Magnetism & electro-magnetism

[dusthurricane]

Magnetic lines cut through a conductor shifting the magnetic electrons of the conductor as the lines move. It is the lines of force alone causing the electrons to shift. The actual particles which traverse the lines are not being utilized.
Magnets a quadpole systems - not di-pole. Magnetic force lines are 3d tornadoes in appearance. We just use the shell of the energy to nudge our electronic systems.

[Michael Mozina]

Magnetic lines cut through a conductor shifting the magnetic electrons of the conductor as the lines move.

FYI, the electrons are "electromagnetic" in nature, not just 'magnetic'. Their movement CREATES magnetic fields, but the particle itself is electrically CHARGED .

It is the lines of force alone causing the electrons to shift.

It's the MOVEMENT of the field (flux change) that induces current inside a conductor, IOW 'causing the electrons to shift".

The actual particles which traverse the lines are not being utilized.

I'm not sure what that sentence means to you. The actually "particles" of magnetic lines are 'photons'. The actually PARTICLES that are induced in solids are electrons. In plasma both types of particles are influence by "flux changes".

Magnets a quadpole systems - not di-pole. Magnetic force lines are 3d tornadoes in appearance. We just use the shell of the energy to nudge our electronic systems.

Electrons actually do flow through the system. It's more than magnetism, it's ELECTROmagnetism. The movement of the charged particle (electron or ion) will GENERATE a magnetic field. Likewise a changing magnetic field will cause a charged particle to change course. They are related phenomenon.

[Anaconda]

Michael Mozina:

I agree with the proposition that so-called "magnetic reconnection" is, in actuality, the electromagnetic Double Layer and your description, here, is appropriate. I've read your battles with "reconnection" subscribers at various forums and your arguments are solid. Sadly, in my opinion, they have no interest in honest intellectual discussion. Their only goal is to maintain the status quo. A couple of those interlocutors are closer to being intellectually honest, but when they are in the 'clinch', again, in my opinion, you see they have no interest to follow where the evidence leads.

But where I do have a question is when you claim magnetic fields consist of photons.

What evidence do you have for that proposition?

[Michael Mozina]

Michael Mozina:

I agree with the proposition that so-called "magnetic reconnection" is, in actuality, the electromagnetic Double Layer and your description, here, is appropriate. I've read your battles with "reconnection" subscribers at various forums and your arguments are solid. Sadly, in my opinion, they have no interest in honest intellectual discussion. Their only goal is to maintain the status quo. A couple of those interlocutors are closer to being intellectually honest, but when they are in the 'clinch', again, in my opinion, you see they have no interest to follow where the evidence leads.

Thanks. I agree that the EU haters are not interested in intellectually honest discussions. Most of them haven't even bothered to read a plasma physics textbook. Oh well.

I'm optimistic perhaps, but IMO most "scientists" aren't haters. Most of them just don't know much about EU/PC theory yet.

But where I do have a question is when you claim magnetic fields consist of photons.

What evidence do you have for that proposition?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_carrier

Photons (virtual photons) have long been thought to be the carrier particle of the EM field.

[dusthurricane]

Michael Mozina - You offer FYI - the information you submit is second hand - i stated ' a magnetic elecron ' making it clear that an electron is magnetic (electro- magnet ) yet you feel the need to educate me and rephrase it. In fact all that which you submit here comes accross condecending at the least and at worse an attempt to over embellish scientific gibba gabba. My life long study of electronics/physics , has afforded me all the knowledge i require in respect of electron / atomic functionality thank you and my life study of radio electronics even more so when pertaining to electro-magnetic aspects of science. Which leads me to your point - The actually "particles" of magnetic lines are 'photons'. Gramatically erroneous in the first. In the second - magnetic lines are photons - oh lets turn the lights of and enjoy the light show yeah. Microwave ovens have powerful magnets inside the magnetron - that should look cool.come on. Please do not attemp to educate me. Though your meaning to respond is acceptable.

[dusthurricane]

Michael - Photons (virtual photons) have long been thought to be the carrier particle of the EM field.
It has long been thought that a big bang happend. I do not conform to convention - mathematics - though my life study into electronics has inevitabley carried me via mathematics as a bridge to grasp the relationships. I have all the conventional knowledge which you refer to. Modern science takes mathematics far too seriously to really discover true cosmic mechanics. I have also studied opto-electronics - covering chemical lasers/ semiconductor laser etc... and i think you may be going down the wrong route in respect of plasma physics problem solving abilities.

[dusthurricane]

Magnetic particles are infact related to our mysterious dark matter. As it shall be seen - not virtual photons. I was not going to elaborate any further on this discussion but....Current particle physics is a mess. Trying to find this and that particle - forget it - fractal mechanics are part of the story so digging deeper will only show more variety of particle. If we build a house on mud how long will the house last. Mathematics is the mud. Over complicate matters and you get tangled. My model follows basic physical fundamental principles - simple.

[Anaconda]

Fractals are important.

At this point, I don't subscribe to magnetic fields consisting of photons or virtual photons.

To my way of thinking, the magnetic field is a partial evidence of the aether. Charged particles, plasma, for some reason unknown to me, interact with the aether. The electric field also is an interaction with the aether, but it is less clear to me how that would work. That's not a full explanation, just a quick thought.

Although, that is my starting point in terms of evidence for the existence of a 'medium'. Moving charge activates the aether in the form of a magnetic field. An electric field can exist without particle movement. Perhaps, it is the electric, or Coulomb force of charged particles, when in motion that initiates a magnetic field.

Fractals are important because the elemental force of electromagnetism is scale-independent.

Fractals may have an impact on aether, if the aether, in fact, exists.

It may be possible via electromagnetic, high energy interactions to induce aether to form protons and electrons.

Some readers, here, may be aware of the hypothesis that matter is a form of stable vortex. But a vortex that was originally "ginned-up" from the aether medium.

For purposes of clear communication, it would seem useful to not assume readers know what you are asserting when a personal analysis & interpretation differs from the conventions of this forum (yes, I know that I'm running afoul my own advice).

Not that having a personal analysis & interpretation is wrong, mind you, just that unless fully explained, other commenters may not know what you mean or what you are asserting.

[Michael Mozina]

Michael Mozina - You offer FYI - the information you submit is second hand - i stated ' a magnetic elecron ' making it clear that an electron is magnetic (electro- magnet ) yet you feel the need to educate me and rephrase it. In fact all that which you submit here comes accross condecending at the least and at worse an attempt to over embellish scientific gibba gabba.

Well, that certainly wasn't my intent, but if you say so.

My life long study of electronics/physics , has afforded me all the knowledge i require in respect of electron / atomic functionality thank you and my life study of radio electronics even more so when pertaining to electro-magnetic aspects of science. Which leads me to your point - The actually "particles" of magnetic lines are 'photons'. Gramatically erroneous in the first. In the second - magnetic lines are photons - oh lets turn the lights of and enjoy the light show yeah. Microwave ovens have powerful magnets inside the magnetron - that should look cool.come on. Please do not attemp to educate me. Though your meaning to respond is acceptable.

Did you just wake up grumpy or what?

What exactly are you offering as an alternative? Since you don't want me to educate you, perhaps you could explain WHY you disagree with the idea the photons are the carrier particle of the EM field and what you are proposing as an alternative?

[Michael Mozina]

Fractals are important.

At this point, I don't subscribe to magnetic fields consisting of photons or virtual photons.

To my way of thinking, the magnetic field is a partial evidence of the aether. Charged particles, plasma, for some reason unknown to me, interact with the aether. The electric field also is an interaction with the aether, but it is less clear to me how that would work. That's not a full explanation, just a quick thought.

You might try thinking of the photon field arrangement of the magnetic field *AS* the "aether" that you're looking for and describing. Plasma does in fact interact with that existing photon field according to standard theory. Keep in mind that while photons are thought to be massless, they do carry particle kinetic energy. The photon field arrangement could be viewed as a "type" of moving aether.

[dusthurricane]

Michael, transpiring this world gives me good reason to be grumpy. I woke up tomorrow grumpy, but today i am optimistic. All i offer is a non-mathematic, more logical standpoint. Forget conventional methods of filtering,
such as mathematics. The cosmos is emotion far beyond a single collection of human neuron interactions.
Mathematic filters out the emotion and creates a delusion of solution.
That is what i offer in terms of practice.

Plasma, is just an energy level beyond gaseous - atomic hyper vibration.
All energy is the product of a magnetic origin. All matter is the product of 'early hydrogen' conversion.
Early hydrogen being the base periodic element - not hydrogen.

I mild change in direction -
i am compiling a 3d presentation of a solar death.

The waterworld sky turns from blue to green.
The plant life appears to shiver, in the absence of wind.
Lighning storms invert toward space, some sparks reaching the moon.
Tornados curl up into each other without reaching the ground - in their thousands.
A horrific metallic clanging / banging reverberating noise comes from the moons direction.....
Sea level falls dramatically then rises dramatically.

Over 100 years, things deteriorate. Voilent jults cause the oceans to fly out into space and splash
in slow motion off the moon.
Volcanic activity , coming in severe spurts around the globe.

The banging becomes even louder and the moon bounces between a distant point and then comes
very close to earth then back out again. Local explosions in the night sky.... deary deary me.
And we all carry on as animals do, and we all take it for granted with each passing sleep.