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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby webolife » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:01 pm

Say FR09, I discussed cavitation earlier, and it definitely has good potential for carving out depressions in rocky or other hard surfaces, as documented widely. The question in the Potholes area in Washington is whether cavitation is able to explain the way the potholes are often over arched at the rim with less dense and more brittle vesicular part of the basalt while lower portions of the pits, made of the denser columnar part of the basalt flow, are often more hollowed out. I can't see cavitation doing this, at least not without the aid of the lower layers being in a not-completely-cooled state, and therefore more reactive to the water flow... There is a neat little hike over by Deep Lake that takes you right by those pictured Potholes, which I'd love to take you on. Went with JimJ and Dotini last year to a coulee area just southwest of there to visit the Blue Lake Rhino mold.

Ya think Jay three has space for three? PM us both about your availability.
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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:12 pm

* Web, what do you make of these potholes below in Canyonlands Natl Park, Utah? Is that sandstone? What's your best guess about how they formed? And can you give us your reasoning?

Image

* I see at this next link that there are a lot of other potholes in the park, but the rest may not be as interesting as the ones above.
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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby webolife » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:33 pm

They are uncannily similar at first glance to the potholes [referred to as Rock Basins in your other pic] of the Northwest Scabland region. Even the steep sided mesas look like the sides of Washington's coulee system. I would be hard-pressed to deny that these areas were both caused by the action of floodwater currents, including cavitation. As I stated to Jaythree in an earlier communication, cavitation plus hot explosive action must have worked together in the formation of the eastern Washington Potholes. I do not believe cavitation alone can account for why the less durable material at the rim of the basalt plateaus is often left, while the harder denser columnar basalt below has been undercut from below that vesicular material. In the Canyonlands area, I still claim floodwater currents as the principle agent, with cavitation; but in this case it is apparent that the rim material is of more durable quality than the underlying sandstone, and underlying hot basalt is not an issue, so cavitation is all that is required.
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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:05 am

What is Best Source on Cavitation?
* Web, do you know of any website that has a good explanation of cavitation plus references? I found some creationist material on it at the following 3 sites. But they don't seem to provide enough details to understand how cavitation works exactly.
Cavitation Explosively Erodes Evolution

Chapter 23: Aren’t Millions of Years Required for Geological Processes?

Answers to my Evolutionist Friends, Geology

Hydroplate Theory Errors
* I think it's the first one above that mentions the ideas of the hydroplate theory without using the word hydroplate, as far as I could tell. I don't consider that theory realistic. Do you? It's based on the Biblical reference to "the fountains of the great deep", which creationists tend to interpret as referring to sources of flood water within the Earth. But the ancients almost certainly did not mean that, when they talked about the great deep. They were referring to the sky, which they called the ocean and the great deep. Cardona said in my interview with him that Saturn appeared to float on an ocean, because there was a water-like looking substance surrounding it. Creationists are missing out on the advantages of comparative mythology, which makes such findings possible. By looking at any myth in isolation, such as the Biblical version, they fail to see how other worldwide myths relate to it.
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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby webolife » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:24 am

Lloyd,
I don't consider myself to be an expert comparative mythologian. I'm not a fan of Cardona's view of the great deep being the sky, since the word used for the atmosphere [the firmament, or waters above the firmament] is different: "shamayim" [the place of the high waters], versus the "waters below the firmament." but I keep trying to find some thread of rationality in it, if for no other reasons than that I respect you.

I tend to prefer this more direct view of the "great deep fountains":
1. Once there was a single landmass.
2. Rifts opened in that landmass from which upwelled or spirted lava eruptions in several directions across the face of that land.
3. As the land split apart, ocean waters filled in the gaps.
4. Now those same lava eruptions are found in the center of those ocean gaps along the mid-ocean ridges.
5. The same fountains which once came from deep below the land mass now come from deep below the ocean surface.
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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby webolife » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:51 pm

I'm interested in the hydroplate concept, but would consider it speculative... what we do know about terrestrial water is that enough of it is expelled in volcanic eruptions to correlate the amount presumed expelled by all known volcanics [whether extinct ,dormant or active] to the amount water in today's oceans. Whether or not that water once comprised [or still is part of] a layer [associated with the Moho discontinuity perhaps?] is anyone's guess. In terms of earth history [under any model] volcanics are considered to be a relatively "recent" geologic process, suggesting that the oceans are also a recent formation. What "recent" means differs of course between the catastrophists and the uniformitarians.
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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:21 am

Shamayim
* Web, it seems that shamayim refers to the Saturn Configuration.
* I found this book online about shamayim from The Baltimore Literary - 1839 - at . I'm paraphrasing below.
- Page 634 (534).

- Page 635 (535).

* A little later the author shows that the Bible says birds flew in the shamayim, meaning the atmosphere.
* So this shows that shamayim means fire and two waters, but waters must mean fluids, or somewhat tempestuous fluids. It seems to me that fire between the two waters would describe the polar plasma column, or the former skies full of lightning and chaos effects.
* This article says

Image
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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby Anaconda » Fri May 11, 2012 9:44 am

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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby Lloyd » Sat May 12, 2012 9:14 am

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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu May 17, 2012 4:50 am

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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu May 17, 2012 5:26 am

Electrical Erosion
* This image on the other hand from a TPOD from July 2011, called Balanced Water, showing channels on ridge tops on the flanks of a mountain near Palisades, CO, surely depicts electrical erosion.
Image
* Two of the channels run down (probably up actually) along ridge tops and the others run normally down valleys. The channels all seem to be about the same depth, so I wonder if it means the valley channels were also eroded electrically.
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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby starbiter » Thu May 17, 2012 5:52 am

The tops of the ridges in the last post are where people walk. It causes erosion. Where there are no people the tops of ridges don't look like the picture above.

I drove by this area 4 years ago and thought zapping. It's a slow process of learning.

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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu May 17, 2012 7:06 am

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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby starbiter » Thu May 17, 2012 8:04 am

The beige circular area in the center of the map below is surrounded by a 400 mile wide circle of basalt. The area West of the Grand Canyon is part of the circle. I picture a 400 mile wide fire tornado of molten, red hot dust as described in legend and myth. The dust, sand, gravel, rocks, and boulders fell from the sky red hot mingled with the river of fire. The descriptions from the Chicago fire are similar.

http://g.co/maps/t3ts5

This process could also heat the subsurface causing lava vents and volcanoes. The whole process would of course be electrical. The 400 mile ring might be a diocotron instability. Venus or Mars could have been above the four corners area.

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Re: Earth's Surface Formed Recently

Unread postby webolife » Thu May 17, 2012 4:18 pm

Lloyd,
Funny thing about Hebrew. There are barely more than maybe 2800 root words in the entire ancient Hebrew lexicon, and some of the root meanings must be derived from just one or two alphabet characters. Not being a Hebrew scholar myself [although my son is], I find the approach that best serves my understanding is to look at the literal root meanings, and how they are applied in a variety of contexts. Thus "rakia" for example is used to indicate "brass" in one place, and a "shield" in another, so here in Genesis 1, "rakia" describes what I believe to be the FUNCTION rather than the appearance of the atmosphere, the function of shielding! This could apply in a variety of ways, most of which would have not been visible to the ancient Hebrews: UV [the ozone layer], plasmic particles [the magnetosphere], x-rays, and meteors are all thwarted by respective atmospheric layers. Meteors [heb. "matar"] were undoubtedly visible and may have been understood in terms of your "fire" of shamayim, but I favor a different interpretation of that root, not "shin" but "shem" which means chief, or of high position.
The recent earth history we are trying to ferret out in this thread would have involved descriptions of a time when the matar fell from the shamayim through the arrubah [windows] or a broken atmospheric structure. I see that as being caused by the breaking up of the fountains of the deep with the resultant nucleation of the hitherto relatively pristine atmosphere, but that's for another post sometime.

Another thought on shamayim: Shamayim refers at the fundamental level to our atmosphere, but because it is the window to outer space, takes on that second layer of meaning. A third layer of meaning derives from the grandness of the celestial "heavens" in the use of the word to represent the yet greater extension of the spiritual realm. Now, when we read that the sun, moon and stars, but also the birds are all in the shamayim, that is precisely how we see it today! These things are all "in the sky", "seen through the atmospheric window" or what have you... what's more, the phrase used is "the face of the shamayim", which literally translates as the "open sky" -- this is another topic relevant perhaps to this thread, but I take this to mean that the atmosphere prior to this mention of the sun, moon and stars was not open or "clear" enough to be able to see the forms of sun, moon and stars, but an event changed this allowing the astronomical objects to be emplaced from the viewpoint of an earthbound observer. This is no more inaccurate than saying that the sun rises or sets, and I'm sure these terms are frequently used by the most brilliant of scientists simply for the common vernacular.
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