Ben Stein's Expelled

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Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby BullSchmutz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:04 am

Hey guys, I have been lurking on these boards for a long, long time but I don't have the background in electricty to add any input on these boards. Anyways.

I just saw Ben Stein's documentary Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed and it perfectly describes the lack of Academic Freedom you all discuss on here. His movie chose Intelligent Design to show the resistance of those in charge to budge from their scientific dogma, and the harms of believing in false science. I think many issues could have been used, especially man-made global warming and the big bang/gravity based universe.

But everything you guys speak of, being barred from being published, being denied of grants, getting fired, and not being allowed telescope time (well, its counterpart in ID) is perfectly shown. They even fired professors with tenure.

He could have made the same exact movie but with EU instead and it seems it would have been identicle.
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby junglelord » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:27 pm

I just made a PM to that extent. Dave Smith knows what I am talking about. We are only allowed to take that story so far at present. Thats all I can say, but it feels like some of the very problems you speak of could become some of the rules of this forum. That is a problem with any new idea. Once you try to decide how far it is allowed to be envisioned, you then kill any vision. Once you name and claim its territory, you have made the box. Then it becomes stuck. Bruce Lee always warned about this. Still I can take what I have been given and continue on as is my nature. I cannot function within a closed lid box. I can only take so much dogma from the History Channels show on the Universe any more, makes me gag. I certainly have trouble with limited observations. I do not promote any talk of religion or politics, but the world is drowning in it, all the while trying to stay afloat with political correctness....feels like the titanic.
;)

I guess I feel that the EU has unlimited potential for real world applications. Those applications are not kosher if they are Skunkworks Projects. This forum is purely for Cosmological discussions in reality. I hate to see it limited to that but that is what the forum wants. I can respect that. To me that is like packaging it up to be like the Theory of Relativity. What real world application does it have or hold? None. All the while Tesla is not to be found in college text books in electronics and his work and real world applications are certainly evident and quite possibly still being explored in Skunkworks Projects. To not to be able to speculate on what the military is up too is leaving us to dable in only public domain. Thats not going anywhere fast. To divorce the reasons for the foot dragging at so many levels is turning a blind eye to the truth and the facts IMO.

I heard a telling commercial two days ago from an oil company and I quote
"If one day scientist find a magic ball of electricity that never stops, then that day we can give up our dependance on fossil fuels, until that day we search for new and cleaner ways to keep you going"

Guess what Big Oil, I found the "magic" ball of electricty...
:?

A look into the industrial military complex leaves no doubt as to the control of media and government. That is for other forums, I agree, but a fact none the less. The applications of EU technology is in reality Tesla Technology. That is hard to seperate from public domain and military domain, especially if we are to get to the heart of the matter and the meat of the topic. Yet some how we must walk that fine line of imaginary divisions. Where only public information/disinformation is valid for evaluation, yet military technology is a area 51 no mans land. Ben Rich of Skunkworks and Boyd Bushman of Skunkworks have made very telling public confessions to the extent they could. Unless it was disinformation on their part, then the limits on secret technology is honourable for National Security but will forever be the cat they don't want out of the bag, then I fail to see how one can intelligently discuss the EU without at some point in time crossing that line.
:cry:

Meanwhile the History Channel Series The Universe talks about dogma like fact, hand over fist. In fact the amount of dogma they present as hard science is sickening and certainly runs the risk of being called Brain Washing, almost a church of sciencetoloty...that is the present state of things in both cosmology science and the standard model.
:roll:

Its a funny world. Man compartamentalizes everything, in reality, that is a illusion. The extent to which you can call their hand on the dogma is very very very controlled and restricted. Most people live in a bubble due to the amount of compartaments that have been artifically created, imaginary lines that are more powerful then reality....thats the truth of the matter. How many bubbles people are willing to allow you to break are limited to everyones level of comfort. No one is comfortable with no bubbles in a public forum. There are always bubbles that apply, dispite how "open" they make the public forum appear. Those imaginary lines are more powerful then reality. Even here.
:cry:
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— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby junglelord » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:38 pm

For instance here is the guest last night on Coast to Coast, the place where I first heard about the EU, when Wal and Thornhill were on in Nov 2007.

Tom Valone discussed his work in zero point energy, Tesla technology, & electro-gravitics and also spoke about the healing aspects of various electrotherapies.
http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.org/


How can you discuss the EU and not talk about Tesla, or then not talk about electro-gravitics and not talk about Skunkworks? I fail to see the broken link in this train of thought>?
:cry:

Here are two quotes from the web site and the Coast to Coast guest. Lets see we find Meyl, so far so good.

The First Nikola Tesla Energy Science Conference & Exposition

In recognition of the Wardenclyffe Tower Centennial (1903-2003) , Integrity Research Institute held a two-day conference, on November 8-9, 2003, featuring experts on Nikola Tesla's wireless transmission of energy and Tesla's electro-therapeutics. FINAL PROGRAM is below. Pictures from the conference will be posted. Tapes and DVDs are available. Read a review of the conference.


Saturday, November 8, "Wireless Electricity Seminar"

9:30 AM - Opening Address by Program Director of the National Science Foundation: Dr. Paul Werbos "Space Solar Power"
10:15 AM - Physics Professor, Research Scientist, Inventor: Dr. James Corum with physicist, teacher, consultant: Kenneth Corum "Nikola Tesla and the Development of RF Power Systems"
12:15 PM - Lunch
2:00 PM -
From Germany:
Engineer, Inventor, Author, Professor Konstantin Meyl "Power Engineering Scalar Field Theory: Faraday vs. Maxwell & Demonstration of Longitudinal Wave Transmission"
3:00 PM - Break
3:15 PM - Nuclear & Astrophysicist, Inventor, Earthquake Predicter: Dr. Elizabeth Rauscher "Wireless Energy Through the Earth-Ionosphere Cavity"
4:15 PM - Dr. K. Meyl - Part II "Scalar Wave Experimental Demonstration" (both lectures together on one video or DVD)
5:00 PM - Dinner Break
6:30 PM - "Masters of the Ionosphere - HAARP Modifies the Polar Electrojet" A Special BBC video screening.
7:30 PM - Professor, Author of Wizard, The Life and Times of Nikola Tesla: Dr. Marc Seifer "The Wardenclyffe Dream: Tesla's Plan for Wireless Worldwide Distribution"

http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.o ... confer.htm


Then we find this interesting piece on Homopolar Motors and of all things, UFO.

THE HOMOPOLAR HANDBOOK:
A Definitive Guide to Faraday Disk and N-Machine Technologies
Foreword by Gary Johnson, Ph.D.


The rotating disk dynamo has mystified every scientist since Faraday's 1831 discovery. Also called a unipolar generator (or N-Machine by Bruce DePalma), its efficiency is often known to above 95% in commercial models. Nikola Tesla's Notes on a Unipolar Dynamo, Einstein and Laub's article on a rotating magnetic dielectric, Inomata's new Paradigm and N-Machine, a list of homopolar patents, and more are included. Can the homopolar generator become a self-running free energy machine? Facts are here so the reader can reach an informed conclusion. (192-page book)

Investigating the Paulsen UFO story and the DePalma claims of overunity, the author began an earnest scientific endeavor in 1980 to build a homopolar generator and test for the elusive "back torque" which had never been measured before. The project helped complete his Master's degree in Physics at SUNY at Buffalo. Only afterwards did the connection to John R. R. Searl's energy and propulsion invention become apparent. (Each roller magnet in the Searl device is a small homopolar generator and the entire set of rollers create a radial Lorentz force too.)
http://www.integrityresearchinstitute.o ... polar.html


Its all related and impossible to subdivide into compartments if one is to understand the entire truth and not just a portion of it. Such is the nature of the Universe and such is the nature of the EU. Imaginary lines of division that hold back truth and become realtity are much too prevelent in society and modern discussion.

You can skirt the issue as much as one would like, but Gravity, Electro-Gravity, and UFOs are linked. Does the Skunkworks team have Electro-Gravity? Boyd Bushman and Ben Rich say an emphatic yes! So I fail to see why its taboo or not kosher or intelligent to review the most advanced technology on earth, that would be the Skunkworks Team of Lockheed. Especially if they cracked Gravity! That would be a milestone and we all know it. Would they hide it? Yes! Can we discuss Gravity and not get into antigravity? I do not see how????
:?

Can we discuss Gravity and discuss Electricty with full freedom? Can Gravity be a inverse square law function and Electricity be a inverse square function and not be related? I fail to see how? I am sure even Wal has stated that he believes Gravity is a Electro-Gravitic dipole function longitudinal field effect.

The equivalence of inertial and gravitational mass implies that gravity is also an electrical force. Before Einstein, some noted scientists were suggesting that the gravitational force between neutral particles might ultimately be due to electrical polarization within the particles. In 1882, Friedrich Zöllner wrote in the introduction to his book, Explanation of Universal Gravitation through the Static Action of Electricity and The General Importance of Weber's Laws, "…we are to conclude that a pair of electrical particles of opposite signs, i.e. two Weberian molecular pairs attract each other. This attraction is Gravity, it is proportional to the number of molecular pairs." Indeed, gravity can be represented as the sum of the radially aligned electric dipoles formed by all subatomic particles within a charged planet or star.

This new electrical concept suggests that Newton's "universal constant of gravitation," or "G," is a dependent variable. G depends upon the charge distribution within a celestial body. Highly charged objects like comets look like solid rock, yet they have a gravitational field that suggests they are fluff-balls. And as they discharge they suffer what is euphemistically called "non-gravitational" accelerations. The extreme weakness of the force of gravity, compared to the electric force, is a measure of the minuscule electric dipolar distortion of nucleons. Gravity cannot be shielded by normal electrostatic shielding because all subatomic particles within the gravitational field respond to the dipolar distortion, whether they are metals or non-metals.

What about magnetism? Ampere's law for the magnetic force between two current carrying wires is found to be equivalent to the transverse electric force caused by the distortion of electrons in an electric field. This distortion causes them to form tiny collinear electric dipoles. That is, the magnetic force is simply another manifestation of the electric force.

This simple electrical model of matter has the great virtue of reducing all known forces to a single one – the electric force. However, it has a price. We must abandon our peculiar phobia against a force acting at a distance. And we must give up the notion that the speed of light is a real speed barrier. It may seem fast to us, but on a cosmic scale it is glacial. Imposing such a speed limit and requiring force to be transmitted by particles would render the universe completely incoherent. If an electron is composed of smaller subunits of charge orbiting within the classical radius of an electron, then the electric force must operate at a speed far in excess of the speed of light for the electron to remain a coherent object. In fact, it has been calculated that if released, the subunits of charge in the electron could travel from here to the far side of the Andromeda galaxy in one second!

We have direct evidence of the superluminal action of the electric force, given that gravity is a longitudinal electric force. Indeed, Newton's celebrated equation requires that gravity act instantly on the scale of the solar system. It has been calculated that gravity must operate at a speed of at least 2x1010 times the speed of light, otherwise closely orbiting stars would experience a torque that would sling them apart in mere hundreds of years. Similarly, the Earth responds to the gravitational pull of the Sun where it is at the moment, not where the Sun was 8 minutes ago. If this were not so, the Earth and all other planets in the solar system would be slung into deep space within a few thousand years. Gravity is therefore an electrical property of matter, not a geometrical property of space.

What is the nature of light? Einstein's special theory of relativity was disconfirmed right at the start by the Michelson-Morley experiment, which showed a residual due to the æther. This was later confirmed by far more rigorous repeats of the experiment by Dayton Miller. But by then popular delusion and the madness of crowds had taken hold and contrary evidence would not be tolerated. The Dayton Miller story makes interesting reading. If it weren't for the extraordinary power of self-delusion, commonsense would tell us that a wave cannot exist in nothing. So Maxwell was right, light is a transverse electromagnetic wave moving through a medium, the æther.

But what is the æther? In the vacuum of space, each cubic centimetre is teeming with neutrinos. And since neutrinos are resonant orbiting systems of charge, like all matter, they will respond to the electric force by distorting to form a weak electric dipole aligned with the electric field. The speed of light in a vacuum is therefore a measure of the delay in response of the neutrino to the electric force.

What about the bending of starlight by the Sun, which discovery raised Einstein to megastar status? The residual found in the Michelson-Morley experiments shows that the Earth and all ponderable bodies "drag" the æther along with them. The bending of starlight near the Sun is simply the effect expected of an extensive neutrino atmosphere held to the Sun by gravity. Light will be slowed in the denser medium – causing normal refraction or bending of light.

What about time? With all bodies in the Milky Way galaxy communicating their positions effectively in real time through the electric force of gravity, it means there is a universal time. There can be no time distortion or time travel – something that common sense always told us.

What about black holes? They are a mathematical fiction, a near-infinite concentration of mass, required to explain concentrated sources of energy seen at galactic centers, by employing the weakest force in Nature – gravity. It is the high-school howler of dividing by zero. Plasma cosmology shows that where electrical energy is concentrated at the center of a galaxy, gravity can be ignored in favor of far more powerful electromagnetic forces. The collimated jets of matter coming from that focus are also replicated to scale in plasma labs. The jets are inexplicable if a black hole is supposed to be a cosmic sink for matter.




The implications for biological systems in this electrical model of matter are profound. A method of near-instantaneous signalling between resonant molecular structures within cells and on cell walls seems plausible and may provide a way of looking at the mind-body connection and other communications external to the body. It may provide a link between classical physics and the pioneering work of the biologist, Rupert Sheldrake, in biological morphogenesis and telepathy.




Also, the work of the outstanding French biologist, Louis Kervran, may gain a working physical model to explain how biological enzymes are capable of transmuting chemical elements at body temperatures. It seems that by exquisite tuning, one resonant system of nuclear charges may be transformed into another. And like the decay of the neutron, ubiquitous neutrinos are implicated as a catalyst. It may be that the answer to our future power needs will be answered when we understand how to extract nuclear energy resonantly instead of by using brute force as we do now. The New Jersey based company, Black Light Power, seems to have stumbled upon a similar process using a resonance between hydrogen and the iron atom. It is interesting that biological systems also use heavy elements like iron and magnesium to perform their minor miracles of transmutation of elements.

The electrical relationship between matter and mass allows us to understand how quasars can be newborn objects that have low mass and brightness and high intrinsic redshifts. With time, their mass increases and their intrinsic redshift decreases in quantum jumps. This shows that quantum effects also occur on a galactic scale. It is another powerful argument for the near infinite speed of the electric force. The electrical nature of the universe reveals the currently accepted life story of stars as an elaborate fiction. Stars do not self-immolate. Plasma cosmologists identify cosmic electrical power lines of unknown origin that shape galaxies and light the stars in our small corner of the universe. These findings about intrinsic redshift and electric stars explodes the big bang myth: The universe we can see is not expanding; it is only a small part of the universe that is of unknown extent and unknown age.

This outline may seem like the basis for a "theory of everything" but in truth the greatest mysteries remain. We cannot talk sensibly about a beginning of the universe since the mystery of the origin of electric charge and the nature of the electric force remain.

Meanwhile, the good news for us on this tiny blue planet is that we are not isolated by time and space in a universe of dark matter that we cannot sense. We are an integral part in real-time of this sensible electric universe.
..................................................................................................................................................

1. Professor H. Dingle in his Presidential Address to the Royal Astronomical Society in 1953.
2. Herbert Dingle, Science at the Cross-Roads.
3. From New Scientist, "Nobel laureate admits string theory is in trouble," 10 December 2005.
4. R. Sansbury, Electron Structure, The Journal of Classical Physics, Jan 1982. (I am indebted to Ralph for his ideas on electron structure and the electrical origin of magnetism and gravity).
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=gdaqg8df


Are we to pretend that Skunkworks does not have Antigravity?
:?

If we do how does that help the EU, or if we don't how does that hinder the EU? I am curious as to why its taboo> I really don't get it. There is a big difference between conspiracy theories and national security...although the two are woven together like bread and butter. I hate it, but that is the nature of the industrial military complex. I dont want to leave out the most important proof, yet that seems to be the imaginary line of credibility or political correctness or national security. I do see a perverse logic to not talking about it, but its none sequetar to leave it out if one is searching out the EU and Gravity Cosmology.

PS I just taped two hours of the History Channel series on The Universe and I have to say it feels like CIA Disinformation Propaganda (certainly feels like brainwashing after learning what I have learned), Church of Cosmology Religious Dogma of a very high degree, with "scientist" speaking as if they were God himself, or priest and popes that speak for him. The whole issue is a can of worms and at some point its gonna be opened. Just like I opened a can of worms with my statement that The Magnifying Transmitter was a Theta Pinch. Now that the cat is out of the bag where do you draw the line? How long can NASA talk about "new discoveries" and not mention Birkeland, seems almost daily. At what point do you stop telling people to pay attention to history and the present?
:?:
With much respect.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:24 am

I concur fully with Junglelord's comments in the above posts. And I too have reservations about the 'censureship' (censorship is too strong a word for now at least). Like it or not, this forum is political in the sense that two or more people discoursing about matters which affect humans is politics. With regard to religion, or perhaps more properly, spirituality or metaphysics, many of the subjects discussed on this forum including EU theory are operating on the border between the 'how' of things and the 'why' of things.
I am not suggesting that we should have dedicated political or religious topic areas but that the debate, with the EU/plasma model at its root, should be allowed to develop wither it will, guided by the intelligence, broadmindedness and wide-ranging interests of the users of this forum.
There is some really good stuff going on here on this forum.

Peace.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby webolife » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:45 am

I agree with both Junglelord and Grey Cloud on much of the above... although I'm not a conspiracy theorist perse like JL, and I tend to believe that the military industrial complex operates more out of ignorance (possibly willful) than out of conspiracy, the real issue I see here goes by the name of the "scientific consensus". Make no mistake about it, both religion and politics are at least generically involved, and despite what Plasmatic has elsewhere argued as "skepticism" on my part, it is important to me that open communication not exclude the discussion of underlying beliefs. JL and GC are both pretty forward about their faith base, and I am willing to be as well, as it helps frame our conclusions in such a way as to communicate sense and meaning to others. People, whether here or in traditional scientism, who try who couch their statements/conclusions in the shroud of "objectivity" miss an important truth: The universe is real, all the facts are unified and comprehensible, invisible though many of them are, and we need our different perspectives to uncover and reveal that underlying wisdom. Each of us knows only in part, plain and simple, which is what drives this forum and honest science in general. Ben Stein does a good hob of exposing the fact of scientific exclusionary religiosity in the light of uncanny and alternate evidences. By the way, as long as science is a battle of allegedly superior evidences, we will likely always fall short of the truth, ie. all the evidence fits together in the "final theory".
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:59 am

Grey Cloud wrote:I concur fully with Junglelord's comments in the above posts. And I too have reservations about the 'censureship' (censorship is too strong a word for now at least). <snip>

Peace.


I'm thinking perhaps both words are too strong and inaccurate in describing the volunteer-enthusiast moderation we have here.

cen·sure (senÆshÃr), n., v., -sured, -sur·ing.
–n.
1. strong or vehement expression of disapproval: The newspapers were unanimous in their censure of the tax proposal.
2. an official reprimand, as by a legislative body of one of its members.
–v.t.
3. to criticize or reproach in a harsh or vehement manner: She is more to be pitied than censured.
–v.i.
4. to give censure, adverse criticism, disapproval, or blame.
[1350–1400; ME < L c"ns%ra censor's office, assessment, equiv. to c"ns(us) ptp. of c"ns"re (see CENSOR) + -%ra -URE]
—cenÆsur·er, n.
—cenÆsure·less, adj.
—Syn. 1. condemnation, reproof, reproach, reprehension, rebuke, reprimand, stricture, animadversion. See abuse. 3. reprove, rebuke, chide. See blame, reprimand.
—Ant. 1 –3. praise. Random House Webster's Unabridged Dict.


cen·sor (senÆsÃr), n.
1. an official who examines books, plays, news reports, motion pictures, radio and television programs, letters, cablegrams, etc., for the purpose of suppressing parts deemed objectionable on moral, political, military, or other grounds.
2. any person who supervises the manners or morality of others.
3. an adverse critic; faultfinder.
4. (in the ancient Roman republic) either of two officials who kept the register or census of the citizens, awarded public contracts, and supervised manners and morals.
5. (in early Freudian dream theory) the force that represses ideas, impulses, and feelings, and prevents them from entering consciousness in their original, undisguised forms.
–v.t.
6. to examine and act upon as a censor.
7. to delete (a word or passage of text) in one's capacity as a censor.
[1525–35; < L c"nsor, equiv. to c"ns("re) to give as one's opinion, recommend, assess + -tor -TOR; -sor for *-stor by analogy with derivatives from dentals, as t$nsor barber (see TONSORIAL)]
—cenÆsor·a·ble, adj.
—cen·so·ri·al (sen sôrÆ" Ãl, -s$rÆ-), cen·soÆri·an, adj. Random House Webster's Unabridged Dict.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:26 am

junglelord wrote:<snip>

This forum is purely for Cosmological discussions in reality. I hate to see it limited to that but that is what the forum wants. I can respect that. To me that is like packaging it up to be like the Theory of Relativity. What real world application does it have or hold? None. All the while Tesla is not to be found in college text books in electronics and his work and real world applications are certainly evident and quite possibly still being explored in Skunkworks Projects. To not to be able to speculate on what the military is up too is leaving us to dable in only public domain. Thats not going anywhere fast. To divorce the reasons for the foot dragging at so many levels is turning a blind eye to the truth and the facts IMO.

<snip>

A look into the industrial military complex leaves no doubt as to the control of media and government. That is for other forums, I agree, but

<snip>


The way I understand it, it is purely a matter of FOCUS. Forums and groups such as "Above Top Secret" and the "Coast-to-Coast" enterprise cater to the wider focus on fringe areas that so engage the imagination, encouraging and inviting speculation on a come-one-come-all basis. And we are all at liberty to start up our own sites, blogs, and forums to likewise air our own perspectives, outrage, indignation, and calls for political activism on any given front or issue. And how many times must any of us make a passionate plea for some aspect or other of our personal vision and recognitions? I realize it's a shadowy "line," and I am certainly not immune to the lure of expressing my own opinions redundantly at the expense of others' patience and tolerance. But I am trying to follow my own advice against reiterating it over and over across numerous individual forums and topics and stating it, hopefully clearly and concisely to whatever degree I'm capable in an appropriate context, and being done with it for the most part.

I'm pretty sure people have listened, are listening, and I'm as sure that it can get tedious to keep hearing the same personal opinion-piece time-and-time again on "fringe" subjects that really have no direct bearing on the matter of presenting the more focused, objective case of the Electric Universe theory as stated by the Thunderbolt Project; the more "far out" subjects which, in fact, ofttimes only serve to steer attention away from the case to be made. We should also be conscientious in not mistaking the more public, objective case for the EU as particularly representing the entirety of the private, personal views and outlooks of any its individual members. As I said on some other thread, we all might be surprised at some of the personal opinions of Wal Thornhill and David Talbott when it comes to some of the more esoteric notions raised in this thread, for example. Personally, I have no idea what those might be, aside from a few hints I have gleaned here-and-there, and I wouldn't presume nor wish to put words in their mouths.

I think this discussion is apropos in that maybe it will serve to focus our attention to those factors that unite us more in singularity of interest, inquiry, and purpose when it comes to the dissemination and acceptance of the more objective, base concepts of EU theory.

Seems to me that harping on divisive issues, particularly such as ET or the implications of government and/or aristocratic elite in conspiratorial design and cover-up, things hopelessly mired in contrived cloak-and-dagger secrecy - while making for interesting and passionate coffee shop conversation and, perhaps, which also serve certain vested interests and purposes - does not serve the more mundane objective of making an academic case for the theory of an Electric Universe. Again, I can't presume to speak for the project or its individual members so it could be I'm mistaken in what the primary objectives, in fact, are. But if one of them is, indeed, to breech the thought and philosophy of "hallowed halls of academia" with the concepts of EU then I should think that is better served by keeping the opinionated chitchat about conspiracy of numerous ilk to a minimum, and certainly confined to the NIAMI forum to whatever degree our hosts permit.

I am a big fan of the topics suggested by The Human Question forum's description, and am not advocating that we steer clear of those topics in the least. And I have some personal crack-potted notions of my own when it comes to conspiracy theory, but I don't think they are at all germane to what the Thunderbolt forums are all about.

2¢ worth and then some. :P
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby Plasmatic » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:43 am

Say Web its clear were still having a bit of a communication problem on "Skepticism",but thats alright.

[1]People, whether here or in traditional scientism, who try who couch their statements/conclusions in the shroud of "objectivity" miss an important truth: [2[The universe is real, all the facts are unified and comprehensible, invisible though many of them are, and we need our different perspectives to uncover and reveal that underlying wisdom.



But this is exactly what Objective means my friend. Can you tell me what im missing if this is meant as a contrasting of the 1st statement from the 2nd?
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
Ayn Rand
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby Plasmatic » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:58 am

I realize it's a shadowy "line," and I am certainly not immune to the lure of expressing my own opinions redundantly at the expense of others' patience and tolerance. But I am trying to follow my own advice against reiterating it over and over across numerous individual forums and topics and stating it, hopefully clearly and concisely to whatever degree I'm capable in an appropriate context, and being done with it for the most part.


As long as IT [what ever IT is ]is relevent to the context/FOCUS .and not a repeat of the same verbage in the same thread , others desires have no place in your choice of iterations , and the frequency applied therof. Dont be so concerned what others want to hear. :) Thats the reality of a public forum . Say what you want in context to the forum , and be prepared for others to say what they want about your statements wether you agree or not. Its life amongst a pluarlty of perspectives ;)
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:03 pm

Plasmatic wrote:
I realize it's a shadowy "line," and I am certainly not immune to the lure of expressing my own opinions redundantly at the expense of others' patience and tolerance. But I am trying to follow my own advice against reiterating it over and over across numerous individual forums and topics and stating it, hopefully clearly and concisely to whatever degree I'm capable in an appropriate context, and being done with it for the most part.


As long as IT [what ever IT is ]is relevent to the context/FOCUS .and not a repeat of the same verbage in the same thread , others desires have no place in your choice of iterations , and the frequency applied therof. Dont be so concerned what others want to hear. :) Thats the reality of a public forum . Say what you want in context to the forum , and be prepared for others to say what they want about your statements wether you agree or not. Its life amongst a pluarlty of perspectives ;)


Ceding to others' desires, and second-guessing whatever those may be, is nowhere near the same as demonstrating courtesy and respect for their patience and tolerance, not to mention the dubious value of tedious repetition (outside of psychological conditioning). Sounds like what you heard ("concerned about what others want to hear") but is not what was said or intended. My point would have more relevance to eventually being "tuned out" and subsequently not heard at all vs whether or not the message is particularly popular. Of course, the remaining portion of the thought's context would be important to the actual message: "I'm pretty sure people have listened, are listening, and I'm as sure that it can get tedious to keep hearing the same personal opinion-piece time-and-time again on "fringe" subjects that really have no direct bearing on the matter of presenting the more focused, objective case of the Electric Universe theory as stated by the Thunderbolt Project; the more "far out" subjects which, in fact, ofttimes only serve to steer attention away from the case to be made."

And, damn. Here I am tediously repeating myself. :lol:

I invite you, however, to have the last word. :P
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby Plasmatic » Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:55 pm

I think I see what your pointing at. The "patience and tolerance " comes into play in relation to "fringe" subjects that really have no direct bearing on the matter of presenting the more focused, objective case of the Electric Universe theory as stated by the Thunderbolt Project; the more "far out" subjects which, in fact, ofttimes only serve to steer attention away from the case to be made." Which makes my statement about comments in general "related" to the "context" repetetive. and irrelevent to the context of your actual statement. ;) Of course in this context it has to do less with "courtesy" and being "tuned out" then following the rules of the forum and being deleted by a moderator. :)
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
Ayn Rand
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby junglelord » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:18 pm

I am mainly interested in what is Gravity? ( I used it as a tool in my clinical practice for over 12 years and Ida Rolf always talked about gravity, so it kills me to not know what it is as no one has found the charge carrier.) Therefore it is not fair to ask the question "Is it Electro-Gravity?"
:?

What Technology would or could or has been achieved by Industrial/Military programs (Skunkworks) with a Unified Field Theory (based on public quotes and sightings) of a EU and Electrogravity if one understood the first two questions... That seems logical enough.

Lets be very clear...I am not into trips of fantasy, conspiracy or anything else but public statements. I have been repeative about my signposts on the journey because for me there is no disconnect or imaginary tales, or fringe science, as often labeled on these subjects. Rather I have gathered several telling, but real life quotes by people in the industry at Skunkworks and married them to what Wal Thornhill says. That is why I repeat it over and over. The fringe label is a public label and stigma, but the public statements by people like Boyd Bushman and Wal Thornhill would refute the "fringe" label stigma at least here I would hope. Remember the EU is total nonsense to almost everyone with any push in the industry, at least at a public level. More then once have there been threads about the response to the EU model on other physics forums...its supposedly pure BS.

Be that as it may, that does not stigmatize the EU for me. Boyd Bushman, Wal, Talbott have made a huge influence in my thinking. I hate "Above Top Secret" and such forums. This forum is only about science I pray to God...LOL. Otherwise we are just fooling ourselves and are as far off target as the History Series The Universe.

I am not into Star Trek! I am into Skunkworks. If Boyd Bushman and Ben Rich are not serving us disinformation, then they are telling us as much as they can with the restrictions imposed. I do not speculate, I only take real quotes from real people in Skunkworks and ask what is between the lines of their cryptic talk? I hope that can be done in a sane and logical way without tripping the light fantastic, or flights of fantasy. I have seen good reputable shows on Antigravity and Skunkworks by Janes Weekly. That is all legitament public access. So in that way it is not conspiracy, nor flights of fantasy.

At the same time lets never blur the lines or makes false impressions of what one can do with public statements by Above Top Secret Scientist, lets keep it to what they said and ask if its either fact or disinformation. That would seem to be a fair rule of thumb.

I posted Wals view of Gravity and it is a Electro-Gravity model. Since all indications are that Wal knows what he is talking about, and all indications are that Boyd Bushman knows what he is talking about when he says that he is working on something that all you do is charge it and it loses weight!

I fail to see any disconnect, any conspiracy and any reason not to talk about public statements made by people we trust. They all agree that the modern model is now where near accurate. That is way too much common ground to not discuss their individual statements into a cohesive whole. That is only logical. I hope that makes it very clear about how far I would take any discussion considered "fringe" and stigmatized as such due to its label. I think we can walk that walk with integrity and logical scientific questions about a Unified Field Theory. After all that is what Cosmology is all about. Dispite the present climate of "science/dogma" and the Church of Modern Cosmology attempts to play god, I believe we can bring dignity to the EU (that fringe element is pure BS and a false label applied to the EU to discredit any reasonable or logical discussion in intellectual circles.) and dignity to Electro-Gravity, Unified Field Theories and technology by the most advanced group in the world. That is quite possible with this special group of talented and out of the box thinking individuals. I firmly believe that. I hope the rest of the forum feels the same about our collective talents.

PS I am always the first one to ask, is this right or wrong, and I have no trouble finding out its wrong. I love new paradigms. Remember six months ago I was eating up the History Channel Universe Series, and loving it. I believed they must know what they are talking about and dispite my innear sense that thinks did not add up, I always figured I must be wrong and was as brainwashed as the next guy....now I gag. So what is the fringe in reality anyway? The EU or the History Channel group of Cosmologist? Now that I have found a place where I can follow my hunches I am not so incorrect as they told me I was. Or this group is totally out to lunch and we are all deceiving ourselves...take your pick.

So I have a real simple question. Do they have Floating Triangles? Yes or no. What did the governor of Arizona (some one with military experience) see the night of the Phenoix Lights that he finally disclosed on Larry King last fall, if it was not our technology (that means no ET hypothosis allowed). He saw a Massive Flying Triangle. This is the Governor of Arizona on public record. He thinks it was ET. I disagree with him on that account. I would like to keep the conversation to it being from our planet. That would at some level keep it none fringe? (for some reason I still never get but I can swing that way). I must humbly submit that we have flying triangles that use some manipulation of electrogravity and are built by Skunkworks. They have radar tapes from Belgium, video from Europe, sightings by very public officials here and abroad. It is not fringe nor is it imaginary. It is a fair and honest question. I see only one answer...yes we do.

Now why would that hurt so much to admit I believe that? I really have the ponderance of evidence on my side. You have to discredit Public accounts by Governor on the night of a massive sighting, Military accounts from Belgium and Belgium Police, Radar Technology and the electronic file of the evidence and Video evidence to the contrary. I also have Scientific statements by Bushman, Rich, Thornhill to back up the rest of the evidence. In fact Thornhill and Bushman are my trump cards. They connect the entire picture with a wonderful frame. Would that not be a feather in the cap of the EU instead of a blemish> does it not support the view of Thornhill?
:D 8-) ;)
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby webolife » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:19 pm

Plasmatic asked:
Say Web its clear were still having a bit of a communication problem on "Skepticism",but thats alright.

[1]People, whether here or in traditional scientism, who try who couch their statements/conclusions in the shroud of "objectivity" miss an important truth: [2[The universe is real, all the facts are unified and comprehensible, invisible though many of them are, and we need our different perspectives to uncover and reveal that underlying wisdom.

But this is exactly what Objective means my friend. Can you tell me what im missing if this is meant as a contrasting of the 1st statement from the 2nd?


The second statement follows my belief that no single (and no-one's) viewpoint is entirely objective or factual. Since all scientists are included in my belief, I say that "it takes a village" of us (sorry for the cliche) to understand and reveal the underlying objective truth. Anyone who tells me that they have the correct understanding of ______ , or quotes the "scientific consensus" to support an argument, will get an eye-raise from me. Hence my signature line:
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby Plasmatic » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:00 pm

I see , we are still saying the same thing, my previous position still stands as is. :)
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
Ayn Rand
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
Aristotle
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Re: Ben Stein's Expelled

Unread postby Tzunamii » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:08 pm

"Expelled" serves us as a Valuable tool in teaching people the Hoops that the controllers of mainstream thought will Jump through to keep control of information, to the detriment of Anyone who stands in their way.
That they chose the topics they did is also an advantage, as it probably includes more people than it alienates. Most people have a philosophy on one side of that fence or another.
The sooner more people recognise the veil they've been manipulated into percieving their reality through, the sooner We as a whole will see the stranglehold on information and reality loosen.
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