Earth/Moon Electrical Interaction

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Earth/Moon Electrical Interaction

Unread postby jtrimper » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:48 pm

The magnetosphere forms like a teardrop
"downwind " of the sun's radiation.
Does it follow that in that shaded area
the electrical presence of lightning on the surface
would be less active?

And what about the tip of the elongated teardrop:
How far does Earth's extend?
Is there something to be observed there?


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Earth/Moon Electrical Interaction

Unread postby Solar » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:51 pm

Kind of a large question Jtrimper. There are several electro-plasma dynamics in earth's magnetosphere (more properly Langmuir sheath) and extending into it's magnetotail. Current sheets, ion beams, the formation of plasmoids near the tail, the neutral sheet, magnetopause, etc.

Earth’s magnetosphere extends about 65,000 km on the dayside but more than 10 times further (beyond the Moon’s orbit) on the nightside.


Simply be careful of the "magnetic reconnection" concept. It is an attempt to say that "magnetic lines of force" which are imaginary and used for illustrative purposes only, are releasing energy in the tail region while the electrical component (that always accompanies the magnetic force) is neglected. You can also google both magnetoslphere and magnetotail which will provide you with the current 'mainstream' ideas regarding the electro-plasma dynamics in question. For some balance I would recommend comparing those ideas with corresponding information from the Thunderbolt TPOD's and/or the "News and Views" section of Holoscience.
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MOONDUST IN THE WIND:

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:52 am

Moondust in the solar current....wind indeed. LOL>
MOONDUST IN THE WIND:
Unlike Earth, the Moon has no magnetic field to ward off charged particles from the Sun. Solar wind blows directly onto the lunar surface. Researchers have long suspected that electrons in the solar wind become embedded in moondust, causing the dust to "charge up" and giving the Moon a very bad case of static cling.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... edmoon.jpg

Strange things can happen when moondust gathers charge. For one, the dust might rise up and, propelled by electrostatic repulsion, rush in a diaphanous wind across the lunar surface. Imagine, dust storms on an airless world with no weather!

But it could be even stranger than that. NASA researchers have discovered that moondust peppered with solar wind electrons gain not a negative but a positive charge. This unexpected and counterintuitive reaction makes it hard to predict what is really happening to dust on moon.

Get the full story from Science@NASA.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... hewind.htm
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Re: MOONDUST IN THE WIND:

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:40 pm

I might, once again, add to that the "prior art" listed below.

(Moon Fountains)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005 ... ntains.htm

(A DYNAMIC FOUNTAIN MODEL FOR LUNAR DUST.)
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2005/pdf/1899.pdf

&

(Moon Storms)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005 ... storms.htm

I think I'd mentioned these somewhere on "Thunderbolts Forum 1.0," which is sadly lost, but not forgotten, nor completely gone (still working on that, as time permits!)...

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Re: MOONDUST IN THE WIND:

Unread postby junglelord » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:27 am

Would it not support the EU Theory because its positively charged and not negitive as they expected. Would we not expect it to be charged positive based on the Anode Sun and its Wind (COUGH Current)?
:D
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Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby junglelord » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:00 am

Well its a lot better then calling it wind....LOL.

The Moon and the Magnetotail
April 17, 2008: Behold the full Moon. Ancient craters and frozen lava seas lie motionless under an airless sky of profound quiet. It's a slow-motion world where even a human footprint may last millions of years. Nothing ever seems to happen there.

Right?

Wrong. NASA-supported scientists have realized that something does happen every month when the Moon gets a lashing from Earth's magnetic tail.

"Earth's magnetotail extends well beyond the orbit of the Moon and, once a month, the Moon orbits through it," says Tim Stubbs, a University of Maryland scientist working at the Goddard Space Flight Center. "This can have consequences ranging from lunar 'dust storms' to electrostatic discharges."

Yes, Earth does have a magnetic tail. It is an extension of the same familiar magnetic field we experience when using a Boy Scout compass. Our entire planet is enveloped in a bubble of magnetism, which springs from a molten dynamo in Earth's core. Out in space, the solar wind presses against this bubble and stretches it, creating a long "magnetotail" in the downwind direction:

Anyone can tell when the Moon is inside the magnetotail. Just look: "If the Moon is full, it is inside the magnetotail," says Stubbs. "The Moon enters the magnetotail three days before it is full and takes about six days to cross and exit on the other side."

It is during those six days that strange things can happen.

During the crossing, the Moon comes in contact with a gigantic "plasma sheet" of hot charged particles trapped in the tail. The lightest and most mobile of these particles, electrons, pepper the Moon's surface and give the Moon a negative charge.

On the Moon's dayside this effect is counteracted to a degree by sunlight: UV photons knock electrons back off the surface, keeping the build-up of charge at relatively low levels. But on the nightside, in the cold lunar dark, electrons accumulate and voltages can climb to hundreds or thousands of volts.

Walking across the dusty charged-up lunar terrain, astronauts may find themselves crackling with electricity like a sock pulled out of a hot dryer. Touching another astronaut, a doorknob, a piece of sensitive electronics—any of these simple actions could produce an unwelcome zap. "Proper grounding is strongly recommended," advises Stubbs.

The ground, meanwhile, may leap into the sky. There is compelling evidence (see, e.g., the Surveyor 7 image below) that fine particles of moondust, when sufficiently charged-up, actually float above the lunar surface. This could create a temporary nighttime atmosphere of dust ready to blacken spacesuits, clog machinery, scratch faceplates (moondust is very abrasive) and generally make life difficult for astronauts.

Stranger still, moondust might gather itself into a sort of diaphanous wind. Drawn by differences in global charge accumulation, floating dust would naturally fly from the strongly-negative nightside to the weakly-negative dayside. This "dust storm" effect would be strongest at the Moon's terminator, the dividing line between day and night.

Much of this is pure speculation, Stubbs cautions. No one can say for sure what happens on the Moon when the magnetotail hits, because no one has been there at the crucial time. "Apollo astronauts never landed on a full Moon and they never experienced the magnetotail."

The best direct evidence comes from NASA's Lunar Prospector spacecraft, which orbited the Moon in 1998-99 and monitored many magnetotail crossings. During some crossings, the spacecraft sensed big changes in the lunar nightside voltage, jumping "typically from -200 V to -1000 V," says Jasper Halekas of UC Berkeley who has been studying the decade-old data.

"It is important to note," says Halekas, "that the plasma sheet (where all the electrons come from) is a very dynamic structure. The plasma sheet is in a constant state of motion, flapping up and down all the time. So as the Moon orbits through the magnetotail, the plasma sheet can sweep across it over and over again. Depending on how dynamic things are, we can encounter the plasma sheet many times during a single pass through the magnetotail with encounters lasting anywhere from minutes to hours or even days."

"As a result, you can imagine how dynamic the charging environment on the Moon is. The Moon can be just sitting there in a quiet region of the magnetotail and then suddenly all this hot plasma goes sweeping by causing the nightside potential to spike to a kilovolt. Then it drops back again just as quickly."

The roller coaster of charge would be at its most dizzying during solar and geomagnetic storms. "That is a very dynamic time for the plasma sheet and we need to study what happens then," he says.

What happens then? Next-generation astronauts are going to find out. NASA is returning to the Moon in the decades ahead and plans to establish an outpost for long-term lunar exploration. It turns out they'll be exploring the magnetotail, too.

Solar Wind vs. Magnetotail: Earth's magnetotail isn't the only source of plasma to charge the Moon. Solar wind can provide charged particles, too; indeed, most of the time, the solar wind is the primary source. But when the Moon enters the magnetotail, the solar wind is pushed back and the plasma sheet takes over. The plasma sheet is about 10 times hotter than the solar wind and that gives it more "punch" when it comes to altering the charge balance of the Moon's surface. Two million degree electrons in the plasma sheet race around like crazy and many of them hit the Moon's surface. Solar wind electrons are relatively cool at only 140 thousand degrees, and fewer of them zip all the way down to the shadowed surface of the Moon's nightside.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... totail.htm
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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:17 am

Image

2 MILLION DEGREES ?!
Never realized space could be so hot.


Solar Wind vs. Magnetotail: Earth's magnetotail isn't the only source of plasma to charge the Moon. Solar wind can provide charged particles, too; indeed, most of the time, the solar wind is the primary source. But when the Moon enters the magnetotail, the solar wind is pushed back and the plasma sheet takes over. The plasma sheet is about 10 times hotter than the solar wind and that gives it more "punch" when it comes to altering the charge balance of the Moon's surface. Two million degree electrons in the plasma sheet race around like crazy and many of them hit the Moon's surface. Solar wind electrons are relatively cool at only 140 thousand degrees, and fewer of them zip all the way down to the shadowed surface of the Moon's nightside.


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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby Ion01 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:28 am

Hey! It looks like they are finally starting to get it. No if they can just apply that same knowledge elsewhere, such as the winds and storms on earth, then we can really get somewhere! :D
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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby junglelord » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:39 pm

On the subject of Apollo Moon Landings.

Subject: (7) There's no dust on the lander footpads

Rebuttal
The Moon has no atmosphere in which eddies and such can cause
the dust to swirl and "float around". Dust is "shot" away when
there is no atmosphere. Therefore it is difficult to say
whether the foot pads would have been covered in dust with any
certainty. The chances are that some hollows and crevices will
contain trapped dust but all of the images I have seen look
remarkably clean. Nothing conclusive here in my opinion though.


On the contrary moon dust does rise and swirl as we have just read. There certainly is electrostatic charge to consider and the LM would be charged with a plasma sheath when in motion...which would leave it charged when it landed. Since we have just seen that charge and moon dust are tied together...Houston we have a problem...
;)
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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:39 pm

Ion01 wrote:Hey! It looks like they are finally starting to get it. No if they can just apply that same knowledge elsewhere, such as the winds and storms on earth, then we can really get somewhere! :D


The long slow slog continues. Nature will inevitably force them to RECOGNIZE!

Granted they're still calling it the "magnetic tail" or the "magnetotail." But they're not acknowledging that currents are required to sustain a dynamic magnetic field in a plasma.

Should really be calling it the plasma sheath or plasma tail.

Likewise, they're still calling Birkeland currents "magnetic ropes," "flux ropes," "flux tubes," anything and everything to not directly say "electric current" or credit Birkeland's contribution. Granted, NASA's page gave the most direct bit of evidence / recognition of the electric currents involved:

(30 kV battery in space; pumps 650,000 Amp current into the Arctic!)
BatteryInSpace30kV.jpg
Original caption: "Flux Ropes Power the Magnetosphere! THEMIS discovered a flux rope pumping a 650,000 Amp current into the Arctic."
BatteryInSpace30kV.jpg (12.88 KiB) Viewed 13195 times


From the multimedia page:

(Multimedia for the Press Event for THEMIS)
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/themi ... multi.html

accompanying the press release:

(NASA Spacecraft Make New Discoveries About Northern Lights)
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/themi ... ights.html

A later article mentioning the "flux ropes" (*cough* "Birkeland currents!"):

(Spring Is Aurora Season)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... spring.htm

Not that I believe in conspiracies or whatever (maybe they really are just that ignorant?), but it seems like they don't want to make the connection with Birkeland, 'cause Birkeland talked about electric currents in space. If they have to cop to electric currents in space, they have to admit to charge separation and/or circuits in space. Then, if they have to consider either circuits or charge separation as well as interaction between remote bodies (sun-Earth interactions), then they may well have to start talking in plasma / electrical terms about EVERYthing. Or at least considering the implications and overturning age-old assumptions about "charge neutrality" (quasi-neutrality, really, which isn't the same thing as COMPLETE neutrality), empty space, etc. etc. It will, on the one hand, "messy-up" their clockwork universe. But, on the other hand, it may simplify certain assumptions and interactions, by reducing them to known laws of electromagnetism, plasma, etc. As opposed to hidden "nuclear dynamos" or whatever. They really are sitting atop a collapsing house of cards. If one edifice comes down, the rest may follow suit shortly.

I tend to think that hammering on the correct identification of "Birkeland currents," identifying "flux ropes" with their "source currents," and pointing back to Birkeland's work as the way forward is the way to go. The man was something of a genius, ahead of his time. Not saying he didn't get anything wrong. But he got A LOT right... His books seems to have a lot of implications for the sunspot cycle, for the Io in eclipse images, possibly for planetary ring system formation (if not maintenance?).

Maybe it's just me; maybe not...
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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:50 pm

junglelord wrote:


Might as well point to the other links available at the end of the article, several of which I've pointed to before:

MGmirkin wrote:I might, once again, add to that the "prior art" listed below.

(Moon Fountains)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005 ... ntains.htm

(A DYNAMIC FOUNTAIN MODEL FOR LUNAR DUST.)
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2005/pdf/1899.pdf

&

(Moon Storms)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005 ... storms.htm

I think I'd mentioned these somewhere on "Thunderbolts Forum 1.0," which is sadly lost, but not forgotten, nor completely gone (still working on that, as time permits!)...


As well as:

(Moondust in the Wind; also previously mentioned in the thread mentioned above)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008 ... hewind.htm

(The Smell of Moondust)
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006 ... ondust.htm

(The Smell of Space)
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/cre ... cles4.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space ... index.html
http://spaceports.blogspot.com/2006/09/ ... ookie.html

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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:10 am

Little is exposed or admitted to at the public level about the EU and Plasma Science and Plasma History because of National Security, cough!
:?
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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby Ion01 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:16 am

The long slow slog continues. Nature will inevitably force them to RECOGNIZE!

Granted they're still calling it the "magnetic tail" or the "magnetotail." But they're not acknowledging that currents are required to sustain a dynamic magnetic field in a plasma.

Should really be calling it the plasma sheath or plasma tail.

Likewise, they're still calling Birkeland currents "magnetic ropes," "flux ropes," "flux tubes," anything and everything to not directly say "electric current" or credit Birkeland's contribution.


True, it is extremely frustrating that they discover "new" things, which are not new at all, and don't give people like Birkeland credit. However, articles like this, and some of the others you referenced, make it easier for us to educate the public about people like Birkeland. People are a lot more willing to make a change in terms used and who is given credit that to completelly change there view on how the whole universe works and ultimately their "faith" in people like NASA. (This statement is made in reference to people who make statements like, "if thats true why doesn't NASA believe it?" as though they are unwilling to look at the data and science and judge for themselves. Thankfully, there are also a lot of people like those here and many others who have yet to discover this site who do analize the data themselves and I am fully confident that ultimately the truth of no only how the universe works but who discovered it will be brought to light.)
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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:22 am

Ion01 wrote:True, it is extremely frustrating that they discover "new" things, which are not new at all, and don't give people like Birkeland credit. However, articles like this, and some of the others you referenced, make it easier for us to educate the public about people like Birkeland.


Precisely the reason why I want to start some kind of searchable archive of just such articles, papers, books, etc As a resource to those who prefer the WHOLE story rather than just the "official" story or "party line". Haven't quite gotten there just yet... Still working on ye olde reconstruction of "Thunderbolts Forum 1.0" and bogged down at work. But I hope to eventually log & catalog as many interesting links and useful papers as possible.

Still have to find a good way about it, though...

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Re: Electric Currents Between the Moon and Earth

Unread postby nick c » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:17 pm

True, it is extremely frustrating that they discover "new" things, which are not new at all, and don't give people like Birkeland credit.


And when they finally (don't hold your breath) accept "magnetic ropes" as Birkeland currents, and discard other euphemisms like "solar wind," "magnetosphere," "hot gases," etc, and replace them with, electric current, plasmasphere, plasma etc. they will say..."but that's been known for a long time!"

"Is it not the case that at first a new idea is regarded as not true, and later, when accepted, as not being new?" I.Velikovsky 1952


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