Electric Venus

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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MattEU
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by MattEU » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:22 pm

Amazing evidence for the Electric Universe theory and validation of Immanuel Velikovsky logic behind his predictions for what Venus would be like and why. Of course we all have difference ideas of its origin and what it means in mythology but the EU stuff behind it seems to be proved with this stunning news.
Over its four-year mission, Magellan was able to watch features rotate under the spacecraft, allowing scientists to determine the length of the day on Venus as being equal to 243.0185 Earth days. .

However, surface features seen by Venus Express some 16 years later could only be lined up with those observed by Magellan if the length of the Venus day is on average 6.5 minutes longer than Magellan measured.

seb
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by seb » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:50 pm

MattEU wrote:Amazing evidence for the Electric Universe theory and validation of Immanuel Velikovsky logic behind his predictions for what Venus would be like and why. Of course we all have difference ideas of its origin and what it means in mythology but the EU stuff behind it seems to be proved with this stunning news.
Over its four-year mission, Magellan was able to watch features rotate under the spacecraft, allowing scientists to determine the length of the day on Venus as being equal to 243.0185 Earth days. .

However, surface features seen by Venus Express some 16 years later could only be lined up with those observed by Magellan if the length of the Venus day is on average 6.5 minutes longer than Magellan measured.
I don't want to sound like a killjoy, but that's a reduction in speed of only 0.1% per millennium. I would say that it's big enough to be interesting but too small to be relevant to any of Velikovsky's predictions.
The Aten wrote:Prediction:

It will further slow, stop and then begin to spin the same way as the rest of the planets.

It will also rapidly cool down and eventually lose its atmosphere (which is currently fed by millions of highly active volcanic vents) as a result of the solar wind. It will then take on the appearance of a dead volcanic rocky 'cloudless' planet analogous perhaps to the appearance of Mercury or Mars.

I predict this will come to pass in hundreds (if not less) and not thousands of years. But hey, who's listening?
At its current rate of deceleration, it will take about 1 million years before it begins to reverse direction. Also, while Venus is losing its atmosphere, it is doing so too slowly for it to be problem. Earth is losing its atmosphere too to the solar wind at the poles, which might be indicative of a signficant age difference if both planets started out with a very dense atmosphere. Some very big changes would have to happen to make Venus's rotation and atmosphere change significantly any time soon.

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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by tholden » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:51 pm

MattEU wrote:Amazing evidence for the Electric Universe theory....
[/quote]


Not necessarily. Robert Bass demonstrated that the Titus/Bode law for planet orbits was basically the solution to a dynamical relaxation problem and claimed that you could start the planets pretty much anywhere and they would very quickly end up where they are now. To my knowledge, Bass' calculations did not involve anything other than gravity. I would GUESS that these new findings would not come as any surprise to Bass.

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MattEU
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by MattEU » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:08 pm

the slowing down may be small over a long time but the nature of the change in the short term is relatively massive. In 16 years it has slowed down by over 6 minutes. The earth they say loses about 1 second in that time period so it is a relatively large slow down.

considering Venus hardly spins at all (243 earth days per spin) what in a gravity universe could be slowing it down so much or why?

with regards to Robert Bass - modern science and maths is the reason we have modern science and a gravity universe, black holes, dark energy etc. They have 'proved' lots of things with maths including a universe where over 70% of stuff can not be seen or measured, so I am not sure how picking one thing out of modern science/maths works as evidence? Or have i misunderstood what you are saying (as its very late)?

the thing is that most if not all scientists would not have predicted Venus slowing down and especially by so much. they will have to look around and have a think about what could have done it and some would have to stumble on Velikovsky's ideas and predictions.

modern science got Venus totally wrong and Velikovsky, god bless his cotton socks, was saying the opposite to them and got it "right" as such. I dont see how a planet slowing down so much in 16 years does not give more backing to Velikovsky? Of all the planets to slow down it had to be Venus.

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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by Lloyd » Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:21 am

* Venus is also losing heat rapidly. It's atmosphere is described as breathing, because the top of the atmosphere rises and falls over a 4-day cycle. The rapid heat loss indicates that it was recently much hotter, as if newly formed. Cardona says it was first seen about 10,000 years ago on the face of Saturn, meaning between Earth and Saturn. Talbott seems to suggest that Venus appeared as a comet after that, maybe 4,500 years ago, while Gary Gilligan says it was only about 2,500 years ago. At http://contrarybooks.com/thoth/thoth05.txt it says:
ATMOSPHERIC BREATHING
- In 1972, a 'breathing' phenomenon was discovered in the Venusian atmosphere. It is as if the cloud cover is acting like the lid on a kettle of boiling water; the infrared CO2 lines swing through a four day cycle akin to a relaxation oscillation which builds up slowly during each cycle and then collapses. This indicates that the cloud deck moves up and down through 1 km over the entire planet. Such a phenomenon requires considerable energy input which is difficult to account for on a very slowly rotating planet if solar energy is the only source. The 'breathing' has been confirmed by the Magellan orbiter which underwent variable atmospheric braking at the lowest point of its orbit, with a 4 day cycle.
- This strange phenomenon is analogous to the lid on a kettle of boiling water and indicates planet-wide heat input. It is one of the strongest arguments for Venus' heat being sourced internally and is consistent with the the four Pioneer probes discovery of twice the radiation coming from the surface as was incident from sunlight. The surface radiation also varied by a factor of two which is difficult to explain by any greenhouse theory.
- IN SUMMARY:
- The comet-like magnetosphere, extreme heat, strong electrical interactions with the solar wind and intense lightning, ionospheric and atmospheric activity suggest that Venus has not yet achieved electrical or thermal equilibrium with its environment in the solar plasma. This, in turn, lends physical support to the interpretation of early reports of the planet as COMET VENUS and of its interaction with other planetary bodies.
- Then there is the evidence of the surface scars......
- Wal Thornhill

seb
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by seb » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:22 am

MattEU wrote:the slowing down may be small over a long time but the nature of the change in the short term is relatively massive. In 16 years it has slowed down by over 6 minutes. The earth they say loses about 1 second in that time period so it is a relatively large slow down.
It is a relatively large slow down and needs explaining, but that doesn't imply that Venus must be young, there are many other explanations too. Apart from that, if a large reduction in speed indicates a recent birth then why is it spinning more slowly than Earth - should it not be spinning faster if it is newer? Or, if its opposite rotation implies a recent birth and it is yet to accelerate in the other direction, then why is Earth slowing down too? It seems to me that if the observed deceleration of Venus meant it was new then it must abide by different rules to Earth, and I don't see why that should be.
considering Venus hardly spins at all (243 earth days per spin) what in a gravity universe could be slowing it down so much or why?
Maybe the same thing that would slow it down in an EU universe. ;) Somewhere there has to be either a transfer of momentum out of the system (e.g. tidal forces, brake pads, or the Magnets of Mekonta) or various layers of the planet are loose and able to transfer momentum around internally to be released later on (e.g. liquid core, atmosphere).
the thing is that most if not all scientists would not have predicted Venus slowing down and especially by so much. they will have to look around and have a think about what could have done it and some would have to stumble on Velikovsky's ideas and predictions.
Velikovsky predicted an anomalous rotation, but he didn't specifically predict a deceleration, and certainly not of as little as 20 seconds per year. When Velikovsky spoke of planets changing rotational speed he spoke of big changes very rapidly, coinciding with noticable shifts in orbit.

If Venus is 10,000 years old then at the current rate of deceleration it was only spinning 10% faster when it was born, i.e. about 220 Earth-days per day. The deceleration is a minor problem in the larger question of why its rotation is so strange to begin with.
modern science got Venus totally wrong and Velikovsky, god bless his cotton socks, was saying the opposite to them and got it "right" as such. I dont see how a planet slowing down so much in 16 years does not give more backing to Velikovsky? Of all the planets to slow down it had to be Venus.
It doesn't give much backing because it is far too small an effect. If Venus was found to be rotating 6.5 minutes faster, wouldn't this same thread have arisen? ;)

There are lots of things that point to a new Venus, but I don't think that the magnitude of the deceleration is one of them. It may be that the cause of the deceleration will be better evidence, but that will take time to find.

tholden
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by tholden » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:49 am

MattEU wrote:
with regards to Robert Bass - modern science and maths is the reason we have modern science and a gravity universe, black holes, dark energy etc. They have 'proved' lots of things with maths including a universe where over 70% of stuff can not be seen or measured, so I am not sure how picking one thing out of modern science/maths works as evidence? Or have i misunderstood what you are saying (as its very late)?....

Bass' findings clearly don't preclude EM effects acting to stabilize the system, but they (findings) appear to say that the EM effects aren't required for it or at least that not much in the way of EM effects are needed.

cwhelton
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by cwhelton » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:23 am

A slow spin rate makes Venus inherently unstable. I predict a decreasing rate of deceleration, followed by orbital instability, and that could mean big trouble for Earth. The era of Venerian disasters is not over.

cwhelton
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by cwhelton » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:28 am

My previous message should read... "An increasing rate of deceleration..."

seb
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by seb » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:07 pm

cwhelton wrote:A slow spin rate makes Venus inherently unstable. I predict a decreasing rate of deceleration, followed by orbital instability, and that could mean big trouble for Earth. The era of Venerian disasters is not over.
Why does a slow spin rate make a planet's orbit inherently unstable?

tholden
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by tholden » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:51 pm

cwhelton wrote:A slow spin rate makes Venus inherently unstable. I predict a decreasing rate of deceleration, followed by orbital instability, and that could mean big trouble for Earth. The era of Venerian disasters is not over.

That's possible, but I would assume that Bob Bass' findings would predict increasing stability of the system as Venus settled and if I had to bet it I'd bet it that way.

Again if I had to recommend a cause for paranoia to somebody, my first choice would be genetic entropy...

cwhelton
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by cwhelton » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:18 pm

Why does a slow spin rate make a planet's orbit inherently unstable?

It's not the orbit that's inherently unstable, it's the slowing planet. A change in rate alters the stability of a spinnng body and affects the strength of its magnetic field. These two factors could cause changes in Venus' orbit. As for genetic entropy, Earth's periodic encounters with celestial castastrophe and mass extinction do not favor the long-term survival of entropic species. Or of any species, for that matter. More than 99 percent of all the species of plants and animals that have ever lived on this planet are extinct.

seb
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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by seb » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:59 am

cwhelton wrote:
Why does a slow spin rate make a planet's orbit inherently unstable?
It's not the orbit that's inherently unstable, it's the slowing planet. A change in rate alters the stability of a spinnng body and affects the strength of its magnetic field. These two factors could cause changes in Venus' orbit.
I can see that a change in spin-rate can cause instability, because the energy has to go somewhere (possibly converted into orbital velocity), but I don't see why a slow spin-rate should be less stable than a fast spin-rate.

Why/how would the strength of the magnetic field cause a significant change in Venus's orbit?
tholden wrote:
cwhelton wrote:A slow spin rate makes Venus inherently unstable. I predict a decreasing rate of deceleration, followed by orbital instability, and that could mean big trouble for Earth. The era of Venerian disasters is not over.
That's possible, but I would assume that Bob Bass' findings would predict increasing stability of the system as Venus settled and if I had to bet it I'd bet it that way.
As for the Titus-Bode law, only the major planets up to Uranus obey it, and even then only to within a few percent. If it were a true universal law then it would be evidence of big orbital instabilities happening today, and after four billion years shouldn't the planets have settled down by now? There doesn't appear to be any compelling reason for planets to have the orbits that they have, other than adhering to Kepler's law which has a firmer physical rationale. Kepler's law doesn't imply a gravity-only universe, it only implies that whatever keeps the planets in orbit is an inverse-square phenomenon and looks like a force.

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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by The Aten » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:15 am

seb wrote:At its current rate of deceleration, it will take about 1 million years before it begins to reverse direction. Also, while Venus is losing its atmosphere, it is doing so too slowly for it to be problem. Earth is losing its atmosphere too to the solar wind at the poles, which might be indicative of a signficant age difference if both planets started out with a very dense atmosphere. Some very big changes would have to happen to make Venus's rotation and atmosphere change significantly any time soon.
Based on the recent unexpected data, quite possible, but what if Venus' rate of deceleration increases? Perhaps the rapid cooling of Venus playing a part? We could also ask, did the recent finds occur gradually as per the assumption or did it happen more rapidly?

Either way, I would agree with MattEU, the 6 and a half minutes a year deceleration of Venus is "stunning news" and totally unexpected by mainstream planetary scientists. The article almost downplays the discovery.
seb wrote:The deceleration is a minor problem in the larger question of why its rotation is so strange to begin with.
A logical sequence of events?

Venus inherited its retrograde motion during 3,000 plus years encounters with earth in the not to distant past (historical times). We have two opposing cogs, earth prograde motion imparting energy and spinning up the newly birthed incandescent Venus retrograde. How fast? who knows. Queen Venus eventually beaks away off towards the Sun (with Mercury in tow). Venus is presently cooling down and its spin rate slowing down. As above, it will eventually stop, and begin to spin the 'right' way.

As Venus cools, its many thousands of volcanic vents (which are constantly replenishing the Venusian atmosphere) will all but cease. Having no intrinsic protective magnetic field, the solar wind will subsequently strip Venus of its atmosphere. Venus will then take on the appearance of a dead rocky planet. The only analogy I can think of here would be the once earth-like Mars (home). It is proposed by many that Mars lost its atmosphere and volatiles as a direct result of losing its magnetic field.

Gg

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Re: Venus Slowing Down?

Unread post by The Aten » Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:52 am

Lloyd wrote:Cardona says it was first seen about 10,000 years ago on the face of Saturn, meaning between Earth and Saturn. Talbott seems to suggest that Venus appeared as a comet after that, maybe 4,500 years ago, while Gary Gilligan says it was only about 2,500 years ago.
Hi Lloyd,

Just a minor clarification if I may.

'Comet Venus' first appeared in the New Kingdom and using the works of many revisionists I date this to around 3,000 years ago (c 1,000 BC). Egyptologists have labelled this epoch the New Kingdom which is a very apt title inasmuch it really was a NK in the heavens. This is the time Venus crossed the orbit of earth to appear sun-side (daytime) and as a comet. This is supported by the fact that NK queens are depicted wearing the 'comet' crown only from the NK onwards, not before. This is highly significant.

Comet Venus crown as featured on TPOD http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/arch ... tvenus.htm

Even though I date Venus appearing as a comet to around 1,000 BC (as evidenced by the NK comet crowns) the birth of Venus from Jupiter occurred around 3,100 BC. This would coincide with the birth of chaos, and the subsequent birth of civilisations here on earth as a few of our ancestors managed to migrate to earth from the once earth-like Mars (home). I would also add, if chronologists move the above dates (some proposing a radical shortening), I simply move with them.

Gg

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