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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Electric Titan

Electric Titan

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Life on Titan?

Unread postby Osmosis » Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:06 am

Something to do with a bacterium, found in Mono Lake, California. Aresnic, instead of phosphorus, in its dna. :o :o
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Re: no Life on Titan

Unread postby Grits » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:37 pm

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Re: Life on Titan?

Unread postby HelloNiceToMeetYou » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:48 pm

Thats what they said about arsenic. Now look whos laughing :lol:
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Re: arsenic organisms created in a lab?

Unread postby Grits » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:57 pm

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Re: Life on Titan?

Unread postby Aveo9 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:37 am

"If opposite poles attracted each other, they would be together in the middle of a magnet instead of at its ends"
-- Walter Russell
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Re: Life on Titan?

Unread postby seasmith » Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:05 pm

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Re: Life on Titan?

Unread postby Grits » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:49 pm

Last edited by davesmith_au on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Amended title to reflect the thread and remove unnecessary offensiveness - DS.
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Re: Life on Titan?

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:16 am

Am I missing something, or didn't this whole issue begin with their ascertation that hydrogen is 'disappearing' into the moon, and a lack of 'credible' mechanisms for this to occur, according to mainstreamist vews?

I surmise that hydrogen 'disappears' into Earth by bonding with oxygen that is created by our biosphere and accounts for the abundant water we have on this world. What element exists on Titan that could bind with hydrogen? Doesn't it make more sense to bear in mind that the hydrogen that is arriving at the Titan atmosphere is ionized (just as it is on Earth and everywhere else in the solar system), and therefore we should be looking for a chemical bonding mechanism to accound for the hydrogen disappearance? :?

It seems to me that everyone is jumping on a roller coaster of speculation here based upon what they want to see, rather than opening themselves up to less speculative possibilities. :roll:
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Re: Life on Titan?

Unread postby jjohnson » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:16 pm

Acetylene CH is, according to Wiki's article on the subject, not a very stable molecule.

On Earth it has to be created, using an arc jet or in a petrochemical refinery, typically. As a fuel, it does well when combined with oxygen in a welding torch. I cannot guess a plausible reason why acetylene might be disappearing on Titan, but then, I can't guess what process on Titan would create acetylene in the first place. Maybe the "river valleys" really are Lichtenberg figures from electric discharges, which might provide the energy for chemical processe that could result in a variety of hydrocarbon compounds, including acetylene.

The scientists had earlier predicted that sunlight on Titan's upper atmosphere could be creating acetylene, but I have not read how much acetylene, if any, has been verified spectroscopically in the atmosphere by the Cassini spacecraft.

If the UV light level is high enough at Titan, it could ionize hydrogen molecules which in turn might react with other carbon compounds to create acetylene, but does it? I don't know, so I'm stumped even before the loss of hydrogen question (from the supposed acetylene) comes up. :?

Titan is cold. Natural chemical reactions at the surface would proceed rather more slowly, I'm thinking, without help. Being in the vicinity of the Jovian electrodynamic environment might be able to speed things up a bit. We do not really know enough about life and how readily it forms in environments outside ours, however extreme or benign they might appear to us. Tube worms living in the dark around "black smoker" seawater vents, living on sulfur dissolved in water at high pressure and temperature, wouldn't have been anybody's first guess at a viable form of life on our planet at mid-20th century. Until we can go toTitan and see for ourselves, it's a crapshoot and we just have to realize that it's speculative and hypothetical. Nothing wrong with that - the idea factory isn't supposed to run dry, but it does get sharpened up a bit when you can look at it in your gloves, and poke it and smell it.

I thought that the story on the bacteria from Mono Lake was intriguing, and it is relevant to any story about life and its possibility in other, unfamiliar environments, including this discussion of Titan's chemistry. I enjoyed the NPR interview with the lady scientist who handled the investigation, and the "Through The Wormhole" story narrated by Morgan Freeman which included that story as part of a larger story on "how did life get started on Earth?" Those writers sure trotted that one out fast!

I disagree with Grits's observation that it "This stinks like a PR stunt to me..." other than any press release and interview could be construed as a "stunt" to keep people informed and interested in what sorts of things science and scientists are doing with their money. Let's use common sense and tone down the phrases like "foolish media whores", if you please. That's not productive in any adult sort of way. I find the adaptability of a bacterium living in what to us would be an extremely toxic environment, by counteracting the usual toxic effects by modifying and adapting its body chemistry, to be a good sign that life is unlikely to be restricted to planets with about 1 gee and near the triple point of water and with an oxygen and carbon cycle in (our) Goldilocks Zone.

I think your idea, Aveo9, that if cellular life were found on Titan, it might be more plant-like, to have a lot of merit. If high-energy-density redox chemistry is not prevalent, what could successfully operate at a glacial pace in a low energy environment? Stuff like algae and mushrooms. A water-based chemistry on a frozen planet isn't much of a starter, so however life adapted, it would have to go with an energy balance that would let it flourish in a different environment than ours. How would things evolve to include predation, or would they? Predation is a shortcut to obtain already-gathered and processed energy in concentrated and usable form, so it's sort of a natural branch? path? of evolution. Plant on plant predation is not uncommon here. It might work on Titan, too! First, though, let there be plants!

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Re: Electric Titan

Unread postby nick c » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:42 pm

This thread is now a composite of three threads dealing with the subject of Titan:

"Titan's Temporary Magnetic Field"
"Titan's hidden ocean"
"Life on Titan?"
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Titan's Hydrocarbon Sand Dunes

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:07 pm

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Likely subsurface oceans on Titan

Unread postby tholden » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:56 am

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2901717/posts

Somebody else might want to post this on one of the other sections of the forum, again I've had one too many posts pulled on the other sections to want to bother.
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Re: Electric Titan

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:27 am

Liquid Titan?
* It would be interesting if Titan turns out to be fairly liquid, to account for its apparent periodic slight changing of shape. That would suggest that it hasn't cooled down completely yet after Saturn's last flare 10,000 years ago, when the Saturn system apparently entered the Solar System.
* Here's a good video of the view from the probe that settled on Saturn in 2005: . It seems to descend over hilly, rocky terrain. Toward the end, however, when it lands, there are said to be rock-like objects that are actually water ice and possibly pebbles of methane or hydrocarbons. The view seems to blur a bit soon after the landing, which is said to be due to heat from the landing vaporizing some of the methane or hydrocarbons.
* Anyway, it seems to confirm that there is water and or hydrocarbons on Titan. The shadow of the parachute is also seen after the landing. It looks like the camera only faced one direction upon landing. It would have been nice to have a wider angle view. But it's still rather good.
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'Mysterious' Features on Titan

Unread postby Mr_Majestic » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:55 am

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Re: 'Mysterious' Features on Titan

Unread postby viscount aero » Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:57 pm

Titan's primary feature is its thick atmosphere. As a scientist I would look to that structure foremost as a causal agent behind surface morphology. This includes precipitation, wind, and electrical storms. I would not attribute everything to being caused by electrical discharges. Titan's surface is virtually unknown despite penetrating radar imagery.
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