It's confusing yes but the Moon does rotate whether you believe it does or notjtb wrote:Viscount aero, If you look closely at my last post you will notice that I accidentally proved your point. I haven't changed my view, but it shows how confusing an issue this is.
jtb
Does the Moon Rotate?
- viscount aero
- Posts: 2381
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California
- Contact:
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
-
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:36 am
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
Tidal locking is the illusion of one rotation for every revolution as a result of the object and its axis changing direction simultaneously.
A stationary object continually facing the same direction is not rotating.
A stationary object continually facing a different direction is rotating.
An object moving in a circle always facing the same direction, the direction of motion, is not rotating: it is simply changing direction.
The moon always faces the direction of motion: it is not rotating.
jtb
A stationary object continually facing the same direction is not rotating.
A stationary object continually facing a different direction is rotating.
An object moving in a circle always facing the same direction, the direction of motion, is not rotating: it is simply changing direction.
The moon always faces the direction of motion: it is not rotating.
jtb
- viscount aero
- Posts: 2381
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California
- Contact:
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
I understand your premise as presented above but it is not true, ol boyjtb wrote:Tidal locking is the illusion of one rotation for every revolution as a result of the object and its axis changing direction simultaneously.
A stationary object continually facing the same direction is not rotating.
A stationary object continually facing a different direction is rotating.
An object moving in a circle always facing the same direction, the direction of motion, is not rotating: it is simply changing direction.
The moon always faces the direction of motion: it is not rotating.
jtb
-
- Posts: 1330
- Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:56 am
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
It's not always facing it's direction of motion around the sun.jtb wrote:The moon always faces the direction of motion: it is not rotating.
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:37 am
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
On the positive side, a while ago you finally managed to perform the bowls and water experiment. On the negative side, you didn't try to draw any conclusions from it or explain the discrepancy between that and your rotating hand experiment. You have ignored that bodies freely rotate in space, so that to maintain the same face to the Earth while orbiting it, the moon must rotate. You have also ignored liberation, which clearly shows that the moon is not always facing "in the same direction" from a stationary Earth point of view.jtb wrote:The moon always faces the direction of motion: it is not rotating.
-
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:36 pm
- Location: Wales
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
The Moon would be continuously changing direction, but not rotating.
This diagram shows that if the Moon rotates about its polar axis (the small black dot) at the rate of one rotation per orbit, then the big black dot would always face Earth.
The Moon would be continuously changing direction and rotating.
So which scenario most accurately describes the relationship between the Moon and the Earth ?.....and why ?.
Michael
-
- Posts: 3517
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
So which scenario most accurately describes the relationship between the Moon and the Earth ?.....and why ?.
if tied by a piece of string between their centres,
The moon revolves. There is no string....
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
- viscount aero
- Posts: 2381
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California
- Contact:
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
Exactly.Sparky wrote:So which scenario most accurately describes the relationship between the Moon and the Earth ?.....and why ?.if tied by a piece of string between their centres,
The moon revolves. There is no string....
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:37 am
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
The answer has already been given, over and over. Bodies in space rotate freely, unlike a ball on a string. Try and get your ball to show a different face while twirling it around. Yet we have no problems spinning objects in space at arbitrary rates as they orbit. And yet again, libration shows the moon is rotating and not fixed to show the same face to Earth. If you can't answer what causes the libration effect (if not rotation), yet still argue the moon isn't rotating about its axis freely like any other object in space, you are arguing out of willful ignorance.Michael V wrote:So which scenario most accurately describes the relationship between the Moon and the Earth ?.....and why ?
-
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:36 pm
- Location: Wales
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
chrimony et al,
First of all, you should note that I made no argument one way or the other. I was merely attempting to tease out reasoned arguments.
And why do "bodies in space" rotate?.
And why do they rotate "freely"?.
Your answer regarding the question of the thread title may well be correct, I am not arguing for or against it. However, if you are able, I would be interested in your answers to my other questions.
Michael
First of all, you should note that I made no argument one way or the other. I was merely attempting to tease out reasoned arguments.
If anything, that was my point. Both scenarios produce the same result, unless some additional logic is brought to bear.chrimony wrote:Try and get your ball to show a different face while twirling it around.
Can you please give a detailed definition of "rotate".chrimony wrote:Bodies in space rotate freely
And why do "bodies in space" rotate?.
And why do they rotate "freely"?.
Can you explain the concept and mechanism of "rotating about its axis freely"?chrimony wrote:...rotating about its axis freely...
Can you please explain why this should be so?.chrimony wrote:...like any other object in space,
Your answer regarding the question of the thread title may well be correct, I am not arguing for or against it. However, if you are able, I would be interested in your answers to my other questions.
Michael
- viscount aero
- Posts: 2381
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
- Location: Los Angeles, California
- Contact:
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
Michael V posted the best illustrations yet for the Moon's rotation about its axis, the comparisons he gave. He wasn't posting "out of willful ignorance." And chrimony should hit the bong or take a xanax before posting, ie, take a chill pill. Everyone except for him is ignorant and clueless about life.
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:37 am
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
The diagrams added nothing new to the conversation. I saw no reply about libration or any attempt at acknowledging the arguments already given. How many times has it been mentioned, only to not be addressed? D_Archer acknowledged it as convincing evidence and moved on, to his credit. The other doubters just ignore it.viscount aero wrote:Michael V posted the best illustrations yet for the Moon's rotation about its axis, the comparisons he gave. He wasn't posting "out of willful ignorance."
-
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:37 am
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
Reasoned arguments that have already been given. And you already gave a position early in this thread: "The Moon does not rotate around its own axis and it does not revolve around its own axis. The Moon does rotate around the Earth with one side permanently facing the Earth and it does revolve around the Earth with one side permanently facing the Earth."Michael V wrote:First of all, you should note that I made no argument one way or the other. I was merely attempting to tease out reasoned arguments.
They don't. Libration proves that. Satellites that don't always face the same direction orbiting in space prove that. You made an analogy to a ball tied to a string. The differences have been pointed out.Michael V wrote:If anything, that was my point. Both scenarios produce the same result, unless some additional logic is brought to bear.chrimony wrote:Try and get your ball to show a different face while twirling it around.
How about instead you first address libration, which shows that the Moon does not always show the same face to the Earth.Michael V wrote:Can you please give a detailed definition of "rotate".chrimony wrote:Bodies in space rotate freely
And why do "bodies in space" rotate?.
And why do they rotate "freely"?.
Can you explain the concept and mechanism of "rotating about its axis freely"?chrimony wrote:...rotating about its axis freely...
Can you please explain why this should be so?.chrimony wrote:...like any other object in space,
Your answer regarding the question of the thread title may well be correct, I am not arguing for or against it. However, if you are able, I would be interested in your answers to my other questions.
-
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:36 am
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
Chrimony, my conclusion was that your small bowl, which you say is the moon, did not rotate; therefore, there was no discrepancy between your experiment and mine. Neither your moon nor mine rotated.chrimony wrote:On the positive side, a while ago you finally managed to perform the bowls and water experiment. On the negative side, you didn't try to draw any conclusions from it or explain the discrepancy between that and your rotating hand experiment. You have ignored that bodies freely rotate in space, so that to maintain the same face to the Earth while orbiting it, the moon must rotate. You have also ignored liberation, which clearly shows that the moon is not always facing "in the same direction" from a stationary Earth point of view.
If you hold a wheel by its axle and move in a circle, simulating bodies freely rotating in space, you get the illusion of rotation, but the wheel remains stationary on the axle.
Liberation is oscillation, not rotation, due to orbits not being perfect circles.
-
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:36 am
Re: Does the Moon Rotate?
Michael, in both diagrams the pole and the object are moving in the same direction as if attached. If rotating, a mark on the pole would match a mark on the object once per revolution. The pole is moving in a circle at the same rate as the object: the object is not rotating on the pole.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 85 guests