Plasma Mythology forum discussion

[MattEU]

As it seems the mythology forum is not going to start again does anyone fancy chatting about it? There is a Plasma Mythology board just started here if anyone is interested in discussing our ancient myths and legends and how the Electric Universe Theory may explain them.

I understand that David Talbott has been very busy with his great video Symbols of an Alien Sky and for that we have to thank him. But I dont understand why a the whole Mythology board depends on one person. There must be others who have a similar knowledge to allow it to go ahead. I had so many questions but have now forgotten them And if it is not David or anyones fault then sorry but it seems to have been a puzzling and frustrating delay.

Hopefully this post may get the mythology board on this forum up and running again. It would be a great Christmas present from the thunderbolts team

[MattEU]

Ra, the sun god

Re was typically represented as a sun-disk, or as a falcon-headed man wearing a red sun-disk on his head. This imagery points to the god’s solar character. With epithets such as ‘opening the day,’ ‘light,’ ‘shinest’ and ‘lord of all lands,’ we are presented with traits which are consistent with the life-giving properties of the Sun we experience today. This makes perfect sense, until we turn our attention to Re’s most common representation – the red disk.

...The Egyptians always depicted the sun as a red disk!

It matters little where Re’s symbol is found. Whether used as part of the ‘sacred’ inscriptions or as a pictorial image dressed with wings, cow’s horns, plumes or cobras, Re’s most basic form consisted of a simple red disk – why?

Quote from Gary Gilligan on his site (The God King Scenario - gks.uk.com) - Can we have our glaring ball back please?! Re, the RED sun


This seems to be amazing evidence that the Sun has changed within the last few thousand years, even if mainstream people say the sun has not changed the colour seems to have.

[Grey Cloud]

Hi MattEU,
You and Gary should realise that colours are symbolic of certain principles. The actual symbolism is dictated by the context.
Have you or Gary any idea of what the hieroglyphs associated with the image say? In fact can either of you say what the trees, the cow, the two orbs, the fact that one figure is seated on the cow and the other on a seat represent? Egyptian thinking is a bit more sophisticated than painting the Sun one colour or another just because it looks that way in the sky.

[MattEU]

Thanks GC for your input and this is exactly why we need to be able to discuss Myths and Legends and the EU somewhere

I don't know much about Egyptian stuff and never will pretend that i do. I hope to learn from those with a lot more experience, knowledge and insight but at the moment thats not possible on thunderbolts

Please can you or someone explain why it is red and the other stuff you mentioned as I would really like to know.

Cheers

[Grey Cloud]

Hi MattEU,

To my mind the best and most informative writer on the ancient Egyptians is R. A. Schwaller de Lubicz. I know that there are several members on these forums who think likewise.

As to the colour red, the following is from the only Schwaller book I have that has an index:

“Existence in particular and three phases of genesis of the particular form serve as general symbol to describe a becoming which involves three essential aspects:
First of all, the seed produces a scission of the undefined into definition. This is what is called corruption (corrupt: Latin com, together, + rumpere, to break into pieces), the ‘philosophical putrefaction’. In this phase, the seed loses its initial aspect. It now fixes undefined Being and begins its corporification. The seed rots in the earth, the spermatozoon apparently dies; this is metaphorically called the black phase. This original scission produces at one and the same time the root, black in nature (chlorion, placenta) and the germ (the embryo in the amnion), white in nature.

The second aspect is white. This is the vegetative phase giving form and body to the undefined. Nourishment and respiration give life to the being now determined; the black impurity has been cast away ‘below’.

The third aspect is red. It is animation, the completion of the fruit, the concretizing of the original and abstract impulse into a particular form which can give forth a new seed and then die again.

These are the three great phases of genesis which are constantly evoked in ancient Egypt and which can be found at the basis of all its symbolism. For example, the sacred scarab is the hieroglyph designating all transformation or evolution; the life of this insect presents the following characteristics:
-The scarab lays its egg in a pellet of dung which it buries underground in absolute darkness: the black phase which will last for about one month until the egg reaches maturity.
-From this egg, a white larva is born, which during the second month, the white phase, feeds on the substance of the egg and digests.
- Next there comes the nymphal phase during which the immobile mummy works its transformation: From this mummy emerges the new scarab, ‘the head and thorax of dark read, the abdomen of opaque white, and the wing-sheaths of translucent white…’ The scarab itself, the final fruit, will again be black.

Can the three phases and even the three colours be better symbolized?”

The Symbols of the Phases.
“Black, white and red bring to mind the three colours constantly evoked in the Pharaonic symbolique.

Black is ine of the names of Egypt because of its black soil (black is called km and the Black kmt or kemit).

White (hdj) is the homonym for light and also designates the white mace that strikes the impure in order to evoke the pure; it also designates the white crown of the South. In the temple of Luxor, south corresponds to east through the arrangement of the crowns, so that south = eat, the sunrise = the left = white, and consequently corresponds to our spring.

Red (dshr) qualifies the desert (dryness), and the Sethian animals of the blazing land. It is also the crown of the north. Horus, who at Luxor takes his place in the west so that north = west, sunset = the right = red, and corresponds to our autumn.” Sacred Science, pp201-03.

Schwaller finishes this section with the following sentence:
“Myth is the exhaustive study of the multiple effects of simple causes”.

Now I realise that the above probably wont make much sense in and of itself. I have provided it just to give some idea of the complexity and subtlety of the Egyptian way of thinking. Other mythologies are similar, if not as head melting, as the Egyptian. With any mythology it is imperative to at least attempt to get yourself into the mindset of the people who originated it.
One would also do well to bear in mind that the colour symbolism outlined here is only a small part of it.
And, for those interested in such matters, what is being described here is part of the alchemical process – hence the use of the word ‘transformation’ and the phrase ‘philosophical putrefaction’.

Hope this helps Matt but there’s no substitute for a lot of reading and a lot of thinking.

[MattEU]

Cheers for info and starting me on my way with this topic.

Have you now accidently volunteered to run the Mythology forum?

[Grey Cloud]

Cheers for info and starting me on my way with this topic.

Have you now accidently volunteered to run the Mythology forum?

Not me, I would only fall foul of the censors again. The folks round here prefer a more literal reading of mythology.
I'd be willing to attempt to answer any questions you have via email.

BTW I'm a big fan of the stuff you post about Malta.

[MattEU]

GC - thanks and thanks!

Sorry to hear that your views might have got your in trouble but I think this confirms we need a mythology forum where everyone can say them and the experts can reply with what they think. I see that someone else has asked about the mythology forum on an another board! I know i keep going on about it but it seems even more strange that with the release of "Symbols of an Alien Sky" and people looking to follow it up we dont have the forum up and running.

I am pleased you like the Malta geology thing, there is a lot more to come over the next few months. Basically I have spent a couple of years running round the islands being a rock pervert. Seen some amazing stuff that I think is EU or at least very difficult to explain geology wise.

I will be posting stuff and really hope that people will not just have a look at it but also give positive critiscm and really contribute to it. As its such a new subject I need peoples help to work out what I am seeing and how to interpret it. So please feel free to let me know what you think, what I have got wrong according to EU thinking etc.

[The Aten]

Can’t make out the hieroglyphs too clearly but above represents an afterlife scene from the burial chamber of Sennedjem (21st dynasty). The squatting figure (squatting figures are to be associated with the afterlife) on the right is Re-Harakhty seen wearing the traditional sun disk and cobra on his head. The deceased, Sennedjem is shown as a squatting figure with a green face squatting on a sun-calf. He will shortly become ‘Horus’ and rise with the Sun. Many Egyptians aspired to spend eternity with the Sun god, others in the company of Osiris. Hardly surprising given a sky littered with large red boulders and cometary bodies who were believed to be the kas (doubles) of the Egyptians. Such bodies would literally appear to rise and set with the eternal sun, others were seen to join Osiris as stars (transposed Egyptians) in the night sky.

The Sun was said to rise each morn in the form of a calf between two sycamore tress made of turquoise. This is an allusion to the celestial cow goddess Hathor (“house of the king”), whose numerous epithets included “mistress of Turquoise” - or as I contend earth’s rings which were physically observed nurturing many kingly planets and smaller satellites during the night and as they initially rose each day. (The same phenomenon occurring as we speak between Saturn’s rings and Prometheus, which can be seen sucking material from Saturn’s F ring. http://www.gks.uk.com/gks2/). As the red Sun rose its light would appear to split the vast amounts of dust and debris littering the horizon into two turquoise trees.

Fortunately I don’t need to call upon complicated explanations for the wonderful but enigmatic world of the Egyptians. I simply add planetary chaos into the equation and many enigmatic scenes such as the one above become understandable. Chaos gave us a sky dominated by red disks and I’m not surprised by the two orbs above. The one on the left in all probability doesn’t represent the Sun, otherwise it would be shown the same as the one on the right i.e. red disk with a yellow ring incorporating the cobra. It represents Sennedjem as a red disk rising with the Sun god Re. Again, we’re back to the numerous references of the deceased spending the afterlife in the ‘company of Re’ (numerous refs in the BOD).

The Red Sun.

3,000 years of Pharaonic rule and yet not one single yellow/gold Sun with a complete(important) sweep of sunrays. I can even explain the yellow ring surrounding the red sun above. This represents the much hotter and highly active corona which was clearly seen lashing out into space to vanquish Egypt’s enemies. I am of course referring to CME’s, prominences and flares - all observed and naturally represented by a snake that literally spat fire and venom. Only the Sun’s ‘snake’ can spit fire, cobras on earth do not spit fire. As the Red Sun set into a debris filled horizon its defensive actions became even more visible (same scenario as Red sun at sunset today), hence the belief that Re was about to commence battle with the demons of the underworld (flat earth). He was seen kicking and screaming as he set in the west and still fighting as he rose victorious in the east. Where else could such beliefs come from given Egypt today has one of the most sunniest and driest climates in the world? How do you look at the tranquil Egyptian sun and believe battle is about to commence? How do you pass on such weird beliefs throughout the generations? For me there is only once plausible explanation, the Sun was actually observed battling on a daily basis, exactly as recorded. Furthermore, it appeared red exactly as depicted because it was hazed behind 93 million miles of dust and debris.

‘Red is also a colour given to the Sun, red at its rising and its setting.’
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/colors.htm
Really, so where’s the daytime suns?

‘With decorations in gold leaf or yellow paint to represent gold, which both form the flesh of the gods and as a colour had a close association with the Sun god.’
(Robins, quoting on the gold funerary mask of an elite woman, The Art of Ancient Egypt, 2000, p 146)

But the Sun was depicted Red! What are they on about? Perhaps, like many others, their subconscious cannot accept a red sun.

‘Because of its warm glow and indestructibility, gold was thought to be the flesh of the Sun god Ra and contained supernatural powers.’ (Discovery Channel, Age of Gold, 2004)

‘The colour yellow was often associated with the sun-disk and with gold, or nbw. Gold was not only associated with the Sun, it was also the flesh of the gods.’ (http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/colors.htm).

I could go on, and on, and on….

Gary Gilligan

http://www.gks.uk.com/

[The Aten]

To add to my above post in regards to the Red Sun.

The distinctly odd attire worn by the ancient Egyptians – the loincloth

It is puzzling that ancient Egyptians wore nothing more than a loincloth. Look at any Egyptian relief, whether depicting workers in the field or soldiers following the pharaoh into battle, and you will notice the figures are shown wearing loincloths. Even Hollywood movies and documentaries take their lead from these reliefs and depict the Egyptians in this distinctly odd and impractical attire.

Egypt today has one of the hottest and sunniest climates in the world. During the summer months its average daily sunlight is 12 hours a day; it is incredibly hot and sunny. The intensity of the summer heat is such that it requires the population to cover themselves from head to toe for protection. Even the Egyptian tourist board advises extreme caution against the Egyptian Sun. If the population of modern Egypt emulated the attire worn by the ancient Egyptians, they would be severely burnt. How was it possible to wear nothing more than a loincloth in such intense heat?

The answer is so simple it beggars belief.

A hazed red sun allowed the Egyptians to wear nothing more than a loincloth.

This ‘twilight world’ allowed the Egyptians to endlessly work the fields, build great monuments. Such activities could be carried out at anytime during the day as there was no scorching Sun to impede their work. Temples such as the Vatican of ancient Egypt, the temple complex dedicated to the king of the gods Amun at Karnak, could be worked upon every daylight hour as there was no intense heat as experienced today.

I would like to point out that although the Sun was hazed behind 93,000 millions of miles of debris, electrically, it was highly active, almost on overdrive in regards to its electrical output, and this played havoc with earth’s aurora. I will write about this, or should I say, show where this is clearly written down by our ancient forebears shortly.

Squatting figures = Spokes

The unusual squatting figures in MattEU’s first post above are ubiquitous in Egyptian tombs and afterlife papyri. More of which can be seen on the top register of the following papyrus http://www.egyptsbookofthedead.com/imag ... e13lg.jpg. For me, this is a very unusual way to draw somebody squatting. You may disagree but I thinks its weird.

I believe the basic outline of the squatting figures derive form actual observations of ‘electrical’ spokes apparitions in earth’s rings (Hathor). The same phenomenon observable today in Saturn’s rings. See here http://www.gks.uk.com/images/Nasa%20Sat ... Spokes.jpg or a video here http://library.thinkquest.org/15200/med ... /spoke.avi
The question is where, if not from actual observations did these unusual squatting figures originate?

I’ve written a bit more about this here http://www.gks.uk.com/gks2/

Gary Gilligan

http://www.gks.uk.com/

[Grey Cloud]

Aten wrote:

Fortunately I don’t need to call upon complicated explanations for the wonderful but enigmatic world of the Egyptians.

Your needs are irrelevant. The Egyptian world-view is very sophisticated whether you like it or not.
Schwaller, who I was quoting, spent 15 years on site at Luxor. He was an academic class mathematician, studied art under Matisse, was well-versed in modern science and philosophy, Alchemy and Hermeticism, knew his Tao and Vedanta and ancient philosophy generally. He did not have his own simplistic theory but studied Egypt in light of the 2,000 years-plus of esoteric writing on the subject (e.g. Pythagorean philosophy, Qabala and the aforementioned Alchemy and Hermeticism). As a source of knowledge he is a rung or two above the Discovery Channel and TourEgypt.

I have said on several occasions on these forums that unless one understands the underlying philosophy behind any ancient culture, then all one will do is to impose one’s own modern prejudices onto that culture.

I could go on, and on, and on….

So could I.

[The Aten]

GC I see nothing in your source that’s addresses the very simple question as to why the Egyptians coloured the sun red. The references I’ve supplied do at the very least refer to the Sun.

I’m surprised by your dismissal of Tour Egypt as been a "rung or two below" Schwaller. Many scholars consider the site to be a reliable source of information and they are often referred to in publications such as Ancient Egypt.

I notice you didn’t mention my other source, Gay Robins, who has written at least 13 books, many covering the art of the Egyptians. Is she also, "a rung or two" below Schwaller?

Gary Gilligan

http://www.gks.uk.com/

[StefanR]

Perhaps it's not so much a question of who's source has the biggest... , but personally I concur more with GreyCloud in what he is saying about that colours were used in symboloic form. Of course this is not a fact that is hewn in stone, so to say, as sometimes it is used to differentiate or for other purposes and reasons.
One of the difficulties with Egypt and Egyptian culture is, at least for me, the fact that that culture is one stretching over a large period and huge tract of land. So much has been lost, looted and destroyed for all kinds of reasons that a lot is hard to retrace and puzzle back together.
As for a red sun, before resorting to hypotheses that are more difficult and out of the box (nothing wrong with that)
there are a lot more sources to find that can inform us:

Red (desher) was the color of life and of victory. During celebrations, ancient Egyptians would paint their bodies with red ochre and would wear amulets made of cornelian, a deep red stone. Seth, the god who stood at the prow of the sun's barque and slew the serpent Apep daily, had red eyes and hair.

Red was also a symbol of anger and fire. A person who acted "with a red heart" was filled with rage. "To redden" meant "to die". Seth while the god of victory over Apep, was also the evil murderer of his brother Osiris. His red coloration could take on the meaning of evil or victory depending on the context in which he is portrayed. Red was commonly used to symbolize the fiery nature of the radiant sun and serpent amulets representing the "Eye of Re" (the fiery, protective, and possibly malevolent aspect of the sun) were made of red stones.

The normal skin tone of Egyptian men was depicted as red, without any negative connotation.

Red paint was created by Egyptian artisans by using naturally oxidized iron and red ocher.

http://www.egyptianmyths.net/colors.htm

To dismiss the symbology of colours too soon and paint them in a literal corner is something to be very careful about as one for instance in the case of "Egyptian culture" one has to than also explain were all the green and blue folks depicted in hieroglyphics came from and went to.

By the way do you see the clothing?

[The Aten]

StefanR From your same source:

Both the sun and gold were yellow and shared the qualities of being imperishable, eternal and indestructible.

So why not show the Sun god Re in his truest and most powerful form, exactly as we see it.

Red, is by comparison pretty drab compared to a blinding golden glaring ball.

Further, I would agree with convention, gold was indeed the 'flesh of the gods' - a red sun with golden bursts of energy in the form of prominences, CME's and flares emanating from the surface or 'flesh' of a red sun would only confirm this belief.

Gary Gilligan http://www.gks.uk.com/

[Grey Cloud]

Both the sun and gold were yellow and shared the qualities of being imperishable, eternal and indestructible.

This is incorrect. Neither the Sun nor gold are eternal or indestructible.

Aten wrote:

So why not show the Sun god Re in his truest and most powerful form, exactly as we see it.

1. Why do the Egyptians never show the Sun as circular? 2. You appear to be equating Re with the Sun, which is incorrect. The Sun is a symbol of Re; Re is not the Sun.