What produces consciousness?

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby CTJG 1986 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:11 pm

Maddogkull1 wrote:Yes, None of it matters. Because when you are unconscious, you are not aware, you technically don’t exist (until you wake up again) the brain has to produce consciousness. Or maybe consciousness is encoded in our DNA? If the brain does not produce consciousness, what does? Electricity? I just cannot see anything else producing consciousness besides the brain, or body for that matter. There had been nothing to say that consciousness exists outside the body.


Read my edit. Or better yet I'll just repost the part that matters:

When you go to sleep at night you voluntarily go into a physically unconscious state, your body recuperates while you are in that state. But your brain and consciousness do not cease to operate, hence why one is capable of "dreaming" while physically unconscious.

But being physically conscious is simply an effect of consciousness, to become unconscious does not end one's consciousness.

Whether in a physically conscious or unconscious state the normally so-called 'unconscious' part of your brain still is capable of functioning, without consciousness it would not be.

Consciousness is a force or field or such, to be physically conscious or unconscious is an effect of various factors acting on or in conjunction with that consciousness.

---

Note: Brain waves are electrical impulses, muscles are controlled through electrical impulses that cause the muscles to expand and contract allowing movement, the heart is powered by electrical impulses, our nervous systems is electrical impulses... and so on.

Everything else including life itself is a product of electrical activity, where that electrical activity comes from is where you will trace consciousness too.
The difference between a Creationist and a believer in the Big Bang is that the Creationists admit they are operating on blind faith... Big Bang believers call their blind faith "theoretical mathematical variables" and claim to be scientists rather than the theologists they really are.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Maddogkull1 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:27 pm

From what I understand plasma conducts electricity. So would you say that plasma is conscious? OR the electron for that matter? Also would you agree that, when you die your consciousness ceases to exist anymore?
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby CTJG 1986 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:18 pm

Maddogkull1 wrote:From what I understand plasma conducts electricity. So would you say that plasma is conscious? OR the electron for that matter? Also would you agree that, when you die your consciousness ceases to exist anymore?


Well, I'm not sure how many people will agree with me but in my personal views:

So would you say that plasma is conscious? OR the electron for that matter?


Yes and no. I believe in universal consciousness, meaning that the energy force or field that permeates and 'powers' the entire universe also provides us with the energy for life and consciousness.

That energy may be conducted through plasma in it's physical forms("visible" electricity) and that plasma may then contain consciousness within it. That consciousness/energy may even be able to alter or control/manipulate the plasma in some manners.

But that does not mean the ionized 'particles'(such as electrons) that constitute the plasma are physically or mentally conscious in any way. In order to "transform" that energy in a way as to produce a physically or mentally conscious state such as human beings experience requires a special receiver/antenna of sorts.

I do believe this receiver is located in our human brains, but for other beings/objects that do not have brains that appear to have consciousness in regards to being aware of their environments it may manifest itself in other forms.

Also would you agree that, when you die your consciousness ceases to exist anymore?


No, in my view it seems more likely that when our physical body dies the energy force that is consciousness returns to the 'field' of universal consciousness.

The proverbial 'light at the end of the tunnel' is the connection of your individual consciousness to the universal consciousness field, once you pass that threshold and have returned to the universal field there is no coming back, at least in a normal physical sense.

But from there we get into reincarnation and paranormal activity(ghosts or spirits and such) which although I do have opinions on I have not come to any conclusions on in regard to me having a specific theory(ies) that I support, so I'll leave that for another discussion.
The difference between a Creationist and a believer in the Big Bang is that the Creationists admit they are operating on blind faith... Big Bang believers call their blind faith "theoretical mathematical variables" and claim to be scientists rather than the theologists they really are.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Maddogkull1 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:38 pm

Thank you for that amazing post, it has been helpful. But what you said leads me to my next question. If universal conscious exists, why can't I access your thoughts? Why am I an individual instead of something around the lines of a hive mind? It seems like isolation makes more sense than universal connection? Wouldn’t you agree? If everything is connected I should be able to somehow at least experience every human that has existed, yet I am only me, Maddogkull1. I have 1 ego, 1 mind. If universal consciousness exists like you said, I should be able to at least access another mind? Shouldn’t I?
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Maddogkull1 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:43 pm

Also just wondering do you believe in individuality after death? Or not at all. By that I am meaning a soul of course.
Also you talk about the brain being some sort of cosmic receiver. Where would you say this cosmic receiver is located? I know it cannot be the pineal gland as I have personally known people who have gotten that removed from cysts and tumours, so that rules that out. Any other ideas??
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby starbiter » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:55 pm

Hello Maddog: Anyone who gives answers to your question is an idiot. That says something about your question. These issues are best suited to questions, not answers, IMHO.

Questions rock, michael
Last edited by starbiter on Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby GaryN » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:04 pm

This guy is easy to listen to, and has some thought provoking ideas. A one hour talk, includes his ideas on consciousness.

Regeneroinics: Science of human Eternality.

http://regeneromics.com/Part01-TheSecret.htm

I think that in this (and other threads dealing with the subject of consciousness) there is a need to define the term, before there can be a meaningful exchange of ideas. Everyone is not, I suspect, on the same page as to how and what they define as consciousness.

Nick


For sure. Is ego the same as consciousness? I'd say the ability to ponder ones own existence defines a truly conscious being, but that requires language. The few instances of feral children seem to show that after the age of 7 language becomes harder to acquire, and by 12 it is no longer possible to acquire. They then run only on the hard-wired, instinctive, action-reaction circuits. Are they conscious?
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Maddogkull1 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:33 pm

Yes those children would be conscious. But were does that consciousness go when they die? If it is a field, they would still be consciouss, but from what I have studied, it seems like it is all produced from electro-chemical activity in the brain. Once that goes at death, there is no you. There is nothing? Am I not right?
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby CTJG 1986 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:34 pm

Maddogkull1 wrote:Thank you for that amazing post, it has been helpful. But what you said leads me to my next question. If universal conscious exists, why can't I access your thoughts? Why am I an individual instead of something around the lines of a hive mind? It seems like isolation makes more sense than universal connection? Wouldn’t you agree? If everything is connected I should be able to somehow at least experience every human that has existed, yet I am only me, Maddogkull1. I have 1 ego, 1 mind. If universal consciousness exists like you said, I should be able to at least access another mind? Shouldn’t I?


First I have a question for you - Have you ever experimented with meditative practices?

All of my views on this matter were born out of personal experiences I have had with spiritual meditation, and although it's impossible to convey the experiences adequately to others(I have tried numerous times) regardless to say it is possible to 'connect' with other beings in my view.

Human beings are capable of 'connecting' with others in another realm of spiritual existence(a manifestation of the entire universal field), but to achieve such requires a vast amount of mental and spiritual conditioning.

Just as we need to learn how to walk, talk, think intelligently, go to the bathroom, etc. we need to learn how to adapt our minds to be able to manipulate our connection to the universal field in order to actually experience it first hand.

Certainly there is some research out there that may support my claims here and much that opposes it but my views are entirely born from experience on this topic and as such I only typically seem sane to those who have actually experienced it themselves.

One way I've found of describing it that some people can understand is that it is like being on an extremely powerful mind altering drug, but without any drug or foreign substance of any kind involved and with a clear, understandable underlying 'background' to it in which any and all entities connected to the universal field may manifest themselves.

It's simply altering the state of your mind through the power of your mind. When you are in this state you don't think about anything, you feel everything.

Although one individual may experience something slightly different than others based on previous conditioning of their minds I do believe that ultimately all of those experiences are different manifestations of the same alternate reality or 'plane of existence'(the other realm as I typically refer to it).

Some individuals may even be able to manifest these abilities of 'connection' to others outside of that other realm in this physical realm by way of 'mind reading' to some extent.

Also I would like to say that while I love your inquisitive nature if you come into topics such as this looking for clearly defined answers you aren't going to find what you are after, for the most part the answers that anyone is capable of providing are likely only to produce far more questions.

I am trying to provide answers based on my views but even most of my answers here just beg many further questions, most of which I do not even come close to having answers for myself. Some of which are likely beyond human comprehension entirely.

Maddogkull1 wrote:Also just wondering do you believe in individuality after death? Or not at all. By that I am meaning a soul of course.


I do believe that the human "soul" is the individual's 'portion' of energy/consciousness contained within that person's biological vessel(body).

I do believe complete conscious individuality is what the majority of human beings experience today but also that it goes against nature which traditionally likes everything to be connected.

In death I believe our individual "souls" return to the universal field of total connectedness and individuality in that sense essentially dies with the biological vessel.

Also you talk about the brain being some sort of cosmic receiver. Where would you say this cosmic receiver is located? I know it cannot be the pineal gland as I have personally known people who have gotten that removed from cysts and tumours, so that rules that out. Any other ideas??


I offer no hypothesis on what specific part of the brain functions as the receiver, it may be that the brain in it's entirety functions as this receiver somehow(the sum of it's parts), but in my views it seems likely that it would be the same part of our brain that contains or controls our unconscious/subconscious mind.

I have focused most of my interest on this issue on the philosophical or spiritual aspects of it as that is what I have experienced first hand, such a specific physical question would be best asked of someone with greater knowledge of human anatomy and neurology than I have.

If you are looking for 'hard science' this may not be a good topic for you.

But anyways, I'm happy to share my views with anyone who asks but if you have only ridicule please refrain from responding, I provide these personal views only to help you try to define your own views on the matter. You will not find a 'scientifically valid' theory within my writings.

Most would and do dismiss me as being insane, perhaps they are right. I know trying to understand the universe from the view point of a 'sane' mind hasn't gotten us far at actually understanding it all. We have many descriptions for the universe certainly, but little if any understanding. Perhaps to truly understand it you do need to be 'insane'(a different state of mind).

Meh, I'll end my rantings there for now.

Jonny


EDIT: Just to note - for me this is an area of spirituality rather than hard science in which the discipline of science may not be up to the task of comprehending it as it involves many uncertainties, though many scientific aspects would of course factor into it.

But for me I stick mainly to the spiritual side of it.
The difference between a Creationist and a believer in the Big Bang is that the Creationists admit they are operating on blind faith... Big Bang believers call their blind faith "theoretical mathematical variables" and claim to be scientists rather than the theologists they really are.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby starbiter » Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:57 pm

I'd like to remove the word idiot. People can only give personal opinions. Just not answers on these issues, IMHO.

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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby CTJG 1986 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:04 pm

starbiter wrote:I'd like to remove the word idiot. People can only give personal opinions. Just not answers on these issues, IMHO.

michael


Indeed, I used the term 'answer' a few times simply to be a change from saying 'my views' 500 times in one post, but my 'answers' are only my personal perceptions on the matter and are not really answers to anything.

For that matter the questions being asked are simply personal perceptions and may not have any influence on the reality of this issue even if truly "answered".

On this matter one can only find his or her own 'answers', but hopefully this discussion will allow some people to discern their own views to be able to help find their personal 'answers'.

Confusingly,
Jonny
The difference between a Creationist and a believer in the Big Bang is that the Creationists admit they are operating on blind faith... Big Bang believers call their blind faith "theoretical mathematical variables" and claim to be scientists rather than the theologists they really are.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby starbiter » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:22 pm

Well stated Johnny.

Om, michael

My problem with this discussion is that EU is the opposite of this of this discussion. No faith or feelings required.

michael
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby bboyer » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:57 pm

starbiter wrote:My problem with this discussion is that EU is the opposite of this of this discussion. No faith or feelings required.


It is, however, a very appropriate topic for the EU's The Human Question forum, Michael.

Not that I have a problem with it, but I do consider the title of this particular topic betrays a certain "westernized," mechanical or material bias, representative of common western-style conditioned education. Personally, I don't view consciousness as something akin to some sort of materially produced commodity or value as the typical wording of the question might imply and with which western science (not to mention philosophy, religion et al) seems to approach most or all of its subjects of inquiry. It's entirely too cause-and-effect reductionist for my tastes, but - hey - that's just me and is, I suppose, highly irrelevant to anyone but myself. 8-)

I think the material and immaterial (such as material body and immaterial consciousness) are in a much more ... symbiotic ... relationship than a mere cause-and-effect production value could ever suggest. Like 2 ends of a stick or 2 sides of a coin; where one end or side is completely implicate in, and conditional upon, the presence of the other, not separate and distinct from one another in time nor space; arising together, one end, one side not causing the other except, perhaps, purely by consideration. Maybe not the best simile, prob'ly, but it'll have to do until I or someone more polished can come up with a better one.

EDIT: That came across a little snobbish I think, so I should clarify and make clear that I am also a "product" of westernized conditioned education and culture. And that over the past ... oh, 10 years or so ... since I have been more focused on un-learning, reinterpreting, and more focused self-inquiry into and questioning of the bulk of that conditioning, over this period it has been that I have learned my most valuable, meaningful "lessons."
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby CTJG 1986 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:58 pm

starbiter wrote:My problem with this discussion is that EU is the opposite of this of this discussion. No faith or feelings required.

michael


Absolutely agreed, and on that note just to clarify I am not proposing that universal consciousness 'powers' the universe but that universal consciousness is a product of the electrical nature of the universe - the energy spawns consciousness. It could be the other way and I don't rule it out but that is not my personal perception on the matter.

Other than a few things such as the study weighing a human at death and studies of people who have experienced NDE's and such there is little physical evidence to support any of this discussion on this matter. Hence if one is looking for 'hard science' this is not a proper issue to look for it in.

But this is 'The Human Question' forum and it is certainly part of human nature to theorize on such matters and it's not a bad thing to discuss it and try to understand it a bit better even if we stray from the accepted empirical methodology a bit.

When there is little of a physical nature to observe and study empiricism is not up to the task of understanding it any better than other scientific methodologies are.

But as Michael has mentioned just don't expect anyone else to be able to provide you with any answers as only you can do that.

If anything on this matter it would be better to seek more questions, not answers.

Jonny

Edit: More or less what Arc-us said, lol.
The difference between a Creationist and a believer in the Big Bang is that the Creationists admit they are operating on blind faith... Big Bang believers call their blind faith "theoretical mathematical variables" and claim to be scientists rather than the theologists they really are.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby StevenJay » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:00 pm

GaryN wrote:The few instances of feral children seem to show that after the age of 7 language becomes harder to acquire, and by 12 it is no longer possible to acquire. They then run only on the hard-wired, instinctive, action-reaction circuits. Are they conscious?

You're confusing consciousness with stunted intellect. The linguistics are still getting in the way here. :|
It's all about perception.
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