Antarctica - once a tropical paradise - video

[MattEU]

Once, not so long ago
There was a thriving land of green valleys,
It's hills covered with deep dense forests,
And its seas bursting with myriads of fish.
Then in nights of destruction and fire it was overwhelmed,
Its fertile plains succumbed to crushing ice.
Today it is a bleak and bitterly cold.
Today no one dreams Antarctica was once a tropical paradise

And so starts Peter 'Mungo' Jupps latest EU related documentary and this video is about Antarctica that was once a tropical paradise, but when and was it not very long ago? You can watch 8 minutes of it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhm4mf7lw5E and if when you want to buy the full version you can purchase it on his site http://www.ancientdestructions.com.au/s ... radise.php that links to his articles on this subject.

For those thunderbolts people who took part in the fascinating Antarctica discussion last year some of the topics will be familiar. The maps showing a possible ice free Antarctica, fossils and why does the center of Antarctica, with the smallest amount of snow, have the thickest ice sheet?

There are more of the usual suspects being interviewed in the video and that is always welcome. From God himself to Rens, so not a bad cast to keep you entertained.

Even if you know a lot about the EU/Antarctica ideas Peter introduces an interesting idea about axis or earth shift and that is related to electron flip. i hope i get this bit right, so if i have not please correct me, but it seems that if you get a large electromagnetic frequency pulse you can make an electron flip 90 degrees. did this happen to earth? Mungo has a computer graphic to show what might have happened.

My own thoughts are, if this how the earth did flip, has it happened to other planets also?

The only missing thing is that the video does not really describe possible ways it could have happened but I guess we dont really know and there are a number of possibilities.

Another good video to show EU newbies and for those thirsty for more EU documentaries

[ancientd]

Thanks for the post MattEu and a slight or actually major error. The flip described at a sub atomic level occurs to the protons not the electrons. This phenomena is taken advantage of in clinical MRI ( magnetic resonance imaging )
I'll quote a typical description of the process:

"In typical MRI the spins ( of the PROTONS ) are deflected from equilibrium by applying a short radio frequency pulse ( RF pulse note: in our postulated case of the Earth, synchrotron radiation ) The pulse has to meet the following conditions. The RF pulse must have the same frequency as the protons. This means its oscillation frequency has to match the LARMOR frequency of the protons( this is the net magnetization in its equilibrium state . It is static and therefore does not produce a current in a receiver coil ) . Only then can the protons resonate in response to the RF pulse.The stronger the energy of this RF pulse the greater the angle of deflection for the magnetization.In clinical MRI these are usually 90 or 180 degrees. The resultant deflection is known as the FLIP ANGLE "

source: " Magnets, Spins and Resonances " by SIEMENS. ed: Manfred A. Heinrichs

[ancientd]

The video is also availible on the Thunderbolts website off MIKAMAR.

[StevenJay]

My own thoughts are, if this how the earth did flip, has it happened to other planets also?

The only missing thing is that the video does not really describe possible ways it could have happened but I guess we dont really know and there are a number of possibilities.

I've contemplated this too, Matt.

I subscribe to the Saturn Theory and have always wondered what angle the polar-aligned Saturn system was to the solar ecliptic when it entered its electromagnetic domain. Could the sun's polarity have caused Earth to shift its orientation 90 degrees after the break-up? Or was it due to interactions with the other planets that were ricocheting around the system at the time?

[MattEU]

i dont know how quick any sort of "electron flip" that affected the earth would take but would it help explain those long days and nights that velikovsky and ancient books like the bible mention? If the earth shifted 90 degrees instantly or over a 12 or 24 hour period would it increase a day and for how long? It looks to me like the maths should be easy but i guess its where you are on the earth and what direction it flipped?

And of course the same with a 180 flip angle?

[moses]

Not only was Antarctica ice free, but also the Arctic and the rest of Earth. What can explain this. Well the Earth's magnetic field is decreasing so that back then the magnetic field could have been vastly greater. Presumably this would have been caused by a large electric current flowing into and around the Earth. This would have warmed the entire Earth, and the Sun could have been a lot further away from Earth.

Then all that is needed to suddenly turn the polar regions freezing is to suddenly turn off this electric current and send Earth into an elliptical orbit around the Sun. Then no flip of the Earth is required.
Mo

[MattEU]

Not only was Antarctica ice free, but also the Arctic and the rest of Earth. What can explain this. Well the Earth's magnetic field is decreasing so that back then the magnetic field could have been vastly greater. Presumably this would have been caused by a large electric current flowing into and around the Earth. This would have warmed the entire Earth, and the Sun could have been a lot further away from Earth.

Then all that is needed to suddenly turn the polar regions freezing is to suddenly turn off this electric current and send Earth into an elliptical orbit around the Sun. Then no flip of the Earth is required.
Mo

good points by moses as always. are there any evidence or ancient mythology of lands of ice? and the problem is that any scientific evidence for ice i would personal ignore, as the dating of things seems to have a lot of questions linked to it, if the squatter man has anything to say about it.

and from all the stories it would seem that the world was indeed more electromagnetic in the past, the reason why people could hear the voices of gods? then if gravity and/or the planets orbits is an electromagnetic effect you have double bubble to create the ice sheets

but could it or what was a large enough shock to the system to freeze the creatures like the woolly mammoths nearly instantly?

[Aveo9]

Not only was Antarctica ice free, but also the Arctic and the rest of Earth. What can explain this. Well the Earth's magnetic field is decreasing so that back then the magnetic field could have been vastly greater. Presumably this would have been caused by a large electric current flowing into and around the Earth. This would have warmed the entire Earth, and the Sun could have been a lot further away from Earth.

Then all that is needed to suddenly turn the polar regions freezing is to suddenly turn off this electric current and send Earth into an elliptical orbit around the Sun. Then no flip of the Earth is required.
Mo

What if the "large electric current" consisted mostly of plasma containing hydrogen and oxygen ions? Or even plain water? (Ancient accounts seem to agree that the Earth was surrounded by water). When the current was switched off, this mixture would have instantly frozen into electrically charged ice and rained down onto Earth along the Earth's magnetic field lines. According to this diagram in Wikipedia the approximate centre of the northern ice sheets was off the coast of northern Greenland or Ellesmere Island - which corresponds with the approximate location of the north magnetic pole.

The effect would have been similar to pouring honey onto a slice of bread. Ice would have spread across the surface of the Earth crushing and pushing everything before it, and would have continued to be deposited until the "plasma sheath" was drained of ionised water.

Just an idea (and not originally mine). Apologies if it's been raised before.

[moses]

Yes, others have suggested that there was much water/ice in the Birkeland currents of those times, and then there is the isea that water came from further away, around Saturn maybe. But this is the first that i have heard of the water following the earth's magnetic field, and I am kicking myself for not thinking of this.

If the ice fell in one big fall then that would have been a huge stress on the crust. One has to wonder whether the crust would have fractured near to Antarctica. The isostatic effects might well have resulted in land going up and down all over the Earth, but possibly much quicker under this fast fall scenario. And if there was about equal amounts of ice deposited at both poles then there would have been, well, lots of icebergs !

I guess it sounds pretty likely, but I would still have Earth in an elliptical orbit, but now it might mean more melting. Thanks for the idea.
Mo

[Julian Braggins]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, how do we explain the 800,000 year ice-core layers that show varying annual dust deposits and trapped atmospheric gasses. And haven't the wooly mammoths been dated to ten thousand years or so?
Nice idea, but it doesn't seem to stack up to data.

Still thinking, maybe two events rather similar, the water, cold but not frozen smashed the mammoths and trees as they are found and could have done the same to Antarctica,with its flora and fauna maybe a million years previously, and then the cold set in. Does that sound possible?

[nick c]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, how do we explain the 800,000 year ice-core layers that show varying annual dust deposits and trapped atmospheric gasses.

The ice core dates are derived from a uniformitarian analysis.
Here is a catastrophists interpretation:
http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophi ... s/ice.html

[The Great Dog]

A Picture of the Day from Mel Acheson:

Ring of Ice Ring of Fire

TGD

[ancientd]

Answers to 2 questions posed by the "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE".
1) woolly mammoths dates of ten thousand years . In fact some carbon dates at Wrangel Island are down to 5000 years ago while others are all over the place . Nevertheless whether buried in the Le Brae tar pits, frozen whole in the Siberian ice with tropical vegetation in their stomaches, smashed together in their thousands in the "Alskan muck" or encased in Limestone/sandstone in South Dakota they were all destroyed by at least one and maybe repeated cataclysmic events. Rick Firestone maintains they were alos covered by a variable" black matt" on their undoubted cataclysmic demise. He maintains they were also pitted with iron and carbon spherules and radioactive iridium attended the scenario. The likelihood of " synchrotron" or other devastaing radiation of minute solid projectiles accompanying this scenario seems extremely high . Therefore any carbon dating afterwards would be hopelessly inaccurate . the ratios of C12 to C14 ( or C13 for that matter) would of been made chaotic by neutron, electron, positive ION or other charged paricle or RF ( e.g. X-Ray) pulses . Similarly CME's affect isotope ratios in todays atmosphere but less violently. This again leads me to believe that radiocarbon dates assosciated with this extintion could no way be relied on. I.E. erratically younger or older. A second fact is that without tree ring wiggle matching to calibrate these Carbon dates they are wild beyond 5000 years ago and guess work up to there claimed limit of 50,000 years .

I qoute the ANU scientist Libby
"Should we believe the older dates, which always seem curiously more desirable to archaeologists, measured on base-soluble humic acids fractions, or the younger dates on insoluble residues? The unpalatable choice for both black sediment and burnt bone dates seems to be between soluble or insoluble organic humic substances, both of which are of unknown composition and dubious origin. Webb (1989) argued for the older soluble humic acids dates on these burnt bones, on my advice at the time. I subsequently changed my view (Gillespie, 1997; 1998) and supported the younger insoluble dates, on the grounds that humic acids of whatever age are not likely to represent the burnt carbon we seek in charcoal or burnt bone. Not much of a choice and neither may be the real age.”

]Finally another answer that is actually within the movie itself.
2) Ice core dates are based on a one year old per layer PARADIGM. The film demostrates that this is way out and in fact ISOTOPE variation ( e.g. OXYGEN ) varies with every electro magnetosphere variance . In other words a series of thunderstorms will create unique layers of isotopic and dust

A bit of a ramble . The conclusion? Something big happened with the demise of the Megafauna. Whether the cause was a CME or solar flair, the comings and goings of Saturn as Dwardu etc would contend, a Venusian comet as Velikovsky maintained, or a Tunguska meteor storm as Rick Firestone thinks is open to conjecture. The timing is also open to conjecture. But keep the arguements rolling and we may get near the truth
all the best Peter Mungo Jupp

[Julian Braggins]

Thank you to the three previous posters, as I stated I was just being Devils Advocate and was hoping for arguments that would support the ancient maps and Velicovski. The alternative explanations for the Greenland icecap seem pretty strong together with the findings of vegetation debris coming out of Greenland glaciers and the base of ice cores.
Antarctica not so strong but possible around the coast and that is all that is needed for the maps. I can't remember if the forest remains there were fossilized or vegetative, will have to look at the video (limited download )

The thought that icecaps could form in just a year or so is pretty amazing, but then didn't Squaw Valley get 60' of snow this year, and that with only "Global Warming"

[Julian Braggins]

Well, the video was a waste of half an hour, nothing new, move on. i wish they would put a transcript with videos. I wouldn't have wasted the download plus buffering time.

It looks as if there are only fossils from a web search, so in the absence of vegetation remains from bore holes as found in Greenland it looks as if the continent was only free of ice around the perimeter for a time not long enough for substantial colonization to occur when the maps were drawn. Perhaps in the warming period the ice migrated from the heights to the below sea level basin in the interior, which could account for the greatest depth of ice being in the place that now has the least precipitation. Fascinating how just a few pieces of plant remains could rewrite the history of the Earth if found miles below the ice!