Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:23 pm

Sparky wrote:
I am not laughing......



You don't seem to have any reason to be laughing, serious eye problems are no laughing matter.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:38 pm

I mentioned a baker's dozen or so items which should probably be included for discussion in any sort of a neo-catastrophism confab dealing with "The Human Question".

Item nine was the question of chronological revision which has been dealt with in considerable detail in another thread here recently:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4904

The main impressions an astute reader would take away from that one, to my thinking at least, are:

  • That the best thinking on this particular topic arises from the other branch of the neo-catastrophism family (Ginenthal, Heinsohn, Sweeney et. al.) and
  • That this planet really only has about 3000 years worth of anything you'd want to call history or anything like that.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:23 am

The tenth item I noted was the question of "theomatics":

http://theomatics.com/

You may have noticed that several ancient nations used the same symbols for numbers and letters; it turns out that a word or phrase written in such a language has a numerical equivalent (adding the number value of the characters) and in the case of the Bible at least, words and phrases with similar or ralated meanings have codes which bear some relation to eachother.

The authors of the website view this as an indication that God wrote the Bible since man would not be capable of such a thing. I don't believe that. What I DO believe is that in past ages, human brains and minds were capable of things they no longer are other than in extreme cases, and writing in numeric codes may have been part of that. This fits into the sort of thing I mentioned in items 4 - 7 earlier, i.e. Jaynsiabn phenomena.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby Sparky » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:03 am

tholden wrote:
Sparky wrote:
I am not laughing......



You don't seem to have any reason to be laughing, serious eye problems are no laughing matter.


I guess that is the crux of your argument. No argument at all, except for crackpot sites, theorizing nonsense.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:34 pm

Sparky wrote:
tholden wrote:
Sparky wrote:
I am not laughing......



You don't seem to have any reason to be laughing, serious eye problems are no laughing matter.


I guess that is the crux of your argument. No argument at all, except for crackpot sites, theorizing nonsense.


I've been putting some of this stuff up here for the benefit of those who CAN get something out of it....
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby StevenJay » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:15 pm

tholden wrote:
Sparky wrote:
tholden wrote:
Sparky wrote:
I am not laughing......



You don't seem to have any reason to be laughing, serious eye problems are no laughing matter.


I guess that is the crux of your argument. No argument at all, except for crackpot sites, theorizing nonsense.


I've been putting some of this stuff up here for the benefit of those who CAN get something out of it....

Ted, wouldn't your own website be a more appropriate place for this? In several threads, you've clearly demonstrated the attitude that those who don't share your views/interpretations are either delusional, in denial or in need of an opthamologist. In other words, damaged in some way. Does it at all surprise you, then, that there has been almost no dialogue generated here? I mean, who the hell needs that kind of sophomoric abuse - especially in a "respectful" forum such as this?
It's all about perception.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:59 pm

StevenJay wrote: I mean, who the hell needs that kind of sophomoric abuse ....?


You're claiming I started the abuse??????????????????????????????????
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:02 pm

I mean, other than that, if somebody can look at this image:

Image

and NOT see the two equilateral triangles, then there really IS something wrong with his or her eyes. I mean, I'm not really into exaggeration or making things up.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby Sparky » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:41 pm

Image

Artists make use of the brain's ability to be fooled, illusion.

Perception is part of the human condition.

Delusion is part of perception. Seeing what one wants to see is why hunters shoot, logs, mules, and each other, when hunting for deer.

Delusion is usually not something a person initiates, but comes as a result of unanticipated consequences, is a genetic predisposition, or comes about from indoctrination in an ideology that does not reflect the real universe. And part of the delusion is that it is others who are at fault, do not understand, or at it's worst, "are out to do harm."

I suggest that it is the human mental condition, delusion, which more adequately describes the persistent and dogmatic interpretation of an illusion into something which other's can not see, not some corrected eye problem.

But, till better images can be obtained of these anomalies, it is all subjective, and dismissive positions on either side are logical fallacies.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:08 pm

Item eleven in my little list of topics was the question of a a relationship between Julian Jaynes' findings and the little booklets which Al de Grazia and Hugh Crossthwaite wrote dealing with electrostatic and plasma physics phenomena in ancient times, which may be viewed here:

http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/degrazia.html

In other words, could the "bicameral age" which Jaynes described have come to an end not due to societal evolution as per Jaynes himself, but due to a final collapse of a former electrostatic field of some sort?
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:02 am

The final topic I mentioned as appropriate for any sort of a neo-catastrophism confab dealing with "the human question" or anything like that is the question of EVP. That is, the question of whether or not EVP is real, and what relationship if any there might be between EVP and the kinds of things which Al de Grazia and Hugh Crosthwaite describe.

The old website for the American EVP Association is:

http://atransc.org/

That has its original content as well as links to the newer site. I do not agree with Dave Talbott's view of this topic as "wildly speculative"; speculative for sure but there is nothing wild about it and it is well motivated. From reading Julian Jaynes and Al de Grazia and Hugh Crossthwaite's works we understand that things like prophecy and oracles involved trance states (to overcome consciousness) and static electricity, and a machine which has no consciousness in the first place and can generate white noise might well be a modern equivalent of old-time religious practices.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:57 am

Actually, they made a movie called "White Noise" about five or six years ago which can be found on DVD. The movie in and of itself was nothing to write home about but the special feature section of the DVD gave a casual viewer a fairly accurate idea of some of the techniques which were being used in EVP studies, enough so to almost justify at least the cost of renting the dvd from netflix or blockbusters.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby davesmith_au » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:03 pm

Ted, wouldn't your own website be a more appropriate place for this?


Agreed. Thread locked.
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