Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:11 pm

Chronological Outline of Cardona's Saturn Theory
[I posted this at and thought I ought to post it here too.]

Phase 1:
Saturn System Formation:
Saturn formed in the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy as a Brown Dwarf Star;
it was alone in space [as far as we know so far] with a Circumstellar Disk, Bipolar Jets and an invisible Plasmasphere

Phase 2:
Numerous Saturn Flare-up cycles
Each cycle involved:
a) a Saturn Flare-up, similar to solar flares, but much more powerful; the flare-ups resulted from Saturn's plasmasphere encountering other stellar plasmaspheres, while moving from the Sagittarius Galaxy to the Milky Way;
b) a possible Rocky Planet/Satellite Ejection [possibly forming Earth, Mars, Mercury, & other Satellites, as many as one per cycle];
c) Deposition of Saturn Flare Dust, Petroleum, Water etc on Satellite Planets, i.e. on Mars, Earth, and other Saturn moons;
d) Melting of Earth’s Temperate Zone Glaciers and Filling of Oceans;
e) a Long Quiet Interim;
f) New Saturn Disk Formation, Resumption of Saturn's Bipolar Jets & New Glacier Formation on Earth.
g) Temperate Zone Glaciation occurred, again removing most of the water from the Oceans [the Bipolar Jets, also called the Polar Column, removed some of the ocean waters.]

Phase 3:
Continental Drift without subduction, due to flare-up braking Earth's rotation and Earth's crust sliding over its Moho layer [possibly part of some Flare-up cycles, with continents moving farther apart during several flare-up cycles] and possible Earth Expansion & Contraction

Phase 4:
Pre-human Saturn Flare-up cycles [possibly forming more Saturn satellites]

Phase 5:
Appearance of Humans

Phase 6:
Post-human Saturn Flare-up cycles [possibly forming Titan, etc.]

Phase 7: ~10,000 yrs ago:
Saturn's Last Flare-up: [possibly forming Venus]
One final Saturn Flare-up during the Saturn System's entry into the Solar System, which ended the prior Age of Darkness; immediately after the flare-up, the Sun, Venus, Mars and possibly some of Saturn's other smaller moons first became visible [Venus may have been ejected, or birthed, from Saturn during the flare-up; the Sun appeared at first as a small star and no other stars were visible]

Phase 8: ~10,000 - 4,500 yrs ago:
Beginning of Human Religion & Pre-history, also called Mythology, and of Civilization, with worship and imitation of Saturn

Phase 9: ~4,500 yrs ago:
Saturn System breakup:
Saturn & Jupiter clashed near the inner Asteroid Belt; Venus appeared as a comet; Venus & Mars clashed; the Moon arrived in Earth's orbit; Mars & Moon perhaps clashed; the Stars first became visible after the breakup; the Great Flood, Noah's Flood, occurred then, when Saturn's polar column to Earth was severed

Phase 10: 4,500 yrs ago to present:
Post-Saturn Stabilization:
Planets settled into their present orbits; Beginning of Recorded History
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:28 pm

* In the last post I made an error. I said re the phases of the Saturn System:
Phase 2:
Numerous Saturn Flare-up cycles
Each cycle involved:
a) a Saturn Flare-up, similar to solar flares, but much more powerful; the flare-ups resulted from Saturn's plasmasphere encountering other stellar plasmaspheres, while moving from the Sagittarius Galaxy to the Milky Way;

* Dwardu said proto-Saturn probably did not encounter other stellar plasmaspheres. It probably encountered plasma cells of differing charge, as described by Alfven. Or periodic flaring may be an intrinsic electrical property of brown dwarf stars, though I'm not sure I'm paraphrasing him correctly.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:46 pm

* Here's material from Gary Gilligan that may supplement Cardona's findings well at Gary, like John Ackerman, thinks Venus was ejected from Jupiter's Great Red Spot, rather than Saturn. Cardona didn't feel certain that Venus was ejected from Saturn, but Venus appeared on the face of Saturn after Saturn entered the Solar System 10,000 years ago.
* This is a list of ancient kings, and GG thinks they were actually planets and other celestial objects. They may hold clues to celestial events in ancient times, since parts of the list are likely in proper chronological order. Here are his idintifications of kings with planets etc. Many are not yet identified. These seem to be largely Egyptian, but the last three are Persian and Greek, I believe.
Narmer = Mars
Djer = ojbect sucking on Mars
Qa'a = object with arm raised, or plasma tail, possibly Mars
Khasekhemwy = Mars as both Horus (good) and Seth (chaos)
Huni = object that smited others in the sky
Khafre = Chephren = Mars
Neferirkare = Mars

Niuserre = object that spit venom like the Sun spits CMEs like a cobra
Mentuhotep = Mars
Amenemhet1 = Mars

Sesostris1 = Senusret = Moon
Amenemhet2-3 = Mars
Sesostris2-3 = Moon
Amenemhet4 = Mars
Ameny Intef
Kamose = Moon
Amose = Moon

Amenhotep1 = Mars
Tuthmosis1-2 = Moon
Hatshepsut = Venus comet dominated the sky ~3,200 years ago for about 22 years
Tuthmosis3 = Moon
Amenhotep2 = Mars
Tuthmosis4 = Moon
Amenhotep3 = Mars
Amenhotep4 = Akhenaten = Mars at time of Aten = Mercury ejection

Nefertiti = Venus
Smenkhkare = Venus?
Tutankhaten = Tutankhamun = Mars after Aten = Mercury ejection
Horemheb = Moon
Ramesses1 = Mars
Seti = Mercury, ejected from Mars
Ramesses2-7 = Mars

Nefertari = Venus with an enormous plumed cometary tail
Merneptah = Iron debris from Mercury's ejection from Mars
Amenmesses = blue objects like the aurora
Twosret = Venus
Ramesses8-13 = Mars
Herihor = bodies amidst the aurora
Psusennes = a starlike object seen from Thebes
(Taharqa & black pharaohs = Mercury and Venus as they slowly moved away from Earth and appeared black when transiting the Sun)
Alexander the Great = Mars?
* Here are other identifications and chapters of his online book.
Re = Ra = The Sun.
Isis = Ecliptic haze
Hathor = Earth's milky-looking rings
GKS 1: The Egyptian Dualism: Sky debris = upper Earth = twin to Earth
GKS 2: Hathor = Earth's rings [Earth and Mars had rings like Saturn does.]
GKS 3: Hatshepsut = Venus
GKS 4: Sacred chaos, sacred words
GKS 5: Tutankhamun's Pectoral = Mars
GKS 6: Re = Red Sun
GKS 7: Pharaohs were planets, not humans
GKS 8: Blue Crown = Mars rings
GKS 9: Aten = Mercury
GKS 10: A Few Basics
GKS 11: Venus, A New Planet!
GKS 12: Earth's Capture of the Moon
GKS 13: Comet Venus
GKS 14: Amun = Aurora
GKS 15: Comet Egypt
GKS 16: Cosmic catastrophe through the images
GKS 17: The Winged Disk of Mars
GKS 18: The gods were planets considered astral doubles of earthly kings
GKS 19: Egyptian Cobra Goddess Wadjet = Sun's CMEs?
GKS 20: Egyptian God Horus = Mars? (part 1)
GKS 21: Re-Horakhty (part 2)
GKS 22: Horus Behdety, The Winged Disk (part 3)
GKS 23: Re, the Red Sun and the Serpent Jet Stream
GKS 24: The Ram-Headed Amun and the Magnetic Field of Mars
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:13 pm

Gary Gilligan's Catastrophism Chronology
* This is what I've been able to piece together from his website. If his complete revised chronology is available somewhere online, feel free provide a link to it or to post it. I don't necessarily accept all or much of this at this point, but his material is fairly well reasoned, except I haven't read an obviously plausible way for Mercury to have erupted from Mars yet.
Moon arrived 1200 BC
Venus & Mars approached Earth 1000 BC
Comet Venus 900 - 40 BC
Mercury erupted from Mars between 600 & 700 BC

Moon arrived 1200 BC
I've revised my original proposed date for when earth gained its moon to approximately 1,200 BC. This coinciding with a global Dark Age of the same period, or in Egyptian times the New Kingdom (my revised chronology).

Venus & Mars approached Earth 1000 BC
Many firsts were introduced in the New Kingdom (1,000 BC revised chronology) this would include Velikovsky's Comet Venus crown and the blue crown. The reason being this was the time Venus crossed the orbit of earth en route towards its current orbit while Mars locked into a periodic geosynchronous orbit around the earth. Mars was eventually released after giving birth to its solid iron core, Mercury. The Moon, the legacy of very recent cosmic catastrophe as it became a permanent companion of earth. In short, with the New Kingdom we literally have a new order new order in the heavens - close proximity errant planets now begin to loom larger than the Sun - especially the spinning Mars, which on numerous occasions was observed taking on a blue hue with a very distinctive band of debris around its girth.

Comet Venus 900 - 40 BC
To my knowledge the first queen to wear the ‘Comet Venus’ crown was queen Tiye (image), great royal wife to Amenhotep III circa 1355 B.C. (conventional dating) One of the last was Cleopatra VII circa 40 B.C. (image below or here). As we can see this gives us a period of over thirteen hundred years. I have given the conservative figure of 900 years because ancient chronology is out... well out! The emergence of the New Kingdom should be dated to around 1000 B.C. This following the Dark Age of approximately 1200 B.C. This in turn should be ... synchronized with what Egyptologists have dubbed the Second Intermediate Period. A misleading term which really should be changed to something like 'the 2nd major Dark Age.' A time when foreign bodies ruled the heavens in the guise of the Hyksos (rouge shepherd moons). The cause of this DA was Comet Venus crossing the obit of earth to appear sunside (daytime - adorning highly luminous cometary plumes) and the warrior god king Mars beginning to lock into a geosynchronous orbit above the Trans Himalayas (thus artificially and catastrophically raising them). Subsequent to this we have the Amarna Period around the 7-8th century BC. This being a time honoured recording of the electromagnetic extraction of Mars’ core (forming the Valles Marineris) to become the planet Mercury (as per Ackerman). Initially worshiped as the Aten only (upon cooling) to eventually join the royal bloodline of celestial god kings (GKS).

Mercury erupted from Mars between 600 & 700 BC
the Aten was originally the core of Mars, or as we now call it the planet Mercury. It was literally sucked out through the Valles Marineris (sun-solar-wind-aurora-marsenormous gash still visible on the surface of mars) sometime in the 7th century BC as a result of repeated encounters with earth. This was the beginning of the end of planetary chaos. After the birth of the Aten and the Amarna period (approx. 17 years) cosmic chaos although continuing for at least another 7/800 years began to settle down allowing the planets to retreat to their present locations.
the Aten had one distinct trait that separated it from the millions of red suns before and after the Amarna period – it was shown with sunrays. They were not normal rays because they did not sweep around the circumference of the disk but protruded from the lower half only. Nevertheless, the Amarna period was the only time in Egyptian history when a ‘sun’ was depicted with rays. ... the Aten had nothing to do with the Sun! This whole epoch of approximately 17 years was a time when the combined gravitational forces of Earth and Venus sucked out the core of Mars which became the planet Mercury [the Aten]. The evidence for the genesis of Mercury is still visible today in the form of the Valles Marineris. An enormous scar on the surface of Mars with a length approximately the same diameter as Mercury. Surely this is no coincidence! Planetary scientists do actually theorise that Mercury was once the solid core of a planet - in a head-on collision the outer layers of a planet were blasted off leaving behind its core or as we call it Mercury. I would also add that Mars at some time in the past once held a magnetic field but for reasons yet to be explained, it stopped working. This is because its 'dynamo' was catastrophically sucked out to become the planet Mercury, the first 'rock' from the Sun. ... The Aten was portrayed as a large red disk with partial rays because that is exactly how Mercury appeared.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:18 am

Continental Drift in the Saturn Theory
* Cardona accepts continental drift without subduction but with sliding of the continents over the Moho layer, due to the Saturn flare halting Earth's core rotation. Continental sliding without subduction has very good evidence, because the east and west hemisphere continents fit together very well, suggesting that they were once joined together, then broke apart. The fitting together isn't conclusive by itself, but the fossils and rock types on the opposing shores also match very well, and that makes it highly probable.
* Cardona found that the last Saturn flare occurred about 10,000 BP. The flare produced a lot of detritus that fell mostly on the North Pole and formed a supercontinent there. The Africa portion was at the pole and the rest of the supercontinent extended down to near the equator. When the flare caused Earth's core to halt or slow down greatly, the outer portions of the supercontinent farther from the North Pole broke away from the Africa portion and broke into the several continents, because they were moving up and over the equator, the widest part of the Earth.
* After the Earth's core resumed normal rotation, the axis shifted, moving Africa from the pole to the equator and the other continents to their present positions.
- In this image you can see how the supercontinent looked viewed from above the north pole, just after it started breaking up, where it says 200 Mya. Then see the process unfold to the upper right, lower right, then lower left, where the other continents moved out to the equator (India was probably always connected to Asia). Afterwards the poles shifted about 90 degrees, moving Africa to the equator.
* It seems that a megalightning impact off Somalia, Africa may have initiated the breakup of the supercontinent, which explains the formation of mountain ranges and the Mid Atlantic Ridge as detailed at
* During the prior Saturn flare a similar smaller supercontinent appears to have formed and broke up, which left the East Pacific Rise, whereas the last flare left the Mid Atlantic Ridge.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:03 pm

Cardona Discusses Supercontinent
The following correspondence with Cardona is from Sep. 2-3.

LLOYD: In this image
it appears that Africa was in the center of the supercontinent.
CARDONA: According to whom? LLOYD: Do you think it was Antarctica in the center? CARDONA: That's what others think. LLOYD: And was the supercontinent at the north or south pole?
CARDONA: Neither. Earth was smaller then. LLOYD: If at the north, how did Antarctica get to the south pole? If it was at the south pole, how did proto-Saturn detritus build up a supercontinent at the south pole? Did the Earth's axis shift 180 degrees after the flare? CARDONA: See above. [It's Neither. Earth was smaller then.]

LLOYD: I wanted to share this info with TB members, because I just realized that the continents would naturally tend to break away from the central area of the supercontinent, if they were on the periphery of it and thus moving much faster, especially when the Moho layer would have gotten much hotter there and melted through the crust. > You'd said before that the Earth's axis strayed during or after [proto-Saturn] flares. How much?
CARDONA: Hard for me to say because I only have ancient man's descriptions that led me to it. More of that in Volume Five which I've just started writing.

LLOYD: But I think you said it always returned to it's normal orientation, facing proto-Saturn. Does that include after the last flare?
CARDONA: More or less—yes.

LLOYD: Jim someone said he likes the Saturn Theory, but favors Earth expansion rather than continental sliding to explain the fitting together of continents.
CARDONA: I tend to agree, as actually stated in my work. Dwardu

LLOYD: I assume you're suggesting that there was no supercontinent, if you mean the ocean basins were a result of Earth expansion, instead of continental drift. If so, was Antarctica always at the south pole?
CARDONA: I may be wrong, but I believe so.

LLOYD: I think you had said before that the detritus from proto-Saturn fell mostly on the north pole.
CARDONA: Detritus, yes, but not enough to build all of Earth's continental mass. That's not MY theory. Besides which, no, the detritus did not only fall on the north pole. Just because it came from the north polar stationary proto-Saturn does not mean that all emitted material from that source had to fall on the north pole. It's a much more complex affair since there are certain other matters to be taken into consideration, such as Earth's rotation, orbital capture, and its inherent electro-gravitational attraction. I will not even say that the detritus fell only in the northern hemisphere since I know for a fact that some of it fell in the southern one.

LLOYD: You say others think Antarctica was in the center of the supercontinent. You didn't say you do. Is that because you don't think there was a supercontinent?
CARDONA: Let's not get caught in semantics since it all depends what one actually means, or understands, by "supercontinent."

LLOYD: Have you read the website, It seems to me to explain the formation of mountain ranges etc much better than Earth expansion would. How do you explain their formation?
CARDONA: Mountain ranges have been formed in more than one manner—creep, fold, thrust, fault, volcanic, and even more than that.

LLOYD: Which of your books discuss Earth expansion?
CARDONA: Primordial Star.

LLOYD: What mechanism do you suggest for expansion? And when did it occur? During flares?
CARDONA: Oh no, I cannot explain it all concisely. That's why I write books.

LLOYD: In the interview you said the ocean basins were there for some time, as suggested by submarine canyons on continental shelves that extend to the seafloors, meaning the oceans were very shallow
CARDONA: No, it does not necessarily mean that the oceans were very shallow, but only that the land had been slightly higher. Again, there is much more to it than that, but, in a nutshell, that's more or less it.

LLOYD: Do you accept conventional dating of the ocean floors as about 200 million years near continental shores and progressively younger toward the ocean ridges? CARDONA: Despite what the best authorities on the subject say, we do not have a valid dating method at our disposal, so I'll keep mum on that subject. Thanks for your interest…. Take care. Dwardu
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:18 am

From what I understand, Saturn was a brown dwarf star and that due to its electrical nature, the plasmasphere was lit up in a bright glow mode, creating the purple dawn of creation, so it could not have been invisible. The bible, in the book of Genesis said that God made a great light for the day and a lesser light for the night. It seems that Saturn was the great light and its plasmasphere was the lesser light. Brown dwarfs of Saturn's original type were about 950K, but because of the electrical effects, its corona and plasmasphere radiated blue, ultraviolet and x-ray light along with red light. Plants utilize both red and blue light; red light, because it was most abundant and blue light because it was/is most energetic. Many LED lights have precisely this spectrum and I have a picture somewhere of a miniature plasmasphere created in a lab. The color was pinkish-purple, the very color of the LED light and the purple dawn of creation that Saturn's plasmasphere must have had. It is also said that royals crave the purple because it was the color of their "god's" so called cape or mantle, when Saturn was the sun. Also saturn must have been a lot dimmer than the sun, but from where it was in the sky, the total radiation earth recieved must have been close to the same. The earth must have been quite close to saturn to get the IR rays and red/blue light. Also, the plasmasphere must have contributed a lot of that light/heat as well.
So, what would saturn have looked like in the sky? What would its plasmasphere looked like in space? Would it be spherical or some other shape? Thanks in advance.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:32 am

* I don't think anyone has said that Saturn was invisible during the Age of Darkness except for far south of the equator. It was just not very bright, but probably brighter than our full moon. It wasn't till the Golden Age began after Saturn's last flare that Saturn became awe inspiring. The Bible may have referred to the beginning of the Golden Age. The lesser light apparently referred to the Sun, because Saturn and the Sun were the only objects visible at that time. As the Earth and Saturn got steadily closer to the Sun, the Sun became increasingly bright. The following link has discussions of the Age of Darkness:
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby StevenJay » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:08 pm

Lloyd wrote:The lesser light apparently referred to the Sun, because Saturn and the Sun were the only objects visible at that time.

Are you sure about that, Lloyd? It's my understanding that, at that time, there would have been no Earthly day-night cycle occurring yet. Seems to me that biblical reference could be from a much later era - perhaps after settling into solar orbit and accquiring our moon?
It's all about perception.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:45 pm

* In an early post of this thread Cardona said the Moon wasn't seen till the time of the Saturn System breakup probably not over 5,000 years ago. The Golden Age of Saturn started 5,000 years earlier, 10,000 years ago, when Saturn had its last flare and became brighter and more impressive. That flare is likely what the Bible meant by "Let there be light." The Sun was first seen when that flare died down. A great flood likely occurred during both events and during earlier Saturn flares, but during the breakup there doesn't seem to have been any flare reported. So the two lights at the time immediately after the "Let there be light" event would have been only Saturn and the Sun. The Sun was the lesser light because it was still far away at that time, farther than Pluto, while Saturn was very close, maybe as close as the Moon is now.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:52 am

Lloyd wrote:* I don't think anyone has said that Saturn was invisible during the Age of Darkness except for far south of the equator. It was just not very bright, but probably brighter than our full moon. It wasn't till the Golden Age began after Saturn's last flare that Saturn became awe inspiring. The Bible may have referred to the beginning of the Golden Age. The lesser light apparently referred to the Sun, because Saturn and the Sun were the only objects visible at that time. As the Earth and Saturn got steadily closer to the Sun, the Sun became increasingly bright. The following link has discussions of the Age of Darkness:

Here's some insight from two sources; both from the EU and both good. ... ther-life/
All of these puzzles are simply explained by an electric star. There is no lower limit to the size of a body that can accept electric power from the galaxy so the temperatures of smaller dwarfs will range down to levels conducive to life. The light of a red star is due to the distended anode glow of an electrically low-stressed star. The blue and ultraviolet light come from a low-energy corona. (Our Sun’s more compact red anode glow is seen briefly as the chromosphere during total solar eclipses. And the Sun is electrically stressed to the extent that bright anode “tufting” covers its surface with granulations and the corona emits higher energy ultraviolet light and x-rays as relativistic electrons strike it).

At the other extremity of size, Red Giants are a more visible and scaled-up example of what an L-type Brown Dwarf star might look like close-up. The Red Giant Betelgeuse is so huge that if it were to replace our Sun then Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars and Jupiter would be engulfed by it. Astronomers recognize that such stars could swallow planets yet their plasma envelope is so tenuous that it would not impede the planetary orbits within the star’s atmosphere. However, astronomers believe that any planet it swallowed would be gradually vaporized by intense heat from the star’s core. But the standard stellar model has to be seriously fudged to explain Red Giants, their central temperature turns out to be so low that no known nuclear process can possibly supply the observed energy output. The electric model, on the other hand, works seamlessly from Supergiant star to a planet-sized Brown Dwarf.

Since an electric star is heated externally a planet need not be destroyed by orbiting beneath its anode glow. In fact life is not only possible inside the glow of a small brown dwarf, it seems far more likely than on a planet orbiting outside a star! This is because the radiant energy arriving on a planet orbiting inside a glowing sphere is evenly distributed over the entire surface of the planet.

Radiant Shell

There are no seasons, no tropics and no ice-caps. A planet does not have to rotate, its axis can point in any direction and its orbit can be eccentric. The radiant energy received by the planet will be strongest at the blue and red ends of the spectrum. Photosynthesis relies on red light. Sky light would be a pale purple (the classical “purple dawn of creation”). L-type Brown Dwarfs have water as a dominant molecule in their spectra, along with many other biologically important molecules and elements. Its “children” would accumulate atmospheres and water would mist down. It is therefore of particular interest that most of the extra-solar planets discovered are gas giants, several times the size of Jupiter, orbiting their star extremely closely. It is our system of distantly orbiting planets that seems the odd one out. In fact it argues in favor of a galactic traffic accident between the Sun and a sub-Brown Dwarf like Jupiter or Saturn.

And this... ... tric-star/
Electric stars offer radically new ideas about life on other worlds and the search for extra-terrestrial intelligence. A galactic source of electrical energy provides more possibilities for sustaining life in the universe than the lottery of finding an Earth-like planet orbiting in a narrow ‘habitable zone’ about a bright star like the Sun. The probability of the latter occurrence is very low. But with electric stars, we can turn to the most numerous stars in the galaxy as likely incubators of life — the brown ‘dwarfs’ —which are actually red in color. They could be described as ‘cosmic plasma eggs.’ This picture is much more encouraging than conventional thinking on such dwarf stars.

Imagine giant Jupiter (or Saturn) and its moons floating independently in deep space. Outside the Sun’s dominating electrical influence, Jupiter (or Saturn) would become a dim electric star enclosed in the huge radiant red plasma shell of its ‘anode glow’ — a brown dwarf. Inside the glowing sheath is the most hospitable environment in the universe for life because the radiant energy received by each satellite is evenly distributed over its entire surface. There are no seasons, no tropics and no ice caps.

Radiant energy environment within the envelope of a brown dwarf star.

The radiant energy from the plasma cell of a brown dwarf star is strongest at the blue and red ends of the spectrum. Photosynthesis relies on red light (and blue light). L-type brown dwarfs have water as a dominant molecule in their spectra, along with many other biologically important molecules and elements. Satellites would accumulate atmospheres from the brown dwarf and water would mist down. Regardless of its spin and axial tilt, a satellite orbiting inside the sheath of a brown dwarf could experience an ideal environment for life.

It is instructive to note the icy nature of the moons of our gas giant planets. Those planets may be electrically captured brown dwarf stars. That would explain their odd axial tilts, excess heat, and remnants of expulsion disks or rings.

However, the brown dwarf ‘Garden of Eden’ comes with a caveat. Stars off the main sequence do not have the self-regulating photospheric discharge to smooth out variations in electrical power input. Consequently, brown dwarfs are subject to sudden outbursts, or ‘flaring,’ when they encounter a surge in the circuit that powers them. These flares could cause sparking to and between the satellites orbiting inside the sheath and lead to sudden extinction events, vast fallout deposits and fossilization. There is much food for new thoughts!

The problem for SETI is that no radio signals can penetrate the glowing plasma shell of such a brown dwarf star. Even the dim twinkling of other stars would be obscured. Intelligent life forms living on the satellites of a brown dwarf star would be unaware of the spectacle of the universe that we are privileged to witness. Seeing only a purple glow in their sky, they would have no cause to attempt to communicate. This may explain why SETI hears only eerie static on the galactic phone.

The light from Saturn, as well as its plasma sheath would have to be bright enough for photosynthesis to take place. Saturn alone would have to be thousands of times brighter than moonlight and both Saturn and the plasma sheath would have to have a total radiation output rivalling our present sun's for Earth to be warm and full of plant and animal life all over. Most likely the plasma sheath, above Earth's atmosphere would rival in brightness that of a magenta/purple LED light for plants, which also produce lots of red and blue light. So, places where Saturn isn't visible would still get enough light to permit photosynthesis. And green plants "spit" out green light and love red and blue light.

Another thing, a red dwarf star would look very much like an incandescent light in space. To human eyes, incandescent lights/red dwarfs would appear yellow, despite most of their light being in NIR. Brown dwarfs like Saturn would have appeared magenta, along with its plasma sheet, based on experiments I saw. If I can find the pics, I will add them here.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:24 am

Computer simulations are fun but they have no significance if the models are wrong. The lack of brown dwarf stars is expected in the electric universe model. In that model, stars are essentially a plasma discharge phenomenon. A bright star usurps almost the entire electrical power in its vicinity. Hypothetically, (in fact truly,) if Jupiter were to be removed beyond the Sun’s electrical influence it would become a more electrically active brown dwarf star. Its moons would become a small planetary system orbiting a dim star. The dull red (magenta/purple) shell, or “anode glow,” of a brown dwarf would surround most of the moons. The conditions for establishment of atmospheres and life on those satellites within the glowing shell would likely be fulfilled. Just like real estate, the prime requirement to become a star is LOCATION. A brown dwarf simply won’t shine when placed close to a bright star.

Unfortunately, astrophysicists and most plasma physicists never contemplate an electrically driven model because they assume strict electrical neutrality throughout the universe. Meanwhile the observational evidence shrieks of electric discharge effects in plasma. A few examples are: all X-ray sources; stupendously long glowing filaments and jets; radiant nebulae with no effective internal energy source; and compact pulsating radiation sources.

Also from the same article:

The north celestial “pole” was commemorated by all ancient cultures as the home of the prehistoric sun and the planetary gods. A true history of the Earth must explain these astronomical enigmas. And a true history of the Earth is necessary before we can speculate meaningfully about planet origins.

“Like a man was the sun (Saturn) when it showed itself, and its face glowed when it dried the surface of the earth…It showed itself when it was born and remained fixed in the sky like a mirror. Certainly it was not the same sun which we see, it is said in their old tales.”
- D. Goetz & S. Morley, Popol Vuh, 1972, p. 188.

From here: ... y-the-sun/

Not all stars shine brightly like the Sun. There is a discontinuity in plasma discharge phenomena that causes the bright ‘anode tufting’ seen as granulation on our own Sun. At lower power densities there is no need for ‘tufting’ and the red chromospheric ‘anode glow’ becomes dominant. That is the realm of red stars, both so-called dwarfs and giants. Both appear giant relative to the physical size of the star because their red chromospheric anode glow expands into space seeking electrons to satisfy their discharge. Brown dwarfs are like our own gas giants but leading an electrical existence independent of a bright star. They are more abundant than bright stars in the galaxy. All bodies in the universe are supplied with electrical power.

Capture of another star by the Sun is likely because orbits are changed strongly by charge exchange. Change the charge on a celestial body and its mass is changed. By simple conservation of energy, its orbit is changed in the same proportion. Entering the Sun’s circuit, the electric light goes out on a captured dwarf star and it becomes a gas giant planet in a distant orbit. It seems that electrogravitic restoring forces due to repeated passages of a strongly discharging planet (comet) through the Sun’s equatorial current sheet during capture causes the captive star to settle toward that plane.

Given this scenario we are much better placed to understand our ‘fruit salad’ of a solar system. The distant gas giant planets are captured brown dwarf stars, each bringing its entourage of minor planets (moons), some actually being born (expelled electrically from the core) in the process of charge exchange and capture. Saturn retains its ‘expulsion disk’ and is the most recent addition to the solar system. Saturn is remembered by the earliest civilizations as THE SUN! (See “Cassini’s Homecoming.” Our book, Thunderbolts of the Gods, details the global petroglyph evidence for powerful electrical effects witnessed in Saturn’s transition from star to gas giant. The strange, complex figures are accurate renditions of plasma instabilities seen only recently in the highest energy electrical experiments on Earth.

This throws into sharp relief how recently the solar system last changed. It is exactly as it appears — a blended family. The Sun is our foster parent. Looking for gradations in properties of the planets according to a retrocalculated theoretical order is futile. We must learn to appreciate the familial differences and in the process learn more about our neighborhood in the Milky Way. We don’t need to travel to study the nearest stars. Some have come to us!

Mankind has already sent robotic probes to other stars: they are Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune! They all have remnants of their expulsion disks! ... mysteries/
Like cosmic streetlights, all stars in interstellar space are connected to the galactic power lines (Birkeland current filaments). So instead of being dark and dead, independent giant planets shine as dim stars — red or brown dwarfs. And these dwarf stars are the most numerous in the galaxy.

The cross-section for electrical capture of a dwarf star by the Sun is huge, involving the plasma sheaths of both bodies. For example, the Sun’s plasma sheath is roughly 200 AU in diameter or .07% of the distance to the star system of Alpha Centauri. When stellar plasma sheaths touch the two stars ‘see’ each other electrically for the first time and an ‘anomalous’ acceleration toward the Sun (also experienced by charged spacecraft) takes the interloper in its grip. The electric light of the dwarf star is snuffed out and it becomes a gigantic comet, flaring and fragmenting to form new satellites, comets and ejecta rings before settling as a new gas giant into a solar orbit that provides electrical equilibrium.

Also: ... ric-moons/

Capture of a brown dwarf requires that the dim star accommodate to a new electrical environment within the plasma sheath of the Sun. The brown dwarf flares and ejects matter, which becomes planets, moons and smaller debris. The ‘dead’ dwarf star becomes a gas giant planet.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby nick c » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:01 am

Xuxalina Rihhia,
Great job! Thanks for compiling those Holoscience excerpts showing Wal Thornhill's view on this thread's topic. Cardona and Thornhill have had major influences on each other, in reconstructing a model of the celestial events that have had such a profound influence on our species' history. Admitedly, this is a work in progress and not the final product.
Regretably, the Holoscience site contains many hidden gems that are difficult to find by perusing the titles of each article.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:22 am

Ages of Darkness and Light
* Since there are so many messages on the forum that might be interesting, I prefer to read messages of just a few paragraphs in length most of the time. Long passages I tend to just skim through. I've read most of Thornhill's articles at holoscience, and I recall having read much of what you posted above.
* Thornhill may suppose that Saturn dimmed after entering the Sun's plasmasphere, but Cardona studies ancient myths more than Thornhill does, and he studies the physical sciences as well. And the mythic record says that Saturn was rather dark or dim before it flared (presumably on entering the heliosphere, when the present Sun first came into view as a distant star and as the only star in the sky, besides Saturn). It wasn't until the Saturn System broke up near Jupiter and the asteroid belt that Saturn dimmed, probably mainly because it was no longer near the Earth. Cardona agreed that the electrical environment is what determined Saturn's brightness and flaring, but before entering the heliosphere, it was generally not very bright, but only brightened briefly when it flared after long intervals.
* I think Cardona attributes Saturn's brightening during the Golden Age, after entering the heliosphere, to it reflecting increasing amounts of light from the Sun as it got steadily closer to the Sun. Also, the plasma column doesn't seem to have existed before the Golden Age, or it was too dim to see. Cardona shows in his book, God Star, that in ancient times plants grew very tall without modern forms of leaves, apparently competing for meager light from Saturn.
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Re: Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:56 pm

Superwave Theory
* On the "Questioning the Ice Ages" thread, Gary said:
If the geological and archaeological dates are to be believed at all, then it would seem that there have been catastrophes at around 13,000 year intervals. La V[io]lette's Superwave theory is probably the best known proposal. I'd also consider the event may be from something happening to our Sun without the galactic centre event. And I do believe we should heed the ancient Greek philosophers tales of many past and future catastrophes.

* Here's my reply.
Saturn Theory
* The Saturn Theory seems to have a lot more going for it, since it conforms to both the mythological record and to the geological record. As Cardona, Talbott and others have shown extensively via comparative mythology, our Sun wasn't our Sun until the Saturn System first entered the Solar System about 10,000 years ago. So it wasn't the Sun that caused any series of catastrophes. And the Greeks were less knowledgeable about catastrophes than the ancient Egyptians and Sumerians, so their idea of future cataclysms is likely based more on imagination. I don't know that I've heard of the Superwave theory, but these facts:
1. Thornhill's finding about Saturn having been previously a brown dwarf star and
2. Cardona's finding that brown dwarfs are known to flare, apparently more spectacularly than the Sun normally does, and
3. that in a fluctuating electrical environment through which Saturn seems to have moved somewhat in a comet-like fashion, it would have flared periodically, probably every few thousand years,
-- show that periodic catastrophes would have been caused by flares from Saturn itself, with no need for help from the galactic center, the Sun, or other influences (though there are likely to have been occasionally a few other influences).
Rock Strata Deposition before Continental Breakup and Seafloor Spreading
* Something I'd like to understand is how many rock strata were likely laid down during each Saturn flare. Seafloor spreading must have occurred mainly after most of the strata were deposited, so it must have been somewhat recent, though Cardona said in his interview that he thought seafloor spreading (continental drift) occurred during more than one of the Saturn flare events (due to the flare's electrical forces putting the brakes on Earth's core or mantle spin, which caused the crust to slide over the mantle at the Moho layer, I think). He seems to think that seafloor spreading started during one flare event, then continued during later flare events. But, if that were true, the ocean floors would be thinnest in the latest spreading zones (around ocean ridges) and thickest in the earliest zones near continental margins, whereas the seafloors seem to have about the same thickness all the way across [I think it's mainly about 3 mile-deep basalt in 3 layers.
Seafloor Spreading at 10,000 BP or 5,000 BP?
* After thinking this over now, this is what seems most plausible:
From the 10,000 BP Event (the Saturn System entering the Solar System):
1) - first, Saturn's plasmasphere encountered and bounced off of the heliosphere several times
2) <causing> Saturn flares
3) <which caused> rock strata deposition on Earth etc
4) - then, the Saturn System finally penetrated the heliosphere
5) <which caused> Earth's core and mantle to brake (stop rotating normally) <which caused> continental sliding [i.e. the continents broke off of the former supercontinent and some of the continents slid apart over the slippery Moho layer]
6) - then, the Saturn System continued on an elliptical [or spiraling] orbit toward the Sun, which brought Earth into the Golden Age
7) - then, the Saturn System broke up near Jupiter
8) and the Saturn System planets continued toward their present orbits
9) <causing> Earth's ice age
* Cardona said (2) Saturn flares caused (5) mantle braking and continental sliding, but sliding had to occur after the youngest sedimentary rock strata were deposited. That's why I modified the order of events a little.
* It's also possible that (5) may have occurred at (7), which might even be a better fit and it might mean that Jupiter caused Earth's mantle braking, which caused the continental sliding.
* There are a lot of facts that need to be incorporated properly into a comprehensive theory, and I don't have them properly ordered yet myself. It'll be fun to see them all come to order.
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