Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Bomb20 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:58 pm

The problem I have with the Saturn theory is that I can't see when it could have happened. Here's the Vostok temperature record for the past 420,000 years. There are no singularities in this record. There's just an ongoing fractal pattern of semi-regular spikes. Surely a shift of Suns would show up as a temperature singularity, or a transition to a new pattern, wouldn't it?


If the Vostok temperatur report is based on wrong assumptions and in fact only representing (for example) 4200 years then the record is useless and can not show any singularity which one could expect after a shift of suns. However, this is open to further discussion.

I could "buy" or accept a catastrophic build-up of the thick ice layers there but we have a more fundamental problem.

How could life on Earth survive a shift of suns? We must have had more luck than brains if this happened.
This shift must have been extremely smooth to be surviveable. Are there any models or at least basic assumptions existing which define how life on Earth could survive such an event?
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby moses » Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:11 am

How could life on Earth survive a shift of suns? We must have had more luck than brains if this happened.
This shift must have been extremely smooth to be surviveable. Are there any models or at least basic assumptions existing which define how life on Earth could survive such an event?
Bomb20

In a word - underground. And so could Earth have survived the exit from the previous configuration. I think that this is quite likely. so the problem is the extremely cold conditions likely to have been encountered after the break-up and how long those conditions lasted. Well my theory is that the Earth would have gone into an elliptical orbit around the Sun, in which case it might well have been that it was about 10 years of extreme cold before nearing the Sun.

So could life have survived underground for 10 years ?
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Bomb20 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:30 am

Hi Mo,

I could imagine survival of primitive life all the time - but higher and especially human life is more difficult to keep!

Imagine the temperatur outside would fall to -50 or -100 °C. You won´t survive, even if you had a warm quarter in the underground. You need to search for food but the plants are frozen and animals dying in coldness and darkness!

It only works if there is a mechanism working for a "smooth" and fast transition or some very lucky circumstances exist and help to survive an extreme cold time.

For example the end of the old configuration and increasing distance to the old sun Saturn (with shrinking temperatures) could be paralleled and compensated by increasing nearness to the (new) sun with growing input of its sunlight. However, that is requiring that Saturn is not losing it´s brown dwarf features too soon. As well there are many other restricting conditions.

Another opportunity is that the system Saturn-Earth (and others?) was closing in to the Sun and the orbit of Earth became similar to today´s orbit but Saturn moved away from us and the Sun later. Then it will be very hot on Earth for some time and not cold at all.

However, scientists will always ask this "biological" questions and without convincing scientific answers to this problem the Saturn hypothesis will not be taken into account by the most people. One of the reasons of the success of gradualism and slow evolution models is the fact that it seems to be more reasonable and necessary for the development of human and other life to exclude bigger catastropic events in our system - at least in the younger past.

I am fascinated by the idea that Saturn could have been our old Sun and it seems obvious to me that our solar system is composed of at least two older systems but it could have happened millions of years ago.

It finally requires computing and some math to check some opportunites but its a very hard task and requires some reliable basic data or at least realistic assumptions for the shift. A very hard task but unavoidable at some point.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Spektralscavenger » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:43 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, there´s no evidence of global temperatures dropping dramatically in the last 10,000 years, and no human folkrore states that either. Instead of -50º C or -100º C the typical temperatures might have been 50º C or more due to the electric hyperactivity. I don´t say Earth wandering chaotically (if happened) was nice but temperature wasn´t a big problem, earthquakes, volcanoes, megathunderbolts and the like were.

Also, Saturn theory tells that Earth was sort of a paradise in the polar configuration. Presumably humans were incredibly healthy and could survive years of starvation when things got real shaky. The Hopi myth says that humans "lived with ants" when enormous cataclysms struck Earth. Life in deep caves is a good idea indeed whether happened or not.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby moses » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:12 pm

Imagine the temperature outside would fall to -50 or -100 °C.You won´t survive, even if you had a warm quarter in the underground. You need to search for food but the plants are frozen and animals dying in coldness and darkness!
Bomb20

It is a question of the total heat of planet Earth. As the surface cools somewhat heat transfers from the inner Earth to the surface. The atmosphere slows heat loss. I think that your basic assumption that the Earth's surface will quickly cool to -50C needs scrutiny. And worms and bugs can feed a lot of underground creatures, that can be eaten by bigger creatures.

The Arctic has been cold a long time so the coldness goes pretty deep under the surface. Not so in the tropics. I feel that your certainty that survival would not be possible needs consideration.

Another factor is that if there was large electrical effects at the break-up then there would have been large amounts of dust produced which could have hung around the magnetic and gravitational fields of Earth for a long time, insulating the Earth considerably. We only need about 100 humans to have survived, and there is DNA evidence supporting this.

I feel that the Earth's creatures have had to survive in incredibly bad conditions many times.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Bomb20 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:03 am

Hi Mo,

I am not certain what really happened and I am open for discussions and like to get deeper insights in this topic!
Therefore I asked the questions above.

Indeed, it seems there is no extreme global drop of temperatures in the last ca 10,000 years to find. Nevertheless, I would be helpful to have a model dealing with potential cooling effects if a sun shift and planet migration occured and another model which is displaying the opposite effects by electric processes etc.

At this point one can either claim that the shift did not happen or claim that it happened together with other features. Then a temporary global warming or at least warming of specific regions seem to be unavoidable because of electric effects connected with z-pinch etc. Indeed, electric effects could have been harmful and helpful for survival at the same time.

The myths collected by many dedicated researchers seem to point to a terrible heat (compare van der Sluijs youngest TPODs) but I am not aware of any record of helpful information supporting and detailing this. Others could know a lot more about this and probably jump in.

Indeed, even a very little number of people could survive and repopulate all regions on Earth. I think that events mentioned by Spektralcavanger did reduce population down to 5% (?) according to Schaeffers research in some historical regions. However, I am not aware of an extreme "bottle neck" for DNA in the younger past. It is claimed that a volcano reduced human population near to extinction ca. 70,000 years ago but our current time scales could be very doubtful.

By the way extreme coldness or heat would surely depopulate especially regions where you can not hide in rock or underground like open plains.

I am aware that some of the following questions can not be solved here or in another thread of dicussion but I think it is necessary to address the following questions concerning the Saturn hypothesis (if they were not already addressed and I missed):
- How did the shift mechanism incl. planet migration work (an astronomic model with dates is required)?
- How long did the shift last and what kind of periods occured?
- How did climate on Earth change?
- How did the shift influence life [and Geology] on Earth?
- Why did life - and especially the human race - survive?

Finally I would like to repeat: So impressive and lovely the Saturn hypothesis looks - it needs an interdisciplinary approach which is answering many open questions in the fields of of Astronomy, Astrophysics and Geology and especially Biology. I missed the latter among the goals for the thread.
Without good evidence in all these fields it will stay the opinion of a little group and could even became a burden for other efforts of the Thunderbolts because opponents will not stop to point at weak spots in this field.

Cheers,
Bomb20

PS: Do not worry, I ilke more topics than phenomenology. ;)
Last edited by Bomb20 on Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:08 am

Earth was a paradise in polar configuration with Saturn because it was inside the lit-up plasmasphere of Saturn. The light was a pinkish magenta with peaks in the red and blue parts of the spectrum and it kept the entire world warm, even where Saturn was not in the sky. The chlorophylls have their absorbances in just such brown dwarf sunlight since green light is scarce in a brown dwarf, but due to the way they are powered by electricity, they radiate lots of blue light which is the most energetic light for chlorophyll and red light which is the most abundant. Our sun's peak in space is blue-violet, but its peak on the surface of the Earth is yellow-green--which is the light that chlorophyll does not absorb well at all. Our plant life was NOT made for our present sun at all, but for Saturn light.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:34 am

Here are some pics/illustrations on how things might have been under Saturn during the Purple Dawn era.
Attachments
planeterrella_00 Saturn's plasmasphere.jpg
Model how Saturn got its plasmasphere from cosmic electricity while in deep space as a brown dwarf star.
bd3visible3 saturn2a.jpg
Saturn in the sky during the Purple dawn
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:42 am

Siberia as it was under Saturn. The land was appreciably darker than today, but it was warm and bright enough for photosynthesis to take place without trouble. Saturn light was perfect for the chlorophylls in plants.
Attachments
StarMasterBig-Saturn.jpg
What Saturn would look to us in modern times if it were still our sun.
siberia under saturn.jpg
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby moses » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:12 am

Indeed, it seems there is no extreme global drop of temperatures in the ca last 10,000 years to find.
Bomb20

Under the Arctic is sub-tropical flora. And I reckon that it was alive 10,000 years ago. In which case it is easy to find a cold period - ie when all the ice formed.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Spektralscavenger » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:40 am

Hi everyone!

All the traditions are consistent with the Sun and Moon not always being where they are now; and the Sun is especially hard to miss. No wonder why the theory of the Solar System being as today all the time is so popular but something isn´t true just because "otherwise it´s too complicated". Most traditions imply the world was shaped recently and Earth topography used to be smooth. Perhaps the "older than the mountains" expression doesn´t mean a very long age after all!

How did climate on Earth change?
A recent picture of the day speaks of unbearable heat before our Sun came into the sky, today picture of the day speaks of unbearable coldness. Therefore, wild fluctuations.

Why did life - and especially the human race - survive?
I am not very impressed by animal life surviving a planetary shift. I am much more impressed by the survival after the Great Flood or Universal Deluge, I can´t figure out how if not thanks to suspended animation. Even underground everyone and I mean everyone would drown! Some trees are stated to be 13,000 years old. Those are survivors!

I left the history of the solar system to further research. Perhaps Earth was under Saturn and only Saturn, or Saturn was with other stars or planets (the Holy Trinity?), or Saturn was merely on a further orbit from the Sun, or...

A very interesting perspective on mythology:
http://books.google.es/books?id=1WB3g0d ... cs&f=false
http://projectavalon.net/lang/en/Dr_Pau ... g_2009.pdf

The ancients knew the location of the galactic core. Does that mean the galactic core was active in the last 20,000 years? Maybe was a core flare and not a magnetospheres clash what "broke" Saturn plasmasphere. I don´t trust the superwave theory though, I think rather than "superwaves" of radiation stressed galactic cores release lots of electric power to stars and nearby galaxies, lots of stars and gases and might undergo fission.

For a more entertaining tale:
http://books.google.es/books?id=_gc9Rex ... te&f=false
Findings of giant human skeletons are suppressed or dismissed as isolated cases of gigantism.
Many legends tell of the gods living on Earth or even breeding with humans. Even as metaphors, how that can be?
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Bomb20 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:45 am

Our sun's peak in space is blue-violet, but its peak on the surface of the Earth is yellow-green--which is the light that chlorophyll does not absorb well at all. Our plant life was NOT made for our present sun at all, but for Saturn light.


Indeed, Xuxalina, this is a strong point for a "construction" for another type of Sun! One really has to wonder about peaks in blue (420 to 450nm) and red light (640 to 660nm) , and probably about the desire for ultra-violett light too. It would make more sense if another "power station" would have developed in plants for our current Sun. Chlorophyll seems to be "sub-optimal" for its task under our sun´s current conditions. And thank your for the pictures!

If I understood correct than there was a series of catastrophes between the end of "Ice Age" (maybe a misleading term) and 4500BC. The extreme cold is connected with a very early date and the heat with a more recent one. There was obviously a number of floods, earthquakes and other catastrophes during this period of time.

I had a short look into Ino Cooks PDF.files as well but it is extremely long and I miss too often reasonings for his claims and interpretations. Admitedly, this would probably require many 1000 instead of 100´s of pages for a solid explanation. It is also confusing to see the many different interpretations of the same fact by different researcher. Cook gives very precise dates but I am often asking myself how he could know ...?

And yes, underground is a dangerous place during floods too but how about caves in rock in mountains. Hm, it seems I forgot that the face of Earth was soft and at first maybe without huge mountains after all.

PS: Thanks for the links! It will take me a while to read all.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:14 am

Here is what Saturn's plasmasphere may have looked like from space. To the person's eye, the thing would be huge, not tiny, since it would be vastly bigger than saturn. It might be 3 million miles in diameter--a lot bigger than our sun's photosphere, but nowhere as bright. It would certainly be bright enough to enable photosynthesis all over Earth even if Saturn were fixed at the Earth's north pole because Earth itself would be inside the plasmasphere.
Attachments
Saturn Nekr-antipodes.jpg
A place in Earth's southern hemisphere where saturn is not in the sky but is illuminated by the plasmasphere
Saturn's plasmasphere.jpg
Saturn's plasmasphere from space
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Spektralscavenger » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:51 am

Maybe the "older than the mountains" means that there was a time within human history with no mountains. A flat Earth is pretty odd, how could it be? Well, not so surprising in the uniform electromagnetic environment of the Saturn system or whatever was. The recent electrodynamic imbalances shaped high mountains and deep valleys. Widely speaking, the topography of a planet is related to its superficial electromagnetic balance (or imbalance).
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Bomb20 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:42 am

Some of the old legends in Mr. van der Sluijs recent TPOD indicate a massive building of mountains witnessed by human beings. Also other facts point to more recent mountain formations. So, I would not wonder if some or many montains (maybe not all) were formed only a few thousand years ago. Therefore, "older than the mountains" (to my knowledge a saying in many languages) could have another meaning than expected, as mentioned by Spektralcavenger.
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