Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:39 pm

Plain and simple, it is a Z Pinch.
Wal Thornhill wrote:This new discovery that is "not explained by any current model" and "will require the textbooks to be rewritten," is powerful evidence in favor of the Electric Sun model since the bright band is controlled by the galactic magnetic field and not the Sun. The overall shape seems to conform to the Z-pinch mechanism and not the mechanical picture of the Sun plowing through the interstellar medium. I plan to have an article written about it real soon.

They can argumentum ad hominem, but it amounts to nothing.
Lets face it, how many times will they find something they never expected and cannot explain.
It gets stale real fast, especially when you offer the correct answer and explanations, complete with predictions, and they go midevil on your ass, with their religous dogma from their "church of sciencetology".
:roll:
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby minorwork » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:38 pm

Tell me somebody predicted this finding by Plasma Cosmology models. IBEX is now mapping the second survey. Change is afoot. No suprise. What sort of changes will be predicted by plasma cosmology? Yeah, data is thin but at least the ribbon being perpendicular to galactic magnetic fields seems an electrical phenomena.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby squiz » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:21 am

Lots of articles on this now.
Nasa has some updated visuals here. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ibex/allsky_visuals.html

Lots of ideas being thrown around in the various articles but at least the consensus seems to be the the galactic magnetic field is the dominating force at work. Interesting stuff with the cassini data, also this....

Equally puzzling are observations of the same boundary region with an instrument on the Cassini spacecraft, which recorded the density of atoms at higher energies, above 6,000 electron volts. From its vantage point at Saturn, Cassini sees a belt rather than a ribbonlike structure, a team led by Krimigis also reports in Science. The belt is substantially broader than the ribbon seen by IBEX but is in the same general area.


http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/10/ibex/

Apparently the second map is already beginning to look like it is changing shape from six months ago.
Perhaps it's not a permanent feature? a result of the contracted heliosphere? Sorry I always gotta use a lot of question marks. :)
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby junglelord » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:19 am

It is a dynamic Z Pinch occuring b/t two double layers.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
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Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby Eileenla » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:23 am

Wow - I just logged on to post this link and ask questions- you all are on it! Thanks for keeping up!!!! :D
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The IBEX Mission

Unread postby psychegram » Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:13 pm

I'm actually kind of shocked that this hasn't been mentioned here yet:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 143059.htm

In brief, the IBEX mission (Interstellar Boundary Explorer) is finding filamentary structures at the edge of the heliopause of far greater intensity than theory predicted (no kidding) and of course of entirely 'unexplained' form and structure. One implication is that the galaxy's *******magnetic field is putting the Sun's under much greater *******magnetic stress than was previously imagined. I'm sure everyone here will be able to fill in the redacted parts of this little summary, and implications of this discovery as well.

[post merged with this thread - mod]
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby allynh » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:28 pm

ScienceNews wrote:“Our maps show structure and energy spectra that are completely different from what any model has predicted,” says study co-author Herbert Funsten of the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.


I suggest the EU guys have Peratt over at Los Alamos go talk to Funsten.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby junglelord » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:25 pm

allynh wrote:
ScienceNews wrote:“Our maps show structure and energy spectra that are completely different from what any model has predicted,” says study co-author Herbert Funsten of the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.


I suggest the EU guys have Peratt over at Los Alamos go talk to Funsten.


LOL, thats funny, but shockingly ovbious what has become of our religous church of scientology and National Security.

It shows how compartamentalization, has created those who know more and more about less and less, as Feynman or Carver Mead said. Either way, there are 12 levels of leverage in all systems. Knowledge is level six and above and is need to know, and compartamentalized. So there is a lot of stuff that is not known by many people. What they sell to the public via the machine of modern science, is a religion, when it comes to dialogue, and very few have enough inner sense, to figure it out on their own. Even the very powerful, tow the party line, gravity only, dark matter, dark energy, 98 percent of the universe, blah, blah, blah.

I again invite anyone to watch the first lecture series on EM from MIT with professor Lewin.
He states, that dispite the ovbious thought from the information in the lecture, one would assume that space must be full of electricity, but it is not.....is a total fake out from the very end of Lesson ONE!

Either way, most of those from Los Alamos, who went to MIT would have been totally sidelined in their education, if you ask me, about space and electricity, if they took Professor Lewins classes.

Then he NEVER mentions Tesla, not once, and infact goes out of his way to NOT mention him.
The history of the EU is not part of MIT....and so it goes.

I call it brainwashing.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
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Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby keeha » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:59 am

Solrey you posted the 'outdated image.' Here is the nEU:
Image
I thank PhysOrg.com for this article on a paper published Oct. 15 in Science Express.
Our model of the heliosphere indicates that the local interstellar medium (LISM) magnetic field (BLISM) is transverse to the line-of-sight (LOS) along the ribbon, suggesting that the ribbon may carry its imprint. The force-per-unit area on the heliopause from field line draping and the LISM ram pressure is comparable to the ribbon pressure if the LOS ~ 30 to 60 AU and BLISM ~ 2.5 μG.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:40 am

squiz wrote:
Equally puzzling are observations of the same boundary region with an instrument on the Cassini spacecraft, which recorded the density of atoms at higher energies, above 6,000 electron volts. From its vantage point at Saturn, Cassini sees a belt rather than a ribbonlike structure, a team led by Krimigis also reports in Science. The belt is substantially broader than the ribbon seen by IBEX but is in the same general area.



Sort of reminds me of our planet's "Van Allen Belts"... any chance that the "belt" is actually just the contact point of a big plasma torus around the outside of our plasmasphere? They did say that it appeared to be filamentary, right?

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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby vukcevic » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:32 am

Hardly a huge surprise, but NASA does need money, so a bit of extra publicity will not harm the cause.
Image
Dark brown points to the ‘ribbon’ location.
larger image:
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/2558 ... NAs_HI.jpg
more:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stereo/news/invisible_frontier.html
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby solrey » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:56 am

From Physicsworld.

According to McComas, the ribbon seems to be full of charged particles, which seem to have been concentrated along its length –- but how they got there is a mystery.

IBEX data suggest the alignment of the ribbon is related to the local interstellar magnetic field, which could mean that its origins lie outside of the solar system. The ribbon also appears to have a fine structure, suggesting that the ion concentrations vary along its length.


AHHAH! Not just energetic neutrals but also full of charged particles, ion concentrations vary along its length AND evidence that it's origins lie outside the solar system (although that may be in reference to the interstellar magnetic field only), but I think they're correct in the general statement.

Definitely describes a toroidal ring current surrounding a spherical DL, although I'll bet the devil in the details describes more of a subtle hourglass form to that spherical shape.

suggesting that the ion concentrations vary along its length


Suggests to me that the concentrations should coincide with the positions of at least Jupiter and Saturn, if not all of the gas giants. This connection should reveal itself over time as those planets move along their orbits.

I think, with "real time" monitoring of the belt region (ring current), changes in energy levels (KeV), and neutrals to ions ratios, can be used to predict changes in solar activity weeks or months in advance (times depending on particle velocity/density/B strength).

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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby nick c » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:05 pm

"the ribbon seems to be full of charged particles"
Aha! 8-)

Dave Smith wrote:Giday John, from a private communication from Wal Thornhill, used with permission:
Wal Thornhill wrote:...I plan to have an article written about it real soon.

This is going to be good... real good. I can't wait.

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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby MGmirkin » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:06 pm

Might as well weigh in with a few links...

(IBEX Satellite Finds Ribbon-like Structure At Edge Of Heliosphere)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 143059.htm

(New View Of The Heliosphere: Cassini Helps Redraw Shape Of Solar System)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 101807.htm

Papers:

(IBEX)
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/s ... 5951/350-a
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1180906
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1180981
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1180927
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1180927
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1180986
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/1180971

(Cassini)
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/a ... /1181079v1

(Visuals)
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ibex/ ... suals.html

Apparently relating back to these stories:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ibex/allsky_map.html
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ibex/ ... lease.html

It seems that, together, IBEX and Cassini are set to rewrite the textbooks on the solar system (their words, not mine!)...

The Cassini release wrote:"These images have revolutionized what we thought we knew for the past fifty years; the sun travels through the galaxy not like a comet but more like a big, round bubble" said Stamatios Krimigis, principal investigator for MIMI, which is orbiting Saturn. "It’s amazing how a single new observation can change an entire concept that most scientists had taken as true for nearly fifty years."

The IBEX release wrote:"We were expecting tie-dye and instead found noodle soup," Funsten said.

What the mission has not found is what they were expecting, that is, evidence of large-scale dynamic processes that might be analogous to storms and tornadoes from the collision of a cold front and a warm front. A striking result is that "our maps show structure and energy spectra that are completely different from what any model has predicted," he noted.

In other words, recourse to Victorian era "fluid dynamics," "winds," "rains" and "bow shock" physics yielded wholly incorrect models. Time to go back to the drawing board! ;)

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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby allynh » Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:10 pm

MGmirkin wrote:In other words, recourse to Victorian era "fluid dynamics," "winds," "rains" and "bow shock" physics yielded wholly incorrect models. Time to go back to the drawing board!


When you guys talk about "Fluid Mechanics" and I talk about "Fluid Mechanics" we are talking two different things. When I see all those beautiful pictures from space of plasma events, I see "Fluid Mechanics".

Every single plasma event is Fluids, when you pick the right model. That is why Langmuir named it "Plasma" in the first place.

Check out the links I posted a while back and see what I mean. If anybody wants to discuss Fluids and Plasma its probably best to continue it in that thread.

Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?
viewtopic.php?p=18748&sid=8e4b3311dde32c5f52eb14b2be9da046#p18748
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