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Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Consciousness - the elephant in the room

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby StevenJay » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:01 am

It's all about perception.
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Aristarchus » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:11 am

An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby ranmacar » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:56 pm

Sorry for hijacking the thread, this thought just keept my awake for too long :)

What it boils down to is maybe too simple.
The Aether is a "sea of consciousness", a fluid of self-aware point entities. Each point can move, with consequences described by its fluid properties. A single wave can't do much, but through collective action complex wave patters can be produced. Thus there is a primary need to Communicate, in order to Create. Lets call this Life.

Life evolves, producing ever increasing complexity. Some entities sustain the lower structures, and some explore new possibilities. From this come two basic drives for each such structure - the Will to power - control of lower structures to increase the potential for living, and the Will to procreate - creating a copy of the new achieved complexity for some of the lower entities to ascend to, increasing its Communication potential, as incentive for the Work needed for sustaining the substructures. This is Evolution. As blind and random as we chose it to be. From a simple standing wave (electron) to the galaxy, and to the human body, and beyond.

As a by-product, Laws are created. From the basic fluid dynamics, through physics, chemistry, biology, sociology.. All the same. We are now looking back, trying to figure out how our body works. And still new complexity emerges, through society. New laws are established, old are revaluated.

Consciousness, in this view, is fundamental. And a human, everything, is a society of it, with billions and billions struggling for control in each moment. The eternal war, with Matter as its casaulties, from which we build our shells, and weapons. So forever we only fight with thoughts. This is my deepest, on which I broke.

Who did i stole it from? And does it lurk around here already?
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Influx » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:38 pm

Today is the yesterday of tomorrow.
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Aristarchus » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:33 am

An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby JaJa » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:01 am

Omnia in numeris sita sunt
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby mague » Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:41 am

Do not mix up coenaesthesis with consciousness. The first ends at the tip of your body hair, maximum visual range and maximum of sense of smell. The 2nd not. Thats why any serious school about consciousness first teaches to clean up and build a solid me-myslef before connecting the the infinite us. An us as huge as the universe. Without such teachings the me-myself might go insane.
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Aristarchus » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:19 pm

Mague, something like this:

We were talking-about the space between us all
And the people-who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth-then it's far too late-when they pass away.
We were talking-about the love we all could share-when we find it
To try our best to hold it there-with our love
With our love-we could save the world-if they only knew.
Try to realize it's all within yourself
No-one else can make you change
And to see you're really only very small,
And life flows ON within you and without you.
We were talking-about the love that's gone so cold and the people,
Who gain the world and lose their soul-
They don't know-they can't see-are you one of them?
When you've seen beyond yourself-then you may find, peace of mind,
Is waiting there-
And the time will come when you see
we're all one, and life flows on within you and without you.

- The Beatles - Within You Without You Lyrics
An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby mague » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:27 am

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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Sparky » Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:15 am

"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby mague » Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:36 am

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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Aristarchus » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:03 pm

An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Aristarchus » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:04 pm

An object is cut off from its name, habits, associations. Detached, it becomes only the thing, in and of itself. When this disintegration into pure existence is at last achieved, the object is free to become endlessly anything. ~ Jim Morrison
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Scott MC » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:58 am

Image
(hotlinked from drawtheline.com, no idea what that is)
99.999+% of everything can't be that simple, can it?
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Re: Consciousness - the elephant in the room

Unread postby Elysiumfire » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:45 am

When certain radiating forces impinge upon the body's sense organs they cause nerve signals to pulse towards the spinal column and the brain. All these nerve signals are turned into a sentient experience of the world by some yet unknown and unfathomed mechanism. The Australian philosopher, David Chalmers calls it the 'hard problem' of conscious experience.

If one is to make an attempt at providing something of a plausible hypothesis that might direct efforts towards a better understanding of consciousness and the sentient experience, it is firstly essential to try and define the very subjects of our topic.

What is Consciousness?
You, dear reader, are conscious now as you read these words. All your bodily senses are relaying signals along nerve pathways, and your brain, it is thought, is processing those signals into the experience of sentiency you are currently enjoying. You are awake and aware, and conscious. Your brain doesn't just process external sense stimuli, it also processes internal proprioceptive signals that provide data about the condition of your body such as hunger and posture, etc. It all combines somehow into a sentient experience of the world, and of 'self'.

From out of a deep lay interest in the 'mind/body' problem of philosophy, I developed, during the nineteen nineties, an hypothesis on a mechanism for how consciousness is generated. I called this hypothesis 'quantum wave-field resonance correspondence' (QWRc), from which the conclusion drawn is that consciousness is nothing more than an emergent byproduct of quantum wave-field interactions. I provide the following analogy in order to illustrate to the reader what I mean, so that they can easily visualize the mechanism.

If we have two equally-sized bar magnets on a table some small distance apart, and bring them towards each other slowly, at some point before they physically meet, their respective magnetic fields will interact, either as a repulsion or as an attraction, depending upon their polarities. We can say that they 'corresponded' with each other from which an effect was observed.

Now let us swap the bar magnets for two identical particles. While they remain apart and spatially distant from each other, each will be in their rest phase, oscillating about their centers at a particular frequency. If a wave of kinetic energy should propagate towards the particles, it will force them towards each other, to the point where their respective wave-fields interact. This will raise the particles out of their rest phase and cause them to oscillate at a higher frequency with a higher energy value. During this correspondence (interactive) phase, I postulate that a short-lived resonance arises that is the sum total of the two particles intrinsic energy and that of the kinetic energy wave. This resonance lasts only as long as the correspondence (interaction), for as the kinetic wave passes, the two particles repel each other and return to their rest phase. I posit that this short-lived resonance that arises during the wave-field correspondence is the energy foundation of consciousness, and that what I have just described is its mechanism.

Wave-field correspondences occur throughout and within the very fabric of our bodies many millions of times a second, switching 'on' and 'off' as the correspondences begin and stop. Due to the quantity and speed at which the correspondence interactions occur, the resonance that arises out of them does not fade, but remains ever present, and places the physical body in a perpetual raised energy state. When we sleep, certain chemicals dampen down particular circuits in the brain that inhibit a number of body functions, but it still remains in an energised state. Towards the end of sleep, chemicals detect the build up of other chemicals, and signal for the production of exciter chemicals that bring the dampend body functions back online to the raised energy state.

Consciousness, is derived out of that raised energy state.

The reason why I call the interactions 'correspondences' is because the resonances that arise from them are carrier waves of information. They say something about the world, as if they are jigsaw pieces, almost (or probably is) like a binary language that the brain decodes into an existential experience of the world. How it does this, this hypothesis cannot answer or postulate, but it probably has something to do with looped feedback mechanisms of present stimuli cross-referenced with data from memory?

Will come back and continue this later...
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