nick c wrote:I am not sure what you are stating here?
nick c wrote:Of course, skepticism is a good thing, but the fact that it is stone and not bone in no way implies fraud.
nick c wrote:Fossilization takes many forms, and one of the common forms would involve the replacement of bone with minerals which form into stone.
nick c wrote:The website mentioned that the find was explained as a prehistoric mining accident, that is, a shaft was dug into the ground as humans mined for minerals, and at some point there was an accident burying humans whose remains became fossilized in a pre human strata.
Pictured here is the heavy equipment operator who first unearthed this remarkable fine of human bones
"Marwitt concluded that the bones were unquestionably intrusive burials, probably only hundreds of years old."
"Although we could not do any invasive work, we found, as others before us had, that the bones were rather were light-weight and largely modern appearing human bones, except for the green staining."
Believe what you will.StalkingGoogle wrote:I've yet to see the case made for any kind of "fossilization", so I conclude every "fossil" is a fraud. This includes "petrified wood" (which are obviously fulgurites and were never wood), "fossil" bones and so on. Until such time as a reproducible method of fossilization of such material is found, I won't waver from my conviction that they're all hoaxes.
nick c wrote:Believe what you will.
The Moab Man (also called "Malachite man") is a controversial find of around ten human skeletons found after bulldozing in a mine whose rock dated to the Early Cretaceous period, about 140 Ma. The discovery was made in 1971 by Lin Ottinger in the Keystone Azurite Mine near Moab, Utah and has been used by creationists as an argument for humans coexisting with dinosaurs. John Marwitt, an archaeologist and the Field Director for the Utah Archaeological Survey, examined the fossils and concluded that the fossils were probably only hundreds of years old, the result of burials of Native Americans.[1] ... Later examination of the "Moab Man" skeletons indicate that they are unfossilized, and have been carbon dated to between 210 and 1450 years old (Berger and Protsch, 1989; Coulam and Schroedl, 1995)[1]
Fossil ring has a turquoise stone on an adjustable silver brass band. Stone is fossilized coral from the Caribbean Sea.
Vintage bright turquoise fossil stone beads!
Fossil stone is unique to Taiwan and is a dense limestone containing microscopic marine fossils. Because of the nature of this material, no two beads are alike and the patterns and colorations are unique to each bead.
... An almost unbelievable piece of evidence remains for our contention that Earth has been visited by catastrophes that reshaped its continents and, perhaps, opened the Atlantic Ocean basin within the memory of human beings on this planet. The Scandinavian Peninsula may be the fossilized vortex of a helical plasma beam that engulfed Siberia, Finland, Norway, Sweden and other locations in a cloud of electric fire powerful enough to change the world.
- In a previous Picture of the Day article, polar vortices on Mars were presumed to be the remains of plasma beams that did nearly identical damage to the Red Planet. The northern latitudes were simply wiped away, leaving nothing but a blasted desolation many kilometers below the mean elevation of the planet. A side-by-side comparison of Scandinavia and the North Pole on Mars is revelatory.
A giant lake-filled caldera in Mongolia could indicate electric arc machining on a massive scale.
... When Bob Ballard explored the bottom of the Black Sea, a semi-enclosed lake, he was surprised to find little sediments and even more surprised to find evidence for an inundated civilization. Similarly, Uvs Nuur is free of deep sediments, although it is supposed to be a remnant from a vast inland ocean that covered most of Central Asia.
- Rather than being formed by melting glaciers and 12,000 years of time, it seems possible that the entire Mongolian lake complex, stretching for a thousand kilometers across Asia, is the result of gigantic electrical discharges from space.
- Electrical theorists have postulated unstable planetary orbits in the recent past, causing periods of intense plasma interactions. When lightning bolts with energies in the billions of watts strike the Earth, rocks are vaporized and blasted into space, leaving pyramidal mountains and deep, wide holes in the strata. A signature of that activity would be lack of debris covering the surrounding landscape, and smooth valley floors. The excised material would have been removed in a way that is similar to plasma surface cleaning.
- Other Pictures of the Day articles have described events on Mars that carved out Arabia Terra, Valles Marineris and other structures. Now we ask once again whether major features on Earth, including the below-sea-level lakes of Asia, were cut by cosmic thunderbolts.
The most important problem with the theory of plate tectonics is that the power required to move continental landmasses around has not been adequately explained. Thermal convection is said to circulate heat energy from the Earth's interior, but there has been no process developed for how the spreading began. Why did it take almost 2.5 billion years for the crust to begin cracking and melting?
Some of the world's most unusual geography can be found across North Africa. Could it have been created by massive electric discharges in the recent past?
... One of the more surprising aspects of the Jebel Uweinat uplift region, in which Jebel Arkenu can be found, is how closely it resembles the Western Desert in the United States. One example of that similarity is Shiprock, New Mexico.
... If the mesas, gullies, pillars, spikes, and ridges have all been exposed to wind and rain for millions of years, why are they still so sharp, steep and well-defined?
... Jebel Arkenu itself is notable for its spiral-shaped interior. There are no known natural forces other than spinning electric vortices that can excavate spiral forms with uplifted central peaks. Many of those are found on the Moon and others have been observed on Mars. Since the primary thesis put forward by Electric Universe adherents is that a cataclysmic encounter with some other electrically charged body took place less than 10,000 years ago, or perhaps sooner, then the "fresh" appearance and lack of erosion is explainable.
Lloyd wrote:* They don't deny that the fossils are real. Instead, they date them as young.
Lloyd wrote:* A net search turns up a number of "turquoise fossils" and "malachite fossils". Here are two quotes from two different websites that sell them.
Stalking said: In any case, until some mechanism for how bones (or anything) could turn into turquoise, I'll continue to conclude that turquoise (and malachite) "fossils" are fake.
Lloyd wrote:Should we be impressed by your conclusions?
You said: The geologic story here [near Vantage in central Washington] is of lava flows interbedded frequently with sediment bearing overflows of ocean flooding. These sedimentary inter-layers range from gravels to sands, clays, and the above mentioned diatomaceous beds.
Miocene nonmarine rocks (Late Miocene) [Miocene = 10 to 25 million years ago]
- Poorly to moderately consolidated tuffaceous sandstone, conglomerate, siltstone, and claystone in western Washington. Chiefly clay and shale with minor sand, gravel, and diatomaceous earth near Spokane. Includes diatomite beds near Yakima and Quincy, and some marine beds in Western Washington. covers approximately 7.9 % of this area
- Lithology: sandstone; siltstone; claystone; conglomerate; shale; unconsolidated deposit; tuff [ash]
Miocene volcanic rocks (Middle Miocene)
- Dark-gray to black, dense aphanitic basalt flows; commonly columnar jointed, less commonly irregularly and platy jointed; some flows vesicular, grading to scoriaceous; includes minor pillow lava, palagonite beds, and interbedded soil profiles and sedimentary beds; contains diatomite beds locally. Maximum thickness in south-central Washington may be in excess of 10,000 feet; much thinner in western Washington, where flows are mostly associated with marine sedimentary rocks. Includes acidic and intermediate volcanic rocks in northern Cascade Mountains. covers approximately 571 % of this area
- Lithology: tholeiite; andesite; dacite; rhyolite; sandstone; siltstone; conglomerate
Glaciolacustrine deposits (Pleistocene) [= 10 thousand to 2 million years ago]
- Fine-grained sand and silt, well-stratified, with some gravel, clay, and diatomaceous earth. Contains clastic dikes in Walla Walla area. covers approximately 68 % of this area
- Lithology: glaciolacustrine; alluvium; volcanic ash
RHINOMORPHIC LACUNAE, Mel Acheson - Long ago, a flood of molten basalt spread over eastern Washington State and down the Columbia River valley to the sea. Later, the river cut a new channel (or flowed into a new channel), resulting in today's Columbia River Gorge, with high lava cliffs on each side. - In one of those cliffs, a group of geologists discovered a cavity with bones at the bottom. The bones, they found, were those of an extinct species of rhinoceros. It was then they realized the cavity bore the shape of that rhino. The flooding basalt had overrun the rhino and had solidified around its body. The body had decayed, leaving the bones, and erosion later had exposed the cavity. - The moral of this story is that you shouldn't leave the rhinoceroses of assumption to graze in the meadow of the unconscious when the flood of molten imagination lays down a new theory. When the new ideas crystallize, they will encase the old assumptions, which will leave rhinoceros-shaped voids of explanation in the new theory.
Lava began flowing in the Columbia Basin about 17 million years ago and continued until about 6 million years ago. In all, there may have been 300 individual outbreaks. Each lava flood was separated by thousands of years in which nothing happened.
You said: The wood found in most of these varying layers is petrified with silica, but notably in one fairly deeply located clay layer the wood was partially carbonized [nearly to coal] but not petrified. That fossil sample is found at the interpretive center in the Petrified Forest park.
It also says: At some point during the Miocene Epoch the Columbia Basin was home to an aquatic rhinoceros, huge turtles, small three-toed horses, deer, bear, camels and elephants. The late Miocene/early Pliocene period leaves evidence of horses, raccoons, badgers and coyotes.
You said: 9. HOWEVER, I am as skeptical as Stalking of the malachite femur pictured... a very short Google Image search returned a number of malachite carvings some of which are of human bones [a skull stands out notably].
10. That being conceded, petrifaction is a laboratory reproducible process, taking hours, versus millions of years, to produce indistinguishable results, using saturated silica solutions and kitchen oven temperatures.
webolife wrote:1. Stalking doesn't know what he is talking about when he speaks about fossils, particularly petrified wood.
webolife wrote:2. I have personally spent hours examining and collecting specimens of petrified wood from interlayered sediments between the lava flows of Eastern Washington.
webolife wrote:Looking at the broken cross sections of the petrified logs, one can easily observe the ringed structure of the wood, and closer microscopic examination shows individual cell features.
webolife wrote:Opal is formed from aqueous silica.
webolife wrote:formed from what I could tell as pressurized steam rewelded the diatomaceous sediment
webolife wrote:4. I've been to the Petrified Forest of Arizona several times. Stalking should go there [and rethink his life].
webolife wrote:5. I have a sample of fossilized dinosaur bone in my collection, petrified with a cherty mineral.
webolife wrote:6. I also have a sample of a small mammal coprolite, petrified with limonite [an iron oxide].
webolife wrote:fossilization comes in various stages, from soft tissue preservation all the way to full petrifaction.
webolife wrote:If there had been any evidence of these skeletons being faked, the "standard geologists" of Wikiworld would have been all over it... but they weren't.
webolife wrote:10. That being conceded, petrifaction is a laboratory reproducible process, taking hours, versus millions of years, to produce indistinguishable results, using saturated silica solutions and kitchen oven temperatures.
Lloyd wrote:If you can demonstrate how fulgarites can acquire tree rings, cellular structure etc
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