Questioning the Ice Ages

[GaryN]

Interesting hole in the bedrock of Todd Creek, a seasonal creek that empties into the Sooke river. Depth as yet unknown as I could not see the bottom. It appears to corkscrew into the bedrock. It is at the base of a small waterfall, more like a spillway, but obviously has not filled with material that would have been expected to have washed down the creek over thousands of years. The pool that contains the pothole contains no pebbles or rocks at all, and the exit which is quite narrow has no rocks trapped in it, so either the hole has swallowed it all, or no material has ever moved down the creek. There are a number of what might be called mini-cirques along the creek bed, interspersed with deep V shaped gulleys.
The features in the creek, IMO, defy any plausible mechanical process of formation, and I'm going to do a web page about this location alone. I have put out feelers, and am now trying to set up an appointment with a member of a family of 3 generations of geologists who have worked mostly on southern Vancouver Island. I have not made direct contact yet, but have been informed he is "very opinionated", sounds like just the type of fellow I need to offer (perhaps) a reality check on my visions of extreme energy, short duration geology.

I have a few more images on Picassa.
https://plus.google.com/photos/11334575 ... 3052293025

[seasmith]

Gary,

You certainly live in a geologically interesting area, i'm jealous. As mentioned somewhere last year, i was stuck by, on (first) little trek of the far Northwest, how young the terrain seemed, compared to Appalachia, and even the US Rockies, which i've trekked quite a bit.
My question is, what do you think underlies the (geologic-scale) current seismic activity of your area ?

Here are some ST geo quotes to bat around:

The area has been known to host megathrust earthquakes in the past, the last occurring in 1700. In 1946, the Forbidden Plateau in the east of the Vancouver Island Ranges was the epicentre of an earthquake that registered 7.3 on the Richter scale, the strongest ever recorded on land in Canada.[16]
Vancouver Island was the location of the observation of the episodic tremor and slip seismic phenomenon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Island

The 1700 Cascadia earthquake was a magnitude 8.7 to 9.2 megathrust earthquake that occurred in the Cascadia subduction zone on January 26, 1700

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1700_Cascadia_earthquake


thanks, s

[GaryN]

Hi s,

..i was stuck by, on (first) little trek of the far Northwest, how young the terrain seemed,

Yes, some of it looks like it happened only yesterday, but in other areas it does look older, as though there has been extensive weathering, but I attribute the differences to the diversity of effects seen with plasma surface modification, depending on numerous variables.

My question is, what do you think underlies the (geologic-scale) current seismic activity of your area ?

Current seismic. Yes, those words belong together I think. Electrical and mechanical forces developed from the 'killing' of varying solar longitudinal magnetic fields by the dielectric properties of the rock. With sufficient energy I think even a major distorting of the lithosphere at least is possible, explaining the larger topological variations. I really need to set up a NIAMI thread to go into the details of the mental picture I am developing, even though I'm doing my best to only include mechanisms that are scientifically accepted. Just now though, I'd rather be out in the field!

[GaryN]

A good deal more impressive than the mystery hole I found locally, but intruiging, as the reason I was exploring the area is that I had heard indirectly from the illusive geologist I am hoping to meet that there was such a hole in the area, that he says runs over to the Goldstream River a good 10 miles away as the crow flies. There is no water going down the one here that I could notice, maybe it has become plugged.

The mystery of Devil's Kettle Falls

Side-by-side waterfalls send half of a river on its merry way to Lake Superior. But the other half? No one's been able to figure it out.

http://www.mnn.com/lifestyle/eco-touris ... ttle-falls
Also, as I have noted around here, there are many places wher constrictions in the river flow have not become plugged with rocks swept down river, even though the features of the Kettle Falls are supposed to be very old. I haven't found an image to confirm, but if the situation is similar to around here, the river above the falls, and not too far back from the falls, will be boulder strewn with some very large rocks present.
I don't know how close these may be to Devils Kettle falls, but not too far I'd bet.
Brule River.
http://tomsamuelson.zenfolio.com/p85250 ... F#hfc8e696
(Rather coincidentally, the street I live on is named Brule.)

[GaryN]

The pothole pictured at the top of this page turns out to be 18 feet deep, perhaps 19 in spots. I couldn't find (with a fishing line and weight) anywhere where it might have continued down, and don't know if it might have any sideways leading passage. I'll try taking a million candle power lamp next time, as the Sun never gets completely overhead in order to be able to see down there.
I did a day trip up the creek that has the pothole in it, and got about 1 kilometre before I had to start heading back. That doesn't sound very far, but the higher I went, the more rugged it became, and finding a way past obstructions like big boulders and log jams really slowed things down. Still, I have seen enough to be 100% convinced that this creek was not from glaciers or water, and had no faults, dikes, graben or any other standard geological features that I could see.
What I did find though, and my explanation of said feature, I'll have to post in a NIAMI thread, though I'm going to say it is a New Insight rather than a Mad Idea. Electro Magnetic Geomorphology!

[seasmith]

Just a wild guess from the photo, but is that a basaltic/igneous rock stream bed, with a sedimentary type cliff face on the right ?

[GaryN]

Tough to tell there s. I did find a pdf file on the Brule geology, best to search TOPOGRAPHY AND GEOLOGY OF THE. BRULE to find it. Where I am, the rock can have so many appearances that I can't tell what it is, but I suspect those changes were very rapid. Some of it may be only skin deep, its like it has been case hardened, so tough that the water flows over supposedly thousands of years have not made the slightest impression of it.
On my last creek bed hike I found a number of what I call creation events, where it is clear that the boulders are being formed deep in the creek bed, and there are boulders close by that would be classed as deep metamorphic, but were created, IMO, very close to where they now lay. The observation that most impressed me was the seeming solution to the presence of large chunks of rock that almost fill thee whole creek bed. How did they get there? Again, the answer is they were formed right there, and have never moved. This image, looking down stream, shows a large chunk with the remains of rock that was behind the chunk, which itself was originally part of a long ridge sitting in the middle of the creek.( There are similar features in various stages of formation to be found along the creek) In some places it seems the ridge was eaten away completely, and a long thin pool or deep V trench left in its place.

I thought the whiteish coating on the rocks was some biological film that dried out when the water level fell, but on closer inspection it isn't. I picked up a sample, and underneath it is a reddish-brown colour, the white is only on exposed surfaces, and I suspect is from a 'flash' of plasma. I'll see if I can get it analysed somewhere to try and determine it's chemical composition, and that of the rest of the rock.

[seasmith]

G,
On your treks, do you occasionally carry a pair of safety glasses, rock hammer, small 10x jewelers glass and maybe a cheap pocket rock-hound guide ?
Sure beats lugging them lithos back to to the lab...


http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Guide-Rock ... B005OL87ZU

[GaryN]

s,
I have only used a hammer/chisel to remove the contents of a couple of potholes just to see what is in there, and the contents, IMO, could not possibly just have fallen in and become so well packed and difficult to remove. And some of the contents are definitely still part of the bedrock, even though being completely different in colour and composition. The potholes I see now as Crystal Gardens, the contents having been formed within them from the bedrock material.
My intention with my present investigations is not really about the types of rock, but the shapes of the river and creek features, and the nature of the mechanical forces that would have been required to produce those shapes. And it doesn't add up at all in my mind, but I'm not having any luck getting a geologist to come and give his/her interpretation of how they formed. Maybe I shouldn't have sent them some of my images that show cobbles connected to/growing out of the bedrock?
The potholes are perhaps the most difficult to explain, and even the Creationists have problems with that, but then I haven't seen the Creationists include electrical and plasma storms in their research. The very evident ridges and fluting are seen around here, inclined, and looking like something has drilled into the rock.

Problem of Ridges, Flutings

A significant proof that the potholes are not in the process of formation at the present time, and that they are not worn by the abrasion of streams, is due to the presence on the walls of typical examples of little ridges, or flutings. These are often inclined at an angle to the horizontal.

From: On the Interpretation of Potholes, by Douglas E. Cox
http://www.sentex.net/~tcc/pothart.html

I put up a few more images on Picassa, some with my whacky interpretations:
https://plus.google.com/photos/11334575 ... 3052293025

[seasmith]

re your Devil's Kettle Falls

My last two posts were prompted by similar looking creek ravines, in the breaks of SW Utah.
I'm not trying to discount your theories, only to consider more of the data. No matter the working premise, it helps to discriminate sedimentary from igneous (or possibly metamorphic) materials, when appraising geologic features,
imho.
I'll stop pestering...

[GaryN]

I'll stop pestering...

No, no, keep pestering!

I had a look at the Breaks, more mind blowing stuff trying to imagine water and wind doing all that sculpting and excavating.

The size of these regions though is daunting, I don't think my old legs would last long in this type of terrain!
http://www.nps.gov/blca/photosmultimedi ... yon01a.jpg
What I'm looking for as far as electrical and plasma modified features is available on a much smaller scale just down the road from me, and it is these smaller features that I think will provide the evidence which shows they could not have been from purely mechanical forces. At the larger scale it is hard to believe the magnitude of electrical forces that would have been required, but looked at in the proper perspective, the forces carving out even the largest features are likely quite tame on the grand scale. It is only because we are so tiny and insignificant that they seem so immense.

No matter the working premise, it helps to discriminate sedimentary from igneous (or possibly metamorphic) materials, when appraising geologic features,

Sedimentary, igneous, metamorphic. Around here, I'd say the igneous and metamorphic were the sedimentary, transformed rapidly by the appropriate type of energy, which means to my way of thinking, it was a pulsed energy, in order for the dielectric effects to do the necessary conversion, whereas in the still sedimentary regions it was a much 'smoother' flow that sculpted by surface dissociation, creating all the sand and finer materials. That's how I see things, today anyway.

[GaryN]

'Grand Canyon of Greenland' discovered under ice sheet

The age of discovery isn't over yet. A colossal canyon, the longest on Earth, has just been found under Greenland's ice sheet, scientists announced Thursday in the journal Science.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/grand-ca ... 8C11034914
Never misunderestimate the power of glaciers!

[seasmith]

This is a new one on me:


Supervolcanic Ash Can Turn To Lava Miles From Eruption, MU Scientists Find

“Viscous heating” ....

...researchers at the University of Missouri have shown that the ash produced by supervolcanoes can be so hot that it has the ability to turn back into lava once it hits the ground tens of miles away from the original eruption.

The volcanic ash from this eruption has to be at least 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit to turn into lava; however, since the ash should have lost some of that heat in the air, the researchers believe viscous heating accounted for 200 to 400 degrees Fahrenheit of additional heating to turn the ash into lava.

Robert, Andrews, Ye, and Whittington’s paper was published in Geology. The National Science Foundation funded this research through a CAREER award to Whittington.

http://munews.missouri.edu/news-release ... ists-find/

[GaryN]

“Viscous heating” ....

Well, you know I'm going to say dielectric heating, the ash being a high silica content. I'll have a look for more images of such supposed viscous heating to see if there are other indicators of an alternative process. I guess I need to be able to show GHz range ion acoustic waves could produce the same results, I'll add it to my list of projects!
Microwave penetration of sandstone though seems like it may well be able to account for things like the Deccan traps. Knowing now that silicates can show igneous and metamorphic conversion by electrical forces, I don't think it beyond possibility that penetration down to 2 Km, as with the Traps, is possible. 2 Km sounds like very deep penetration, but again, on the grand scale, thats maybe only skin deep!

[mileso]

It took me a few days to read through the posts but someone back around page eight mentioned “cavitation”. This brought to mind the damage I had seen done to cast iron pipe fittings we were disposing of on a job.

What I found so remarkable was the way the metal had been eroded. It was as if worms had burrowed into the metal, leaving deep winding holes, some contained foreign material lodged in them. This was clearly not the result of chemical etching as the water that ran through these pipes had been treated (buffered) to prevent corrosion.

On a much larger scale, I witnessed the effect of cavitation on a spillway at a hydroelectric dam in Labrador. The dam being constructed of reinforced concrete poured on top of granite which had been blasted to expose virgin rock. In this case the granite that had been subjected to the cavitation effect was smoothed out as if it had been struck by blows from a ball-pean hammer. Concave flakes had been removed making the surface as smooth as the glaciated rock prior to blasting.

As I found out later, this was an emergency overflow and all this damage happen in a one time event that lasted a few days. I wish I had taken photographs.