Latest from Enceladus

[Florian]

Enceladus is an active (understand growing) moon as proven by the very important diapir (upwelling) at the south pole:

[junglelord]

I find Kaku's glib and smug explanation of "gravity squeezing" laughable and negligent, as he sums it all up just like that, with the smiling and impressionable anchor person high-fiving him as if he's figured it all out. Kaku is sort of the voice of pop-astronomy today, a higher-profile physicist --with the layperson just in awe and amazement over whatever he says.

"Gravity squeezing" ..... LOL okay.

That's one of the dumbest explanations I've yet heard since this phenomenon was discovered by Cassini several years ago.

yes he is, and your understanding of the "staging" of these talks and the "dissemination" of this "disinformation" is right on, high five for us...we see the brainwashing and refuse to be scrubbed.


One member just made a thread about the same thing, gases do not coalese, they diffuse.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3100
"gravity squeezing" indeed!

[solrey]

So florian, this "upwelling" of a growing moon only occurs at the south pole...how, why only there?

Nice image though. Enceladus South Pole Diapir resembles the hexagon on Saturns North pole.







Instead of "upwelling" it looks more like an imprint of a diocotron instability with a similar asymmetry as the laboratory example in the middle image above.

[viscount aero]

I find Kaku's glib and smug explanation of "gravity squeezing" laughable and negligent, as he sums it all up just like that, with the smiling and impressionable anchor person high-fiving him as if he's figured it all out. Kaku is sort of the voice of pop-astronomy today, a higher-profile physicist --with the layperson just in awe and amazement over whatever he says.

"Gravity squeezing" ..... LOL okay.

That's one of the dumbest explanations I've yet heard since this phenomenon was discovered by Cassini several years ago.

yes he is, and your understanding of the "staging" of these talks and the "dissemination" of this "disinformation" is right on, high five for us...we see the brainwashing and refuse to be scrubbed.


One member just made a thread about the same thing, gases do not coalese, they diffuse.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3100
"gravity squeezing" indeed!

yes and moreover if something like this, related to astrophysics, is on a national/controlled-media-propagandist television show, appearing particularly like this as a brief segment, as an aside to the top story, with overly glib and unexamined statements *with no rebuttal given by another expert with another view*--then whatever information that is purported to be true during the brief segment with the moronic anchor person *cannot possibly be true anyway*

[StevenJay]

As I've said repeatedly, these sound-bite TV segments and idiotic press releases have nothing to do with relating any sort of new-found knowledge, but rather, with reinforcing the foundation of the "church."

[junglelord]

yes and moreover if something like this, related to astrophysics, is on a national/controlled-media-propagandist television show, appearing particularly like this as a brief segment, as an aside to the top story, with overly glib and unexamined statements *with no rebuttal given by another expert with another view*--then whatever information that is purported to be true during the brief segment with the moronic anchor person *cannot possibly be true anyway*

Yeah, funny how a show on UFO's always has a overly glibb debunker.


Its all part of the brainwashing.
Psychological warfare.

[viscount aero]

As I've said repeatedly, these sound-bite TV segments and idiotic press releases have nothing to do with relating any sort of new-found knowledge, but rather, with reinforcing the foundation of the "church."

+100 correct

All it is is repeat refrain, chapter and verse from the text of the brainwashed. They appear every so often to keep the deception and lies of omission fresh and new all over again

To add, to revisit the statement he makes "gravity squeezing"... explains absolutely nothing.

[viscount aero]

.... offers nothing new in his statements!

What has "changed the game" per Kaku's statements? ---------> absolutely nothing

[jjohnson]

In an Associated Press story in today's newspaper, titled "Atom Smasher to Help Reveal "the Beginning" ":

"This is a huge step toward unraveling Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 1 - what happened in the beginning" physicist Michio Kaku told the Associated Press.

This is a Genesis machine. It'll help create the most glorious event in the history of the universe."

And so on with superlatives galore. Strange words from a scientist, although I understand that he is probably speaking allegorically to help the more spiritual minded to absorb 'scientific' information.

Another remark in the same article from Phil Schewe, "a spokesman for the American Institute of Physics':

This is the Jurassic Park for particle physicists... Some of the particles they are making now - or are about to make - haven't been around for 14 billion years.

I hope that they remember the mathematician played by Jeff Goldblum, versed in chaos theory.

I wonder if they will connect the dots and notice that it takes electric currents and their associated electric and magnetic fields to make all this happen in the first place (so to speak).
JJ

[viscount aero]

You would think that if the scientific community wanted to educate the layperson, to provide context for breaking news stories, then they would impart the brief note that in order for magnetic fields to exist there must be the presence of electricity.

[StefanR]

Enceladus leaves plasma bubbles in its wake

Measurements from the Cassini Plasma Spectrometer (CAPS) and the Magnetospheric IMaging Instrument (MIMI) show that both the moon and its plume are continuously soaking up the plasma, which rushes past at around 30 kilometres per second, leaving a cavity downstream. In addition, the most energetic particles which zoom up and down Saturn’s magnetic field lines are swept up, leaving a much larger void in the high energy plasma. Material from Enceladus, both dust and gas, is also being charged and forming new plasma.

Now, Ms Kanani and a team at UCL’s Mullard Space Science Laboratory, have discovered mysterious spiky features in the CAPS data that present a complex picture of readjustment downstream from Enceladus.

“Eventually the plasma closes the gap downstream from Enceladus but our observations show that this isn’t happening in a smooth, orderly fashion. We are seeing spiky features in the plasma that last between a few tens of seconds and a minute or two. We think that these might represent bubbles of low energy particles formed as the plasma fills the gap from different directions,” said Ms Kanani.

Since Cassini arrived at Saturn, it has been building up a picture of the vital and unexpected role that Enceladus plays in Saturn’s magnetosphere.

“Enceladus is the source of most of the plasma in Saturn’s magnetosphere, with ionised water and oxygen originating from the vents forming a big torus of plasma that surrounds Saturn. We may see these spiky features in the wake of Saturn’s other moons as they interact with the plasma but, to date, we have only studied Enceladus in sufficient detail,” said Ms Kanani.

http://www.physorg.com/news190536929.html

[MGmirkin]

Evidence For Enceladus Link To Saturn Ionosphere: Does The Plume Have An Auroral Footprint?

Hey, didn't I more-or-less beat them to this question? That paper was from Sep09. My article was from Aug08. My 8/08 trumps their 9/09! Hilarity ensues...

(An Enceladus-Saturn Electrical Connection?)
http://thunderbolts.info/thunderblogs/a ... ection.htm

In December 2000, a Hubble news release stated that several moons have a “footprint” in Jupiter’s aurora, including (at a minimum) Io, Ganymede and Europa. It would be unsurprising to find that other moons may have very similar auroral footprints and ties to the electrical circuitry of the larger planet they orbit.

Article based on observations of the temperature profile and speculation based upon known characteristics of the Io-Jupiter interaction. w00t for generalizing knowledge from one domain to another!

Granted I didn't specifically say to look for a footprint of Enceladus in/near Saturn's aurora (but it was certainly the implication, considering the title of the article!). Anyway... I'm glad to see others are following the same line of inquiry!

Best,
~Michael Gmirkin

[flyingcloud]

Saturn System Moves Oxygen from Enceladus to Titan

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 002535.htm

ScienceDaily (July 7, 2010) — Complex interactions between Saturn and its satellites have led scientists using NASA's Cassini spacecraft to a comprehensive model that could explain how oxygen may end up on the surface of Saturn's icy moon Titan. The presence of these oxygen atoms could potentially provide the basis for pre-biological chemistry.

The interactions are captured in two papers, one led by John Cooper and another led by Edward Sittler, published in the journal Planetary and Space Science in late 2009. Cooper and Sittler are Cassini plasma spectrometer team scientists at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md.

"Titan and Enceladus, another icy moon of Saturn, are chemically connected by the flow of material through the Saturn system," Cooper said.

In one paper, Cooper and colleagues provide an explanation for forces that could generate the Enceladus geysers that spew water vapor into space. In the other, published in the same issue, Sittler and colleagues describe a unique new process in which oxygen that circulates in the upper atmosphere of Titan can be carried all the way to the surface without further chemical contamination by being encased in carbon cages called fullerenes.

The work draws upon previous work by Sittler and others that model the dynamics of how particles, including water molecules, travel from Enceladus to Titan. At Enceladus the flow process begins with what they call the "Old Faithful" model, after the Old Faithful geyser in Yellowstone National Park. In this model, gas pressure slowly builds up inside Enceladus, then gets released occasionally in geyser-like eruptions.

Unlike terrestrial geysers, or even geyser-like forces on Jupiter's moon Io, the model proposed by Cooper shows that charged particle radiation raining down from Saturn's magnetosphere can create the forces from below the surface that are required to eject gaseous jets.

Energetic particles raining down from Saturn's magnetosphere -- at Enceladus, mostly electrons from Saturn's radiation belts -- can break up molecules within the surface. This process is called radiolysis. Like a process called photolysis, in which sunlight can break apart molecules in the atmosphere, energetic radiation from charged particles that hit an icy surface, like that of Enceladus, can cause damage to molecules within the ice. These damaged molecules can get buried deeper and deeper under the surface by the perpetual churning forces that can repave the icy surface. Meteorites constantly crashing into the surface and splashing out material might also be burying the molecules.

When chemically altered icy grains come into contact beneath the surface with icy contaminants such as ammonia, methane and other hydrocarbons, they can produce volatile gases that can explode outward. Such gases can create plumes of the size seen by Cassini. Cooper and colleagues call such icy volatile mechanics "cryovolcanism."

What's unique about the "Old Faithful" model is that it "is a model for cryovolcanism that is based on not only liquid water, but also requires the production of gases by the radiolytic chemistry observed at Enceladus," said Sittler.

The plumes that emanate from Enceladus' south polar region consist of water, ammonia and other compounds. Scientists have known since the 1980s that Saturn's magnetosphere is inexplicably filled with neutral particles. In the intervening decades, particularly since the discovery of plumes jetting out from the south pole of Enceladus, work has shown how some of the water molecules that escape from Enceladus get split up into neutral and charged particles and are transported throughout Saturn's magnetosphere.

Sittler's new model indicates that as these broken water molecules enter Titan's atmosphere, they may be captured by fullerenes -- hollow, soccer-ball shaped shells made of carbon atoms. Although the heavy molecules Cassini has detected in the upper atmosphere of Titan may be other molecules, Sittler suggests they are likely fullerenes.

In Sittler's model, the fullerenes then condense into larger clusters that can attach to polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons -- chemical compounds also found on Earth in oil, coal and tar deposits, and as the byproducts of burning fossil fuels. The fullerene clusters form even larger aerosols that travel down to Titan's surface.

This process protects the trapped oxygen from Titan's atmosphere, which is saturated with hydrogen atoms and compounds that are capable of breaking down other molecules. Otherwise, the oxygen would combine with methane in Titan's atmosphere and form carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide. Until now, scientists have not been able to explain how oxygen fits into the picture of the dynamics and chemistry of Saturn and its moons.

As the oxygen-rich aerosols fall to Titan's surface, they are further bombarded by products of galactic cosmic ray interactions with Titan's atmosphere. Cosmic rays bombarding the oxygen-stuffed fullerenes could produce more complex organic materials, such as amino acids, in the carbon-rich and oxygen-loaded fullerenes. Amino acids are considered important for pre-biological chemistry.

Scientists have been able to couple the new models that describe the generation of plumes at Enceladus and oxygen ion capture in fullerenes near the top of Titan's atmosphere to existing theories of the transport of oxygen across the magnetosphere. Taken together, Sittler and Cooper suggest a chemical pathway that allows the oxygen to be introduced to Titan's surface chemistry.

"Cooper and Sittler's work helps us understand more about the potential for chemical interactions among Saturn's moons," said Linda Spilker, Cassini project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif.

"The Saturn system is indeed a dynamic place, with the Enceladus plumes creating the E ring and loading the magnetosphere with water which interacts with Titan and the other moons," Spilker said.

The Cassini mission is a joint effort of NASA, the European Space Agency, and the Italian space agency Agenzia Spaziale Italiana. The mission is managed for NASA by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology. Partners include the U.S. Air Force, Department of Energy, and academic and industrial participants from 19 countries.

[flyingcloud]

sure sounds like plasma science
dynamic plasma columns between Saturn and her satelites

[nick c]

sure sounds like plasma science
dynamic plasma columns between Saturn and her satelites

Yes, but what is disturbing is the refusal to describe obvious electric phenomena with electrical terms, such as currents, circuits, etc. and replacing them with mechanical analogies such as "raining."
As has often been pointed out in EU literature- the use of euphemisms is symptomatic of a problem in understanding, this has not changed...

...charged particle radiation raining down from Saturn's magnetosphere...

Nick