Solar System and Planet Formation

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:58 am

starbiter wrote:Hello Sparky: It seems EU isn't your cup of tea. For others with an interest,

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... ornado.htm

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... ornado.htm

i tried, michael


Thanks, michael....i have read these....but this does not answer my simple questions...
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:06 am

starbiter wrote:One more time,

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/ ... kwards.htm

This TPOD seems more focused on your question Sparky.

michael



thank you, michael...i have read this also.....interesting.

It seems to answer one question with, "The planets may then be gravitationally captured in any configuration of orbit, although a prograde equatorial configuration is most likely."

evidence for argument against the earth orbiting saturian/sun with saturn in northern hemisphere interpretation....

is there no one who can answer my simple questions?

btw, i can't/don't do online videos...
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:15 am

Hi Sparky,
cultish mumbo jumbo
cult members
the cult
These are your phrases. You turn up here with a badly written and ill-formulated question and when you are given some friendly advice as to where to seek answers you reply using provocative language.
If you are going to reject the EU explanation to your questions then could you not at least explain why you do so, perhaps by mentioning some of the mainstream science which you think contradicts or disproves the EU explanation?
Or are you just trolling? I ask because we do occassionly get such sad creatures shambling through here.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby starbiter » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:19 am

Hi Sparky: My friend admitted there wasn't much available information about the technical aspects of the polar configuration on line.

He admitted that he's frustrated because people in general aren't familiarizing themselves with the basics of EU before taking strong positions on EU issues. Hence the comment about homework.

The TPOD about Herbig-Haro stars shows polar configurations are possible in a Electric Universe.

I'm open to the Polar Configuration, but not married to it. Very smart EU folks [much smarter than i] are comfortable with the polar configuration, so i must keep an open mind. But EU doesn't rise or fall over these issues, IMHO. Dr. Velikovsky was strongly opposed to the Polar Configuration, from what i've been told. Your in good company having questions concerning the shish kabob. Dr. Velikovsky was a pioneer in proposing a Saturnian System, on the other hand.


michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:24 pm

Grey Cloud wrote:Hi Sparky, yada, yada, yada.


Having a hard time finding someone to argue with?

And you obviously still have a problem.

Why not quit your own forum stalking of me with immature, illogical, and typically hypocritical posts ...your immature, clumsy attempts to manipulate are tiresome, and you offer no EU insight!..
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:14 pm

starbiter wrote:Hi Sparky: My friend admitted there wasn't much available information about the technical aspects of the polar configuration on line.

He admitted that he's frustrated because people in general aren't familiarizing themselves with the basics of EU before taking strong positions on EU issues. Hence the comment about homework.

The TPOD about Herbig-Haro stars shows polar configurations are possible in a Electric Universe.

I'm open to the Polar Configuration, but not married to it. Very smart EU folks [much smarter than i] are comfortable with the polar configuration, so i must keep an open mind. But EU doesn't rise or fall over these issues, IMHO. Dr. Velikovsky was strongly opposed to the Polar Configuration, from what i've been told. Your in good company having questions concerning the shish kabob. Dr. Velikovsky was a pioneer in proposing a Saturnian System, on the other hand.


michael


I read velikovsky many decades ago...was impressed....

i can understand your friend"s frustration...i get frustrated too, waiting for a page to load and then finding out there isn't much info. there!

And what is basic EU to one may be advanced for another....i see a lot of people using terms authoritatively that they probably only vaguely understand..Much of this EU is a bit like black hole theory, take it on faith that the universe is looking and acting like a lab experiment or math model.

Saturian system may or may not have happened...
i think it is a distraction from EU unless there can be found another such configuration of sun and planet.
I;ll reread the Herbig-Haro theory again....

As for "smart people", there are smart people on all sides...smart people can hold some really dumb ideas, and develop complex rationalizations to defend them!..And it is smart people who, if psychotic, are able to acquire wealth and power in evil ways, with no remorse. And smart people can be very immature and thin skinned...

Patterns! Humans see patterns...People see what they are looking for...We don't know what we really are seeing in far space through a powerful telescope. we just go with a working theory until a better one comes along. EU seems to better explain many things.
But, even if i were to adopt it as the best working theory, i wouldn't be on a mission for god to take it to the world. I have faith in science to sort it out eventually.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:27 pm

Sparky wrote:
Grey Cloud wrote:Hi Sparky, yada, yada, yada.


Having a hard time finding someone to argue with?

And you obviously still have a problem.

Why not quit your own forum stalking of me with immature, illogical, and typically hypocritical posts ...your immature, clumsy attempts to manipulate are tiresome, and you offer no EU insight!..

:D
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby starbiter » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:54 pm

Hola Sparky: If a planet was in a polar configuration, it might not cause a wobble in the star it was connected to. It's the wobble we detect in stars which implies the planet. I believe this is the case, unless there have been breakthroughs i'm not aware of. So proof might not be available until we have sensors that can discern actual planets.

Saturn Theory is certainly part of the big EU picture. Most EU insiders seem sympathetic. There are fewer Polar Configuration people, but they would probably be a majority. EU is like a buffet. You don't need to consume everything. Embrace the embraceable parts.

There is a tendency to invoke Saturn Theory within the EU community instead of the events described in Worlds in Collision to reconcile geology. Dr. Velikovsky is not in vogue. Never has been. He is toxic.

I suggest re-reading WiC. It keeps getting better. Try to think literally when you read of dust and wind. If you have a spare month, try reading this thread about mountains and duning.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2780

Venus rocks, michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:21 pm

starbiter wrote:Hola Sparky: If a planet was in a polar configuration, it might not cause a wobble in the star it was connected to. It's the wobble we detect in stars which implies the planet. I believe this is the case, unless there have been breakthroughs i'm not aware of. So proof might not be available until we have sensors that can discern actual planets.

Saturn Theory is certainly part of the big EU picture. Most EU insiders seem sympathetic. There are fewer Polar Configuration people, but they would probably be a majority. EU is like a buffet. You don't need to consume everything. Embrace the embraceable parts.

There is a tendency to invoke Saturn Theory within the EU community instead of the events described in Worlds in Collision to reconcile geology. Dr. Velikovsky is not in vogue. Never has been. He is toxic.

I suggest re-reading WiC. It keeps getting better. Try to think literally when you read of dust and wind. If you have a spare month, try reading this thread about mountains and duning.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2780

Venus rocks, michael



Thanks, Michael....

With no gravitational connection, only the electrical, i don't know how such a system would be detected....such a system may be possible, but i think it is an area within EU that is highly speculative and is more of a distraction, especially when more obvious and provable parts of the theory are being rebuffed and ignored.

At worst, offering such a conclusion, Herbig-Haro, is an ad hoc argument for the saturn/sun model, much as EU charges against using dark matter/energy, and black holes to explain observations which do not fit standard model theory.

I don't see how gravity would not be a factor, thus a more normal orbit around the saturn/sun. What the myths are speaking of is also highly speculative, and a distraction from EU theory.

Embracing the embraceable is good....The problem in promoting the basic theory is that so many push the unembraceable fringe as necessary belief!..But, it will all sort itself out...

As for my studies, there is very little that will effect my life now. Black hole or no, makes no difference. I have little or no investment in a cosmological theory, so i look at them all. The main thing effecting my life right now is this god awful heat!..near 100F...mowed my yard...just about died!

thank you..
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby mharratsc » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:56 pm

Sparky, you had stated:

[
quote]Earth wouldn't be in a gravitational orbit. It would be aligned along the axis of the Birkeland current that powers the entire brown dwarf system...like knots in the jet of a Herbig-Haro star.


Well, michael, thank you, but your friends explanation is more like
cultish mumbo jumbo , using obscure terms to confuse and impress the cult members ,not clarify and explain to someone outside the cult... it makes no sense at all from my perspective, and did not directly address my questions.....and his condescending remark about homework exposes his own shortcomings...thanks, but no thanks.![/quote]

To this- I pointed out that Birkeland currents were not mumbo-jumbo.

You replied:

I did not call plasma physics mumbo jumbo....reread what i said!..unless you are a "true believer" and only comprehend what you think you know.


Birkeland currents and kind instabilities intrinsic to them are indeed 'plasma physics'... so I'm unsure where you were heading with this.

The whole bit about "true believer" and "comprehend what you think you know" (oxymoron?) seemed to be an half-hearted attempt to manipulate me into backing up into a more non-threatening position? Much akin to what you stated to Grey Cloud:

immature, illogical, and typically hypocritical posts ...your immature, clumsy attempts to manipulate are tiresome


Sorry, but you came busting in here like you were going to liberate all of us dummies from this silly cult you read about on BadAstronomy or somesuch... really was sort of insulting to my intelligence.

Hope you are finding some understanding of your own with your continuing research into the EU/PC paradigm.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:08 am

mharratsc wrote:Sparky, you had stated:

[
quote]Earth wouldn't be in a gravitational orbit. It would be aligned along the axis of the Birkeland current that powers the entire brown dwarf system...like knots in the jet of a Herbig-Haro star.


Well, michael, thank you, but your friends explanation is more like
cultish mumbo jumbo , using obscure terms to confuse and impress the cult members ,not clarify and explain to someone outside the cult... it makes no sense at all from my perspective, and did not directly address my questions.....and his condescending remark about homework exposes his own shortcomings...thanks, but no thanks.!


To this- I pointed out that Birkeland currents were not mumbo-jumbo.

You replied:

I did not call plasma physics mumbo jumbo....reread what i said!..unless you are a "true believer" and only comprehend what you think you know.


Birkeland currents and kind instabilities intrinsic to them are indeed 'plasma physics'... so I'm unsure where you were heading with this.

The whole bit about "true believer" and "comprehend what you think you know" (oxymoron?) seemed to be an half-hearted attempt to manipulate me into backing up into a more non-threatening position? Much akin to what you stated to Grey Cloud:

immature, illogical, and typically hypocritical posts ...your immature, clumsy attempts to manipulate are tiresome


Sorry, but you came busting in here like you were going to liberate all of us dummies from this silly cult you read about on BadAstronomy or somesuch... really was sort of insulting to my intelligence.

Hope you are finding some understanding of your own with your continuing research into the EU/PC paradigm.[/quote]


You are not making an attempt to comprehend what i said, and you have developed a defensive and presumptuous position.

I agree that Birkeland currents,Herbig-Haro and other plasma phenomenon exist...

You nor anyone else is a threat..i respond as i see it from what little evidence a person gives me.

Reread what i said...break down the sentence, nouns, verbs, etc. as comprehend that i made no overall characterization of EU!

otherwise, you are appearing as a "true believer" and i will not respond to those who make no attempt to comprehend what i have said and insist in wallowing in their delusional presumptions of me.

Those who have studied EU see plasma effects everywhere. I have studied cults and see cultish behavior everywhere, even other sciences!..It has nothing to do with intelligence.!..

Ridding oneself of cultish thinking has more to do with overcoming the ego, which may be very difficult if it is genetic based thinking.

Take it or leave it, i don't care!...You have EU true believers that are out to save the world with their knowledge...good luck!
Science will work it all out eventually, without me and most of the people here.

I may not be as intelligent as you nor so quick to learn, but i have picked up some interesting information here, in spite of the attacks of those with fragile egos and inability to see beyond their narrow understanding. I am making an effort to see beyond my narrow undersanding, but who's lying eyes should i believe, yours or mine? :D
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:30 am

starbiter wrote:Sparky asked,


nick c

[...]
"-the Earth was originally a satellite of a small brown dwarf star-"

"-they shared their axes of rotation, giving the brown dwarf the appearance of a large stationary orb over the North pole"


"Plasma cosmology and the Electric Universe provide the mechanisms and supporting evidence that lend credence to such outlandish claims."

Sparky asked,
How is that?...From what i have read it would seem to disprove the 90deg tilt of the earth... with normal induced rotation axes 90deg to plane of orbit.....not sure how earth shared axes of rotation with saturn/sun?....Our axes wanders a bit.....for sun to appear as stationary would not the earth have to be in geosynchronous orbit with a more normal axes of rotation, not the 90deg tilt which would not allow a geosynchronous orbit? ...what do i not understand?...thanks
Sparky

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I asked a friend for a response to Sparky's question. The answer is below.


from a friend,
[...]

Earth wouldn't be in a gravitational orbit. It would be aligned along the axis of the Birkeland current that powers the entire brown dwarf system...like knots in the jet of a Herbig-Haro star.

[Read Holoscience posts & the tpod archive. (Also known as doing homework.

me again,

I hope this helps. Please take my friends advice.

michael



Answer N0. 2

WHAT??!!!

Eliminating gravity completely by an alignment of Saturn/sun with earth on a plasma axle!..Sounds ad hoc to me...trying desperately to explain an "interpretation of Myths", which may or may not be a good interpretation...This new information is really bizarre!..And it seems to raise more questions about solar system evolution...I'll need some more time to think and study the probability of it.

Thank you, michael, and your friend....I'll try to digest this and see if it stays down, along with the black holes, multiple universes, and quantum theory.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:42 am

starbiter wrote:Hola Sparky: If a planet was in a polar configuration, it might not cause a wobble in the star it was connected to. It's the wobble we detect in stars which implies the planet. I believe this is the case, unless there have been breakthroughs i'm not aware of. So proof might not be available until we have sensors that can discern actual planets.

Saturn Theory is certainly part of the big EU picture. Most EU insiders seem sympathetic. There are fewer Polar Configuration people, but they would probably be a majority. EU is like a buffet. You don't need to consume everything. Embrace the embraceable parts.

There is a tendency to invoke Saturn Theory within the EU community instead of the events described in Worlds in Collision to reconcile geology. Dr. Velikovsky is not in vogue. Never has been. He is toxic.

I suggest re-reading WiC. It keeps getting better. Try to think literally when you read of dust and wind. If you have a spare month, try reading this thread about mountains and duning.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2780

Venus rocks, michael



Michael, i was listening to an astronomer talk about detecting planets as they passed between their sun and earth...but that would not work for non-orbiting arrangement that we are talking about unless the pole was pointed at earth...

i read some of you trip, looking for plasma produced geological formations...it sounds like big sand blasting with mega lightening...
inhospitable..! :cry:
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:05 am

Hello Sparky: During the proposed polar alignment between Saturn and Earth, the Sun would not be a factor, from what i've read. The presence of the Sun broke up the Saturnian System, possibly disrupting the polar alignment, or not.

On the other hand, when you stated Saturn/sun, you might have meant, when Saturn was the energy source for Earth.

This issue still seems like a digression. No definitive answers will be forthcoming. Just questions, at least from my perspective. Venus is different. The effects of Venus encounter with the Earth are on the surface of our planet for all to see.

michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
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Re: An Answer for Sparky

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:38 am

starbiter wrote:Hello Sparky: During the proposed polar alignment between Saturn and Earth, the Sun would not be a factor, from what i've read. The presence of the Sun broke up the Saturnian System, possibly disrupting the polar alignment, or not.

On the other hand, when you stated Saturn/sun, you might have meant, when Saturn was the energy source for Earth.

This issue still seems like a digression. No definitive answers will be forthcoming. Just questions, at least from my perspective. Venus is different. The effects of Venus encounter with the Earth are on the surface of our planet for all to see.

michael



yes, Saturn as earth's sun....

here is an interesting article...talks about detection of planets gas and plasm clouds, etc: http://www.physorg.com/news199594786.html

What makes earth any safer now than when saturn, mars, and venus were roaming about?..Could it all happen again?
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

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