What produces consciousness?

What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

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What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Maddogkull1 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:12 pm

What produces consciousness?? Are there any theories that relate to the electric universe or plasma models that talk about consciousness? Is it just chemical reactions in our brain?
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:54 pm

Maddogkull1 wrote:What produces consciousness?? Are there any theories that relate to the electric universe or plasma models that talk about consciousness? Is it just chemical reactions in our brain?
There are at least two thousand years worth of theories.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby StevenJay » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:26 pm

Your priori assumption that Consciousness is a "product" immediately limits the possible answers.

As I perceive it, it is Consciousness that is doing all of the producing. It is the base state of all-that-is.

As an side, I notice you still don't seem to be volunteering any of your own observations, perceptions, or beliefs regarding any of the numerous disparate questions you've posed throughout this forum.

:| . . .
It's all about perception.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby GaryN » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:56 pm

Language allows for the arising of consciousness. Without language you may have awareness, as do animals, but none (O.K, maybe one or two might) pass the self-awareness (mirror) test.
Consciousness is an emergent feature, synergetic.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby elijahblackwood » Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:21 am

Are you writing a book Maddog?
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:10 am

elijahblackwood wrote:Are you writing a book Maddog?
Has he read a book :D
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:43 am

GaryN said,

[...]
Language allows for the arising of consciousness. Without language you may have awareness, as do animals, but none (O.K, maybe one or two might) pass the self-awareness (mirror) test.
Consciousness is an emergent feature, synergetic.


me again,

I had a dog for 15 years that seemed much more conscious than i. She just lacked a voice box. Her vocabulary was very large. If i said frisbee, there was no question about her consciousness.

Border Collies seem much smarter and conscious than their masters! When you see a Border Collie herding sheep, they obviously know geometry. I know people dumb as a post.

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I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
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And makes the seasons clear

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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:33 am

Hi Starbiter,
You are confusing consciousness with intelligence.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:15 am

Because i'm a semi literate gringo, you are probably correct Grey Cloud. I did look up the word though.

http://dictionary.weather.net/dictionary/conscious


Pronunciation: \ˈkän(t)-shəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin conscius, from com- + scire to know
Date: 1592
1 : perceiving, apprehending, or noticing with a degree of controlled thought or observation <was conscious that someone was watching>
2 archaic : sharing another's knowledge or awareness of an inward state or outward fact
3 : personally felt <conscious guilt>
4 : capable of or marked by thought, will, design, or perception
5 : self-conscious
6 : having mental faculties undulled by sleep, faintness, or stupor : awake <was conscious during the surgery>
7 : done or acting with critical awareness <a conscious effort to do better>
8 a : likely to notice, consider, or appraise <a bargain-conscious shopper> b : being concerned or interested <weight-conscious models> c : marked by strong feelings or notions <a race-conscious society>


I believe my dog met most of these definitions. She was also intelligent. And fearless. She launched herself into three junkyard dogs to save a puppy she didn't like. The puppy wasn't hers. All three dogs were larger than her. They went yelping away in defeat. Her valor puts me to shame. I would have been thinking of options, not acting.

You will probably say this act of thinking would be what gives me the right to claim consciousness exclusively amongst our animal friends. I'm really just a coward by comparison.

My dog seemed self aware to me. How do you quantify self awareness? She may have been thinking in soliloquies.



Getting back to the topic of the thread, electricity causes consciousness. We are electric while alive. I suppose this position is dogmatic. So be it.

michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:45 am

Hi Starbiter,
I'm not saying your dog was not conscious or intelligent - in fact it was both. Your dog, or any dog, may be more conscious than you or I, e.g. it may be more 'connected' to the Universe than we are. Intelligence is a different kettle of fish. There again, fish are conscious too. But are they as conscious or intelligent as dogs?

Getting back to the topic of the thread, electricity causes consciousness. We are electric while alive.
Define 'alive'. If you turn off a generator the electricity stops. The electricity is not the generator. Cause = generator; Effect = electricity.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:24 pm

Grey Cloud asked "define alive".



I would define alive as the opposite of death. Death = no electricity in the body. The real question for me is, are we connected to the currents that permeate the cosmos, electrically. I think so. Is our electric nature purely internal? Astronauts function in space in an electrical environment different from the surface of earth. Are they connected? Maybe neutrinos are involved. As an agnostic i love questions.


Concerning the intelligence of fish, you've got me there. I get no pleasure from outsmarting them the way my friends do. City people driving to the mountains to catch 30 farm raised trout released the day before.

Some dogs are certainly more intelligent than others. Great Danes and Border Collies seem like different species, not breeds. No offense to Great Danes.

michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:33 pm

Hi Starbiter,
No offense to Great Danes.
None taken, I'm sure. :)
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Location: NW UK

Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby stickwhistler » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:59 pm

I came across this several years ago,
and believe it may be interesting to the question this thread asks.

http://twm.co.nz/fabriconsc_boyd.html

A long article, but worth a read.
Scroll to the bottom of the page, then back up 8 paragraphs.

"Then they were able to observe that when the terminal patient died, that an electromagnetic impulse was picked up by the detection apparatus. (By E = mc ^2 , three grams of mass is equal to about 17,000,000 kilowatt/hours of electricity. Consciousness is a powerful thing.)"
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby starbiter » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:41 pm

Thanks for the link Stickwhistler. The quote about the electromagnetic impulse is thought provoking. I'm not sure if this implies an external electrical connection.

I've read about changes in heart transplant recipients. They seem to take on traits and memories of the donor. Their consciousness changes.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Cellular-Memori ... Recipients
[...]
The most stunning example of cellular memory was found in an eight year old girl who received the heart of a ten year old girl. The recipient was plagued after surgery with vivid nightmares about an attacker and a girl being murdered. After being brought to a psychiatrist her nightmares proved to be so vivid and real that the psychiatrist believed them to be genuine memories. As it turns out the ten year old whose heart she had just received was murdered and due to the recipients violent reoccurring dreams she was able to describe the events of that horrible encounter and the murderer so well that police soon apprehended, arrested, and convicted the killer.


http://www.springerlink.com/content/k51335l4k4676577/

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=organ+tr ... ef708ec445

I'm fairly gullible [Canadian plasma spirals], but this seems interesting. On the other hand, these reports could be hoaxes. Or not.

michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
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Re: What produces consciousness?

Unread postby elijahblackwood » Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:33 am

I'm fairly gullible [Canadian plasma spirals], but this seems interesting. On the other hand, these reports could be hoaxes. Or not.


Hi Starbiter

Have you ever looked at Neurocardiology?

Extract from Science of the Heart (institute of heartmath)
After extensive research, one of the early pioneers in neurocardiology, Dr. J. Andrew Armour, introduced the concept of a functional "heart brain" in 1991. His work revealed that the heart has a complex intrinsic nervous system that is sufficiently sophisticated to qualify as a "little brain" in its own right. The heart’s brain is an intricate network of several types of neurons, neurotransmitters, proteins and support cells like those found in the brain proper. Its elaborate circuitry enables it to act independently of the cranial brain – to learn, remember, and even feel and sense.


http://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart.html
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