Assuming a God is responsible for life, how does he create?

[tolenio]

Hi,

So does that indicate on our energy frequency that not only does the Milky Way house a conciousness, many other galaxies house conciousness'?

Actually that is two harmonics above us.

If you look into the Quaran you will find Jesus in a harmonic above us...

Muhammad is reported to have gone on a mysterious night journey into heaven. Islamic sources state this happened "in the spirit," his body remaining behind. In this legend, Muhammad is prepared for his meeting with God by the archangels Jibril and Mikail one evening while he is asleep in the Ka'bah, the sacred shrine of Mecca. They open up his body and purify his heart by removing all traces of error, doubt, idolatry, and paganism and by filling it with wisdom and belief. An animal by the name of Buraq, apparently horse-like and white, and with a human face, was provided for a ride from the mosque in Mecca to the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, from where he ascended, supposedly on a ladder of light to the seven heavens. In the first heaven Muhammad meets Adam; in the second, John the Baptist and Jesus; in the third, Joseph; in the fourth, Enoch; in the fifth, Aaron; in the sixth, Moses; and in the seventh, Abraham (who welcomed him as "Good son and good prophet"). Fifty prayers were ordained by Allah to be said by all believers daily

Would the vector field of a magnetic field look like a ladder?

The freakiest thing is what Muhammad found...

The Prophet saw the wildan ul-mukhalladun: creations of Allah who are not human, devils, or angels. They are a very beautiful creation of Allah whose appearance is like laid-out pearls. They are servants of the inhabitants of Paradise. The least in status of the People of Paradise will have 10,000 wildan ul-mukhalladun to serve him. Each one of them would carry a tray of gold in one hand and a tray of silver in the other hand.

In contrast to that look at the smallest motor made by mankind of carbon nanotube and gold droplets;

http://www.livescience.com/6969-world-smallest-motor.htmlScientists recently unveiled the tiniest electric motor ever built. You could stuff hundreds of them into the period at the end of this sentence.

One day a similar engine might power a tiny mechanical doctor that would travel through your body in the ultimate house call.

The motor works by shuffling atoms between two molten metal droplets in a carbon nanotube

Talk about things reduced to pablum for early mankind...

Tom

[Atlas]

A lot of amazing ideas out there. These sound a lot like the ideas I came up with some years ago while exploring this issue. For three years straight I obsessed over the end of the world, our past and the stars trying to come up with a Great Theory of Everything. The EU was critical in helping me find some of my core beliefs.

The event which caused me to begin questioning the world was 9/11. A search for truth there revealed an impending, world-wide economic collapse. When I realized the implications of such an occurrence I began looking into the end of the world. At some point I stumbled upon Velikovsky's work which eventually led to electromagnetism.

Anyway, in my search for "truth" I came to a few conclusions which were undeniable to me (but perhaps you will have reasonable arguments to the contrary?).

1) That life has always existed, that there has always been a vast intelligence with the knowledge of how to perpetuate life, and that we have been riding this wave onward into the infinite. Evidence for this is the fact that we are here, in the stories of our past and how gods ruled the Earth, in the cover-up of the EU in this age of technology we're in, and in the many unanswered questions of our past for which the mainstream has no answer but alternative explanations are the only explanation.

2) That the way things are now are the way they should be. If life has survived the infinite cycles of our past then I have little reason to believe that we have reached a point where the system has fallen apart and we have doomed ourselves to hell or oblivion. I see evidence where the course of mankind has been manipulated. Where progress has been set back by armies marching through cities and burning libraries, erasing a people's past and causing them to forget what their legends truly meant. With a moon-landing (fake or not) we believed space travel was possible. With the burning down of two buildings the greatest nation on our world focused it's attention toward the third world. Science has been led in the wrong direction and the focus kept there, despite contradictory evidence. The population was kept at a minimum until a few hundred years ago until mankind was loosed upon the Earth. Our world-wide civilization is on tge brink of collapse.

3) That this is what we do on a rock that spins around a star. We create conflict and overcome challenges to pass the time, otherwise life would be a never-ending monotony. The gods weave the dream, and the rest of us believe in it. What else is there to do? Why should we exist simply to carry on life? It's not enough to simply feel happiness and sadness: what of emotions such as compassion and courage? We are capable of so much more, and long ago someone realized the importance of maintaining our world the way it is now.

What I am not certain of is whether the end of our world is near or if there will be another cleansing and age after this one. With the advent of global civilization and technology there has been a huge demand on resources; a demand so great that scientists fear we have reached a "tipping point" where imbalances in the food chain and pollution will cause a collapse of our ecosystem. I look around and cannot help but feel that this is what the world looks like right before the end. Mankind's numbers are allowed to grow unchecked, the natural landscape and essential forests are cut down to make room for man, deserts creep across the face of the Earth. Manmade interventions, disguised as nuclear tests and acts of war augment the natural fields of the Earth and separate these areas from the rest of the life-bearing areas as if isolating a cancer that cannot be completely removed from the rest of the body.

Personally I believe the end will be here soon. I believe global civilization was timed to coincide with certain celestial events which will cause our planet to go the way of Mars and what is now the asteroid belt. The global economy is on the brink of the implosion, a present built on the debt of a future that will never be. We are at a period of time where we have nearly maxed out the technological advances we can make without discovering the unifying force of nature, an accomplishment I don't believe the whole of mankind is meant to experience. The suffering that would sweep the world were things to continue as they are would be immense. I don't believe our stewards would be so cruel or indifferent as to allow this to happen, at least not for too long, which is why I believe the end will be swift if not painless.

And right before the end, before the final moment when the final flame of life on this planet is extinguished, I believe some of us will find our way off of this planet and to the safety of a new world. But how, and where would we find such a place? It would surely be kept secret, so that nobody would show up with their armies to try to claim it for their own. And it would surely have to follow the rules of nature and the ancient geometry. A structure that has been represented in many civilizations across the world, in an area that is specially prepared to support the immense channel of energy that will make this temporary gateway possible.

It would only need a capstone...

[tolenio]

Hi,

My research paints a very different picture...

Our nightmares of civilization are man made and can be man cured. In my analysis the problems began with clothing. You could say that is when things started going wrong for us. It was a sociological choice that had biological and behavioral ramifications for our species. Coincidentally (or not) this adoption of clothes, and our acceptance of fractured knowledge as "wisdom" is where we cocked up God's plan. It upset God greatly too as told to us through theology.

Why...?

First God is still creating, we have not reached day 7 yet, but I get ahead of myself. We call Gd's creation process evolution.

At a critical point in our evolution mankind adopted clothing and farming grains. This allowed for civilization at a very high cost for our species. You see we are "naked apes". We evolved for some very specific inputs from our environment a critical one is formed in our skin.

Skin is a huge organ. Not only does it form a barrier to the environment the liver pumps HDL cholesterol to the skin. There solar UV photons from the sun cleave the structure of cholesterol and electrically rearrange it into vitamin D. The average white person can produce 15,000 - 20,000 international units of vitamin D in 10-15 minutes (naked at noon). It takes a black person about 90 minutes to achieve the same production due to pigmentation.

So you ask how can such an inconsequential thing like vitamin D change humanity so profoundly?

Well, vitamin D is not a vitamin, it was categorized a vitamin when we knew little about vitamins. Vitamin D is hormone. It is a hormone that has over 2,700 binding points in the human genome. Vitamin D (hormone D) is responsible for turning on and off genes and bodily functions across the board. It even affects the brain, which affects behavior, which steers culture, which is our history.

Wecan make 20,000 iu in minutes, yet our fractured knowledge on the subject has governments advising people they only need a few hundred units daily. Something appears very off here between what evolution (God) does, and what clothed man does.

One example that ties vitamin D and and clothing is the hormone serotonin. Serotonin is the "feel good" hormone. It drives a sense of well being. Vitamin D levels drive serotoninn levels in the brain. Vitamin D also drives dopomine levels in the brain. A naked human is capable of producing large quantities of serotonin daily when exposed to the sun in the human's natural range (Congo) via vitamin D production. With clothing we severely impaired that process.

This lead to behavioral changes;

J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neurosci. 2003 Summer;15(3):294-305.
Violence and serotonin: influence of impulse control, affect regulation, and social functioning.
Krakowski M.
SourceNathan Kline Institute for Psychiatrric Research, Orangeburg, New York 10962, USA. krakow@NKI.RFMH.org

Abstract
There has been much interest in the role of serotonin in aggressive behavior during the past two decades, but no simple one-to-one causal relationship has been found between this biological variable and aggression. The influence of serotonin is best analyzed within a broader framework that includes consideration of its role in the inhibition of impulses, the regulation of emotions and social functioning, domains that are closely linked to aggression. Impulsivity and strong emotional states often accompany violent acts. Aggressive individuals are likely to experience general difficulties with impulse control and emotional regulation, and they show impaired social cognition and affiliation. Serotonergic dysfunction will influence aggression differently, depending on the individual's impulse control, emotional regulation, and social abilities. Yet, aggressive acts occur in a broader social context. As such, serotonergic function has an effect not only on the individual but also on the group dynamics, and it is in turn influenced by these dynamics. Whether aggression will occur when serotonin dysfunction is present will depend on individual differences as well as the overall social context.

This tied cultural behavior into the Pareto Principle (80/20 Rule, also known as "The trivial many and the vital few) which is then a functin of Phi. You see the sun produces UV radiation in compliance with phi or the 80/20rule.



So when man adopted clothing how did mankind replace some of the serotonin that would have otherwise been produced? We adopted farming and grains. Well at least the races that survived adopted grains. For you see the consumption of grain based carbohydrates also up-regulates serotonin production. This is why all "comfort foods" are carbohydrate based.

But carbs cannot control over 2,700 points in the genome like vitamin D can. This lead to the "Diseases of Civilization" which can all be tied to vitamin D deficiency.

The best example of this is the Middle East and the Eskimo. Because of cultural norms regarding clothing in the Middle East there is huge vitamin D deficiency. They do not fortify foods with vitamin D either. This leads to impulse control issues, aggression and mental illness. This is evident in the Middle East. What is worse is how vitamin D deficiency affects the brain of a developing fetus...

Low maternal vitamin D as a risk factor for schizophrenia: a pilot study using banked sera
J McGrath, D Eyles, B Mowry, R Yolken… - Schizophrenia research, 2003 - Elsevier
... S4–S10 (discussion S 54-75) . View Record in Scopus | Cited By in Scopus (82). Eyles et al.,
2002. D. Eyles, F. Feron, J. Brown, A. Mackay-Sim and J. McGrath, Low maternal vitamin D 3
disrupts foetal brain maturation. Schizophr. Res. 53 (2002), p. 228. Feron et al., 2002. ...

Maternal vitamin D3 deprivation and the regulation of apoptosis and cell cycle during rat brain development…,
R Burkert, J McGrath, D Eyles - Developmental brain research, 2004 - Elsevier
Recently, it has been shown that the prenatal vitamin D 3 depletion is associated with altered
brain development. Given the antiproliferative and pro-apoptotic properties of vitamin D 3 in various
cell types, we examined the effects of maternal vitamin D 3 deprivation on cell ...

What happens to brain development over many generations of extreme vitamin D deficiency due to extremes in clothing? What type of government would be required to regulate a culture of impulse control and aggression issues? Open democracy/republic or brutal dictatorship with severe rules?

You can even watch the world react today to low vitamin D as we approoach the ~100 year Gleissberg solar cycle minima where little UV is produced by the sun. Sunspots produce vast amounts of UV which affects vitamin D production in cycles.

Forbes

I can best explain how planets can help your stock market forecasting through my own experience. I became interested in the stock market in the late 1960s by reading Edwards and Magee and the Jiler books on technical analysis. Pattern perception, as valuable as it is, usually does not tell the trader when a pattern will conclude or will manifest. In the '70s, J.M. Hurst wrote a book about the application of cycles to assist in this task, which led me to an interest in cycles.

The most understandable cycle is the annual cycle in the U.S. stock market. All traders know of the traditional summer rally followed by autumn weakness, etc. The calendar is determined by the position of the Sun, so this cycle is the solar cycle. If there is a solar cycle in the stock market, what about a lunar cycle, or a Mars cycle, or some other planetary indicator?

We are approaching a ~100 year Gleissberg minima and there is little UV, plus we now use SUNSCREEN. The economy is crashing and the world is behaving oddly,

Now take the annual UV cycle above and convert it to a 100 year cycle;



Things should be becoming clear by now. Our nightmares are our own, created by clothing.

If we were naked and living at the equator we would be making enough vitamin D that these behavioral changes would not be taking place. We would offer large areas of skin for vitamin D production and even though UV is low vitamin D would be suffcient. Now we swing and sway with the sun like a culture at the end of a hangmans noose..

Sunscreen exasorbates the problem and it can be seen in North America with the upswing of ADD and ADHD and cultrual shift towards impulse control and aggression.

Meanwhile, the Eskimo who eats vast quantities of vitamin D in their diet (whale, walrus, seal blubber) is a calm and peaceful people. They east so much vitamin D their gut regulates how much they can absorb. Just as skin can regulate vitamin D production the gut can limit vitamin D absorbtion;

Regulation of bile acid synthesis by fat-soluble vitamins A and D[HTML] from jbc.orgDR Schmidt, SR Holmstrom, K Fon Tacer… - Journal of Biological …, 2010 - ASBMB
... As expected, the action of vitamin D on bile acid homeostasis occurs through activation of
VDR. ... 4). Consistent with our previous results, in the absence of bile acids, vitamin D modestly
induced Fgf15 but did not change Shp or Cyp7a1 expression (Fig. ...

Fot those of us who are designed to get vitamin D from the sun there is an interesting process that when there is too much vitamin D UV then destroys the excess vitamin D. Very neat system.

I could write for hours on this topic but there is good news, and a solution we must find in the next 5 billion years...

Gospel of Thomas

37. His disciples said, "When will you appear to us, and when will we see you?"

Jesus said, "When you strip without being ashamed, and you take your clothes and put them under your feet like little children and trample then, then [you] will see the son of the living one and you will not be afraid."

We have been told, our science points to the answer but fractured knowldge based on the basist scraping of the surface of wisom holds us back. Clothes cocked up the plan.

It is all about the primitive inputs to God's creation and how we interfere with them via fractured knowledge.

Tom

[tolenio]

Hi,

For all us baby boomers that think we are a product of post war repopulation... Wrong.

Go back to UV and serotonin production by up-regulated serum vitmain D.



You see serotonin inspires libido. When was UV on the up-swing in the above timeline?

The serotonin transporter plays an important role in male sexual behavior: a study in serotonin transporter knockout rats
JSW Chan, E Snoeren, E Cuppen… - The Journal of …, 2010 - Wiley Online Library
... The SERT−/− rat may be a model for chronic SSRI treatment, delayed ejaculation, anorgasmia,
and/or low libido. Chan JSW, Snoeren EMS, Cuppen E, Waldinger MD, Olivier B, and Oosting
RS. The serotonin transporter plays an important role in male sexual behavior: A study ...

More UV, more vitamin D, more serotonin, more libido, more offspring. Instead of "follow the money" it should be "follow te sunny".

The flip side to that coin is solar minima. The last time there was low UV we had this...



It is all about how critical vitamin D is to the functioning of our species, which we destroy with clothing...

Vitamin D Deficiency Is Associated With Mortality In Patients Admitted To The Pediatric Intensive Care Unit With Community-Acquired Influenza Infection…,
M Helfaer, M Paden, D Willson… - American Journal of …, 2010 - Am Thoracic Soc
B25 H1N1, SEASONAL INFLUENZA AND OTHER VIRAL PNEUMONIA: CLINICAL AND MECHANISTIC
INSIGHTS Discussion Session / Monday, May 17/8:15 AM-10:45 AM / Room 293-294 (Second
Level), Morial Convention Center ... Vitamin D Deficiency Is Associated With Mortality In ...

I am only expecting about 20% of you "get it" for that defines "tivial many and the vital few"



No offense intended, it is just pure biology.

We must look beyond the forest and see the trees.

Tom

[Atlas]

While that's interesting, if it's true then I'm sure clothing is not the only method of control, nor the only responsible factor creating the "human nightmare." I just doubt that in this universe that has been around for ages that we would screw up and somehow make a mistake like this. It seems like a sloppy mistake, and when you are guiding life into the infinite I doubt there's room for this kind of error. Do you believe things were fine before we discovered clothing? Or that if you went back far enough you would even find a beginning, a time before which clothing had never existed? That's tantamount to saying that time or the universe had a beginning, before which there was nothing.

What of fast food and how it's poisoning massive amoumts of people? How diets low in omega-3 fatty acids effect us? What about flouride, aspartame, video games, GM crops or power lines?

Clothing adds to a people's identity. It adds to our culture and, while unnecessary (because nature gave every creature exactly what it needs to survive), it gives us something else to occupy our time with. I'm sure your analysis of layers of clothing, poor hormone D synthesis and growth development is extremely relevant to the human condition. I just don't agree that it's a mistake. It's extremely naive to believe we could (or should) have a perfect world. Someone has to work in the coal mines. Someone has to do the hard labor. Not everyone can lead a perfect life while achieving perfect health. And what if you tell them that exactly what they are doing is detrimental to their quality of life? How would we set aside for the future when no one wants to pick the crops and everyone wants the finer things in life?

[tolenio]

Hi,

I mentiond that primitive inputs to our biology is key. Fast food is not a primitive input. Very little of our modern world conforms to our primitive biological inputs. Even birght light after sunset disturbs our circadian rhythms and impacts health but nobody thinks about it.

Lighting for the human circadian clock: recent research indicates that lighting has become a public health issue.
Pauley SM.
Sourcespauley@cox-internet.com

Abstract
The hypothesis that the suppression of melatonin (MLT) by exposure to light at night (LAN) may be one reason for the higher rates of breast and colorectal cancers in the developed world deserves more attention. The literature supports raising this subject for awareness as a growing public health issue. Evidence now exists that indirectly links exposures to LAN to human breast and colorectal cancers in shift workers. The hypothesis begs an even larger question: has medical science overlooked the suppression of MLT by LAN as a contributor to the overall incidence of cancer? The indirect linkage of breast cancer to LAN is further supported by laboratory rat experiments by David E. Blask and colleagues. Experiments involved the implanting of human MCF-7 breast cancer cell xenografts into the groins of rats and measurements were made of cancer cell growth rates, the uptake of linoleic acid (LA), and MLT levels. One group of implanted rats were placed in light-dark (12L:12D) and a second group in light-light (12L:12L) environments. Constant light suppressed MLT, increased cancer cell growth rates, and increased LA uptake into cancer cells. The opposite was seen in the light-dark group. The proposed mechanism is the suppression of nocturnal MLT by exposure to LAN and subsequent lack of protection by MLT on cancer cell receptor sites which allows the uptake of LA which in turn enhances the growth of cancer cells. MLT is a protective, oncostatic hormone and strong antioxidant having evolved in all plants and animals over the millennia. In vertebrates, MLT is normally produced by the pineal gland during the early morning hours of darkness, even in nocturnal animals, and is suppressed by exposure to LAN. Daily entrainment of the human circadian clock is important for good human health. These studies suggest that the proper use and color of indoor and outdoor lighting is important to the health of both humans and ecosystems. Lighting fixtures should be designed to minimize interference with normal circadian rhythms in plants and animals. New discoveries on blue-light-sensitive retinal ganglion cell light receptors that control the circadian clock and how those receptors relate to today's modern high intensity discharge (HID) lamps are discussed. There is a brief discussion of circadian rhythms and light pollution. With the precautionary principle in mind, practical suggestions are offered for better indoor and outdoor lighting practices designed to safeguard human health.

Copyright 2004 Elsevier Ltd.

Think "primitive inputs"... The biology adaptd to them for 5-7 million years. Turn on a light at night and you are impacting your health and your family's risk of cancer. Nobody even wants to think about this connection.

Even chimpanzees fight and kill, their vitamin D levels are higher than ours too, but they do not have wars.

Now the bonobo ape is closer to humans than chimpanzees. They have less hair than chimpanzees, more social than chimpanzees, and have better impulse control than chimpanzees, have longer legs and are more bipedal than chimps and have higher libido than chimps. They make more vitamin D and more serotonin. Humans make the most serotonin in response to vitamin D.

While the homosexual bonding system in Bonobos represents the highest frequency of homosexuality known in any species,

What exactly are some of the things serotonin does that may seperate us from the Bonobo?

Approximately 80 percent of the human body's total serotonin is located in the enterochromaffin cells in the gut, where it is used to regulate intestinal movements.[1][2] The remainder is synthesized in serotonergic neurons in the CNS where it has various functions. These include the regulation of mood, appetite, sleep, as well as muscle contraction. Serotonin also has some cognitive functions, including in memory and learning. Modulation of serotonin at synapses is thought to be a major action of several classes of pharmacological antidepressants.

In March 2011, Chinese scientists found male mice lose their heterosexuality if bred without serotonin

Being naked apes we maximized vitamin D which maximized serotonin which maximized mood, learning, memory and imagination. Being naked gave us the advantage of brain power. Naked is our roots.

Serotonin receptors are also linked to hallucination, and to me a hallucination is "imagination run wild". The human ability to imagine is critical.

Is there any societal norm between creativity and homsexuality? Hmmm... Ask Disney.

There is no limitation on screwing up when free will is observed. A single mistake can cascade into thousands.

Clothing does not add to your identity, it allows you to build a false one. Just like the fast car, nobody needs to go 0-60 in 2 seconds, nobody needs a $2,000 purse. Theseproducts are produced to impress others, to give a false impression of self, to build a false impression of self for those with impaired egos, or self worth issues.

People who do not care about clothes and things are making a much larger statement.

I said only 20% of you will get it, and God uses similar math... It is not esy to achieve "standard" in this creation...

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you.

When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

23. Jesus said, "I shall choose you, one from a thousand and two from ten thousand, and they will stand as a single one."

39. Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

In my opinion when God speaks of "worldliness" it is a statement about straying from the primitive inputs.

I am not here to convince anybody, people have their own choices to make.

Do Bonobo need somebody to work the coal mines? Were there coal mines in the garden of Eden? Or are these things which have become necessary through a cascade of mistakes?

4. Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live.

For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one."

What does a seven day infant know and rely on that the person old in days has forgotten? A power greater than temselves will look after their every need. They only need to be compliant. A infant that refuses it parent dies.

With fractured knowleldge we left our natural range, where clothing was not necessary, where food was plentiful, and all was provided for us. We concoured the planet but lost even more.

Not to worry there is a back up plan in the other hominids. They are up to hunting with spears now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyGxQq7jSA8

I do not expect people to be happy about me tearing down their paradigm.

Later,
Tom

[Atlas]

Interesting theories but you're derailing the thread. Please try to remain on topic. I started a thread about creation of planets, which I tried to expand to destruction of said planets because I feel the two are closely related. If you'd like, you could start another thread about these ideas and I'd be happy to join you in discussion there.

[tolenio]

Hello,

I agree 100% we were talking creation.

My opinion... (all creation)

A planet is created by a plasma discharge and the related equaorial gravity wave with applied plasma.

A planet does not evolve, or becomes stilted when it loses the plasma dicharge necessary to sustain it.

In other words its filamentary plasma connection is broken.

Did Mars Interact with Jupiter and this shorted out Mar's filimentary connection? Possible.

Control the filimentary plasma connections and control creation.

Tom

[Atlas]

Eh... I'm bored and no one else is participating so I'll pick apart your arguments which I feel are fallacious. I agree about the actual EU portion of your discussion. Your philosophy, however...

Being naked gave us the advantage of brain power. Naked is our roots.

And what of the Aborigine, which roamed the outback mostly naked and yet has the lowest IQ of any people on the Earth? What of the men and women who have amazingly high IQ's and yet have worn clothes their entire life? Of course you'll probably say that IQ is not equivalent to true intelligence, which lies in the imagination. If you do I'm inclined to agree, but I don't agree that nakedness and exposure to sunlight enhances our brain power. I'm sorry. Some of the wisest and greatest minds have come from the temperate climates far north of the equator.

There is no limitation on screwing up when free will is observed. A single mistake can cascade into thousands.

So God gave man free will. Man screwed up God's plan. Man is paying for his mistakes and God is angry? So you believe that this is the first time in the history of the universe that there has been a world populated by man? Or do you believe this is the first time man has had free will? Perhaps you feel this is the first time man has screwed up God's plan, or that God did not foresee man using his free will to make mistakes?

Clothing does not add to your identity, it allows you to build a false one. Just like the fast car, nobody needs to go 0-60 in 2 seconds, nobody needs a $2,000 purse. These products are produced to impress others, to give a false impression of self, to build a false impression of self for those with impaired egos, or self worth issues.

But that's wrong, man. I don't know about you but I dress pretty casually, and I don't really feel the need to impress anyone. I got my useful truck (nothing too fancy) to get around this world because that happens to be the quickest way to get to the store. By all means, if you want to run around naked somewhere near the equator then go ahead. I don't believe your identity will be any more "real" than mine because you're wiping your ass with leaves or sleeping in the trees. I also don't believe these identities we possess are any more false than the ones our ancestors possessed before the advent of the wheel. Our environment, our customs, our memories influence who we are, though they are NOT US. Just as someone born in India will probably grow up to be Hindu, so someone who is born around cars will probably drive them, and wear clothes while they're driving them, too.

People who do not care about clothes and things are making a much larger statement.

Again, that's just... like... your opinion, man. The status of any profound statement is subjective. The fact that you place so much importance on this issue shows me that you have a very narrow world view. One which you feel is superior to every other. Does that sound familiar?

Numerous Biblical Quotes Go Here

I do not believe these are evidence of anything. Also, your wild interpretations of the Holy Scripture are simply too far-fetched. Why would God make anything so difficult to interpret? Why can't the Bible simply mean what everything thinks it means, which would be the most logical conclusion seeing as it was meant to influence the people of the world and inspire them to belief in God and not confuse them?

In my opinion when God speaks of "worldliness" it is a statement about straying from the primitive inputs.

And you could quite possibly be the only person who believes this. Am I supposed to believe that God wrote the Bible for you? Or that when God speaks of worldliness, he is speaking of mankind's attachment to the vices and corruptions of our existence on Earth (like just about everyone else believes).

Do Bonobo need somebody to work the coal mines? Were there coal mines in the garden of Eden? Or are these things which have become necessary through a cascade of mistakes?

No, but I also don't believe the Bonobo are capable of establishing great civilizations without them (or some other form of energy). Unless they want to walk around naked all day foraging for food they had better get their shit together. Also who says there weren't some other civilizations paralleling the existence of the Garden of Eden? Did the Garden expand across the face of the Earth, or was it located somewhere near the Tigres and Euphrates like the Bible says it was? Because if it was limited to that area then I see no reason why there couldn't have been some other civilizations around the Earth where people wore clothes and did other civilized people things. It would explain where the descendants of Adam and Eve found their mates.

What does a seven day infant know and rely on that the person old in days has forgotten? A power greater than temselves will look after their every need. They only need to be compliant. A infant that refuses it parent dies.

And who are you to say that we've turned our backs on God and that we are no longer in line with his will? How do you presume to know God's plan? Because you strongly believe we should all be naked and we aren't? I look at how far we've come in the past few hundred years and I see the divine workings of Providence. Sometimes you have to worship the God you have and accept the world He's laid before you, and not the god you want and the world you wish you had.

I do not expect people to be happy about me tearing down their paradigm

No need to worry, you haven't really torn down anything. And while I know you're thinking "he's one of the 80% who doesn't get it" I can tell you I understand what you're talking about. I just really don't agree with it.

[davesmith_au]

There are other forums for discussing God, religion and politics. Use them. Read the rules and guidelines of our forum and please don't ask me why this thread is locked.

Dave Smith.
Forum Administrator.