon's distance from the Earth at New or Full Moon. If Perigee occurs at a New Moon than that will be the highest tide; the same for the Full.
Here is a good summary.
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby Aardwolf » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:18 am

No satisfactory explanation why there are two tides a day though.
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby nick c » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:26 pm

Aardwolf wrote:No satisfactory explanation why there are two tides a day though.
Apparently there are different explanations for that, depending on who you ask.

Here are some of them, although the author has one (Newton 1687) that he considers correct:
http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/~mathelmr/te ... tides.html
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby Aardwolf » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:07 pm

nick c wrote:
Aardwolf wrote:No satisfactory explanation why there are two tides a day though.
Apparently there are different explanations for that, depending on who you ask.

Here are some of them, although the author has one (Newton 1687) that he considers correct:
http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/~mathelmr/te ... tides.html

None of the "explanations" work. Stating the Moon has less pull on the oceans on the far side makes no logical sense. The distance between the oceans is only the width of the Earth, 12,742km. However the variation between the Moons apogee and perigee is around 42,208km. This means the pull of the Moon on the far side ocean at perigee should be greater than the pull on the near side ocean at apogee.
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby beekeeper » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:15 pm

Greetings again. According to some researchers the oceans as well as the large bodies of fresh water are electrically charged. For some the oceans have a negative charge for a few tens of meters from the surface, as the fresh water bodies are charged differently. So electrical interaction may very well be at play in the coming and going of the tides. For example the earth magnetic field at the core is reported to revolve faster or slower then the crust the oceans are sitting on. Could this electrical interaction with the charged surface of the oceans have something to do with the sequence and the strength of the tides over and above the gravitational forces involved. keeping in mind that the moon is also electrically charged. If that makes any sense or not I am not sure but from the EU perspective electricity is orders of magnitude stronger than gravity. Looking for more perspective please regards Beekeeper
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby nick c » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:50 pm

Aardwolf wrote:The distance between the oceans is only the width of the Earth, 12,742km. However the variation between the Moons apogee and perigee is around 42,208km. This means the pull of the Moon on the far side ocean at perigee should be greater than the pull on the near side ocean at apogee.
I do not see the how the Moon's distance differential between apogee and perigee would have a bearing, other than that the height of the tides which vary accordingly. Whatever the distance to the Moon, it is not going to vary much in the course of a day. There would still be about a 3 per cent difference in the distance between the Moon to the far point and near point of the Earth.
Anyway, one thing is certain - there are two tides per day.
Do you have an alternate explanation for two tides in a day?
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby Aardwolf » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:10 pm

nick c wrote:
Aardwolf wrote:The distance between the oceans is only the width of the Earth, 12,742km. However the variation between the Moons apogee and perigee is around 42,208km. This means the pull of the Moon on the far side ocean at perigee should be greater than the pull on the near side ocean at apogee.
I do not see the how the Moon's distance differential between apogee and perigee would have a bearing, other than that the height of the tides which vary accordingly. Whatever the distance to the Moon, it is not going to vary much in the course of a day. There would still be about a 3 per cent difference in the distance between the Moon to the far point and near point of the Earth.
Are you sure about that? If you look at the tide data, while I agree the tide is at it highest point during perigee with the moon directly above, the tide at the same point 12 hours later (with the moon on the other side of the Earth) is also at its greatest point during the month. The water at that point is actually closer to the moon than it would be during apogee with the moon directly above so it should be pulled closer to the Moon and lowering the tide, not creating its highest opposing tide.

Even more inexplicable, during apogee, the high tide is actually lower when the moon is directly above than it is 12 hours later! This means for 14 days the tide is higher when the moon is above and for the next 14 it's higher when the moon is furthest away.

nick c wrote:Anyway, one thing is certain - there are two tides per day.
Do you have an alternate explanation for two tides in a day?
I suspect the moon is interfering with the Earths EM field causing it to distort which in turn distorts the oceans (and the atmosphere as well) fairly uniformly in both the facing and non-facing hemispheres.
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby Sparky » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:00 am

It's not the degree of sucking, it is the timing of blowing! :D Two tides is caused by two oceans and two continents...basically. Smaller land masses and seas come to play with slight variations of tides. http://milesmathis.com/tide5.html
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:35 pm

This is an expected property of electrostatics. I'll look around for a simulation of this. I know I've seen one, but I couldn't find it immediately. In the meantime, I can just describe it verbally.

Consider that the Earth is negatively charged, surrounded by a positively charged ionosphere. And consider that the Moon also has a negative charge (though it doesn't have much of an atmosphere). Due to the electric force, the +ions are attracted to the negative bodies, and the equal-but-opposite force is that the negative bodies are attracted to the +ions. Also consider that both the +ions and the water on the surface of the Earth are free to flow.

Between the Earth and the Moon, there is a concentration of negative field. The ionosphere then flows toward that concentration. Then comes the first equal-but-opposite reaction -- with more +ions on one side, the negatively charged water on the Earth's surface is attracted to the +ions, thus producing the high tide on the near side. (This is Feynman's "like-likes-like" force, calling attention to the fact that two charged bodies -- in our case, the Earth and the Moon -- which should repel each other, actually experience a mutual attraction to a shared opposite charge between them.) This also mimics the action of gravity, at least on that side.

But as you have noted, unlike the expectations of gravity, there is also a high tide on the other side. This also follows from the electrostatics. Once there is a concentration of negatively charged water on the near side, negatively charged water on the far side is repelled. It senses little attraction to the more distant +ions on the near side, due to the inverse square law. So the net force acting on the water on the far side is repulsion from the water on the near side, resulting in a high tide on the opposite side of the Earth.

Analogously, if you had a helium atom, with two protons and two electrons, you'd expect the electrons to be at opposite sides of the atom (only taking electrostatics into account). Both electrons are attracted to the nucleus, but they're also repelled from each other. So they cling to the nucleus, but distribute themselves so that they can be as far from each other as possible. Now if you wave another nucleus around, the nearest electron will align itself between the two nuclei, attracted to the protons in each. But the second electron will align itself opposite of the first one, because the more powerful force acting on it is the repulsion from the first electron.
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby Sparky » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:30 am

..
..
.. :shock:


:?


Why does opposite side tide result from charge on nearside?Why doesn't charge influence evenly, to north, and south? :?
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Re: Tides on tides off

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:15 am

Sparky wrote:Why does opposite side tide result from charge on nearside?

The oceans are negatively charged. The build-up of negative charge on the near side, due to attraction to the positively charged ionosphere on the near side, results in electrostatic repulsion of the water on the far side, in a mirror image. Like charges always repel, and a concentration of them repels even more. The repulsion supplies the force necessary to create a similar concentration on the opposite side.

All of these forces are always in equilibrium, and you just add it all up to get the result. Positive charges in the ionosphere repel each other, but are attracted to the negatively charged Earth, and to a lesser extent, the Moon. The negative charges in the ocean repel each other, but are attracted to the positively charged ionosphere. All other factors being the same, the negative charges in the ocean would be evenly distributed, and so would the positive charges in the ionosphere. But if another factor comes into play, and alters the distribution of any one of these concentrations, it will alter all of the rest of them, in equal-but-opposite fashion.

Sparky wrote:Why doesn't charge influence evenly, to north, and south?

What do you mean?
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