Is the Electric Universe a Fractal Too? Signs Point to Yes!

[davesmith_au]

In another recent post, I proposed that the universe has itself the characteristic of a punctual field, ie. a locus of a unified field, just as is an atom. While I know it irks most EU folk, it is quite clear to me that the universe is indeed finite.

OK, I'll bite, how is it you are "quite clear" that the universe is finite? If this is not directly related to the fractality issue, please start a new thread and I'll move this post to there. I've not heard one good argument for a finite universe - I'm not saying it IS infinite, but I've no reason yet to lean in the finite direction.

Cheers, Dave Smith.

[StevenO]

Can't help inserting my two cents here. Had two bits a while back, then a plug nickel, but here goes:
The universe is indeed fractal in nature, because the geometry by which it operates is scaleless... I say "scaleless", Wal, et.al., uses the term "scalability", but both signify that the same ratios/constants apply from the atomic domain to the galactic, and every scale in between. While this is not the exact definiton of "fractal", it is most certainly a primary fractal characteristic. In another recent post, I proposed that the universe has itself the characteristic of a punctual field, ie. a locus of a unified field, just as is an atom. While I know it irks most EU folk, it is quite clear to me that the universe is indeed finite.

Indeed, our current universe is the geometric progression from an "all material" point to a Klein Bottle with 3 dimensional vortices to an equisided triangle with two dimensional vortices to the tetrahedron with one dimensional vortices, to the Stella Octangula with zero dimensional vortices etc. in an infinite sequence to maximum size in which it is "all time" (dark matter) and back, after which the process repeats. I'm not sure if other universes could disturb the process though.

Also I'm sorry it looks like this supports Big Bang theory and Einsteins dynamic GR theory and dark matter. I think the amount of dark matter is an indication how for we have progressed towards reversal.

[webolife]

Whoa, StevenO...not sure I understood anything you just said, but I'll try to answer both you and Dave Smith to the best of my ability... I do not support a Big Bang view.
I do think that the "excess gravity" issue leading to the "dark matter" misconcept may very well be related to the fundamental nature of time. But I'm not smart enough to figure out how to explain it to myself, let alone anyone else. In "my" unified field (from time to time I feel the need to credit Robert Archer Smith, "The Truth About Light" circa 1980, should his work ever surface for reference), the fundamental glue of the universe is the all pervasive and paramount centropic force (RAS called this the T-Force [T for Time] but from what I currently understand this is also Dave Thomson's G-Force) which indeed applies universe-wide and at every scale, and results in universal application of entropy, and manifests as gravitation, nuclear force, electrostatics/voltage, and as light. The universe is subject to this force, ie all the material in the universe, which is what leads me to the inescapable conclusion that there is a finite amount of material in the universe. Now the universal field, or perhaps I mean the universe's field is infinite, ie. without periphery... I do not believe in "other universes", so if that satisfies your objection, Dave, I'm a happy camper. Prior to coming here to EU, I understood the CMB to be an indicator of the material universe's "periphery", although I think I understand and am intrigued by the EU possibility that the CMB may be a feature of the "local" galactic EM environment. (If that is the case, why is it not in an observable state of flux?)
I wish I were better with graphics, but let me paint a simplistic word picture. Imagine a dot surrounded by arrows (vectors) all radially pointing to the dot. This is the atom... this is the universe... and all loci in between. Surround the dot/ray picture with a [constrictive] circle, dotted perhaps, at the peripheral endpoints of the rays and call that time.
This may seem way too simplistic a model, but serves as a starting base for me.

[junglelord]

Indeed, our current universe is the geometric progression from an "all material" point to a Klein Bottle with 3 dimensional vortices to an equisided triangle with two dimensional vortices to the tetrahedron with one dimensional vortices, to the Stella Octangula with zero dimensional vortices etc. in an infinite sequence to maximum size in which it is "all time" (dark matter) and back, after which the process repeats. I'm not sure if other universes could disturb the process though.

Also I'm sorry it looks like this supports Big Bang theory and Einsteins dynamic GR theory and dark matter. I think the amount of dark matter is an indication how for we have progressed towards reversal.

I can follow the logic of your thoughts, as I have looked at these individual geometric implications. I don't see how that links to the big bang. I do not have any trouble with GR. I have issue with SR (E=MXc^2). Dark Matter can mean different things to different people. Are you speaking in the terms of cosmology, or in reference to another view of dark matter.

(ie Dave Thompson has dark matter in APM, but it is not the dark matter of cosmology, nor is it there for the same reason).

I currently work in the geometry of APM mentally, and his terminology. I will say that although we have the continual creation of matter in APM and the EU, I think the universe is eternal with no beginning would follow your train of thought.

[MGmirkin]

I do think that the "excess gravity" issue leading to the "dark matter" misconcept may very well be related to the fundamental nature of time. But I'm not smart enough to figure out how to explain it to myself, let alone anyone else.

"Excess gravity" and "dark matter" are misunderstandings of the processes involved. I don't think it has to do with the nature of time, though, just gravity, electricity and magnetism (perhaps minus the gravity ).

See Los Alamos researcher Peratt's work. In his work there does not appear to be an "issue" with galaxy rotation curves. Using a plasma / electric model rather than a gravitational model, the rotation curves derived through PIC simulation match ACTUAL observations of rotation curves... No need for "excess gravity" or "dark matter." Just an understanding that galaxies form along Birkeland currents and their rotational curves / structure can be matched by an electricity-in-plasma model.

That's all.

(Evolution of the Plasma Universe: I. Double Radio Galaxies, Quasars, and Extragalactic Jets)
http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/downl ... 6TPS-I.pdf

(Evolution of the Plasma Universe: II. The Formation of Systems of Galaxies)
http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/downl ... TPS-II.pdf

See part II, section V.B (5.B) on "Rotation Characteristics of Spiral Galaxies."

I don't have time to transcribe it, at the moment. Suffice it to say that the PIC simulation appears to match actual galaxy rotation curves.

These day show 1) a nearly linear solid-body rotation for the galaxy center (the first few arcminutes from center) 2) a nearly radially independent velocity profile in the spiral arms; and 3) distinct structure in the spiral arms that appears on the so-called flat portion of the velocity curve (beyond the first few arcminutes or, equivalently, the first few kiloparsecs).

[...]

The simulation data illustrate that 1) the plasma core rotates very nearly as a solid body, and 2) the spirals arms grow in length as they trail out along the magnetic isobars. Concomitant with a lengthening of the arms is a thinning of the arms. Because of this, and the axial current conducted through the thin plasma arms, a dicotron instability is produced.

[...]

XI. Conclusion

The difficulties encountered in explaining the dynamics of elliptical and spiral galaxies in the absence of magnetic fields and plasma physics are well known [15], [48] ... In a universe of plasma, Birkeland current sheets (ie, the flow of charged particles along magnetic field lines) can occur wherever a circuit and potential source exist.

[more exegesis snipped for brevity]

Whereas, the gravity-only paradigm cannot match galaxy rotation curves and must invent "excess gravity" or "dark matter" to account for the failure.

It comes down to a pretty simple argument, in the end, if Peratt's PIC simulations are accurate and that electricity in plasma plays a dominant role in shaping galaxies, etc.

One would assume they should be, coming from Los Alamos supercomputers designed specifically to deal with these kinds of things. Time and further data will be the arbiter of all, I suppose.

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin

[saturn6es]

Seams to me if Fractals are a sort-of way of life for computing everywhere on Earth, why wouldn't it be used and agreed to by all scientists. Should we put Wall Street to work figuring out our Cosmos? "To me everything is equal and scaleable!"

[MGmirkin]

if fractals are a sort-of way of life for computing everywhere on Earth, why wouldn't it be used and agreed to by all scientists. Should we put Wall Street to work figuring out our cosmos?

Not quite sure where that came from? What do you mean by "fractals are a way-of-life for computing everywhere on Earth"? Fractals are a sub-set of mathematics, not a basis (or superset) for it, methinks. Though, I could be wrong...

What would Wall Street (stocks, et al) have to do with figuring out the cosmos?

Cheers,
~Michael

[seasmith]

~
Stephen Wolfram's new video, Wolfram Alpha
is now available on the web:

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/events/2009/04/wolfram

.

[Anaconda]

Hi Michael Mgirkin,

Great call.

Mike is really too modest, he is a writer and a thinker, I've seen his work at a writing workshop website and the response is positive, I wish he would "slug it out" more at "modern" astronomy websites, but he's possibly more cerebral than I am, I tend to be the "bad cop" and I'll do my best to do a take-down on an asshole pseudo-sceptic and "get in their face", not everybody is like that

Anyway, I found a website called the Fractal Universe which is superb and a "must visit" in my opinion, and even an "encourage your friends" website because it is formatted as a "walk through" step-by-step image & pictures explanation of the fractal nature of the Universe and of course it is focussed on plasma and electricity. It really is a confirmation of the Electric Universe in pictures:

http://www.fractaluniverse.org/index.php

I hope Thunderbolts forum members and casual visitors take the time to visit this informative website (just the pictures in themsleves are worth the visit).

When asked what powers all this electrical energy (of the Electric Universe), I say, "I don't know" and in response I often ask, "what caused the 'big bang'?" This usually brings an "I don't know" in response.

What are the parameters of the Universe? I don't know.

How old is the Universe? I don't know.

How did the Universe start or did it start? I don't know.

Remember, Socrates said the wise man is the one who realizes how much he doesn't know, not the man who claims to know all

There is substantial scientific evidence that the Universe and electromagnetic phenomenon is fractal

[StevenJay]

I found a website called the Fractal Universe which is superb and a "must visit" in my opinion

You're right, very compelling and well presented! What grabbed my imagination were the multiple layers of relatively flat structures being mapped out. I have a feeling there might be a clue to something profound there. Something like: "OMG, it's true! The universe really is just a cosmic onion!"

[junglelord]

«The universe consists of a series of spiral bodies of diminishing size, each made in turn by plasma ejection and moulded by a spatial Coriolis effect: a rotating fractal universe.»
http://www.fractaluniverse.org/index.php

Yes thats what I have been saying for how long now?
The archetype structure is the spiral vortex.
Which led me to the fractal principle.
Sounds right to me.
But then again I saw it on my own with synesthesia.

Concerning the universe being finite....

http://www.fractaluniverse.org/index.php
The universe appears to be fractal, cyclic and self- regenerating. Implied is that it is eternal and infinite.

I am going with the EU and the Fractal Universe on this one.

[seasmith]

[ From final slide in the fractaluniverse.org series ]

The gathering of matter by Z-pinch nicely explains voids.

An excellent exposition indeed, but they could have gone the full Monty by explaining that the Lorentz Effect works both Yin and Yout.
All is obviously not "expansion on a plane".

To their great credit, they do assert that the 'currents' are fundamentally oscillating, not DC.

The question that begs: is fractality solely an expansive EM form and effect or:
If it is inherent in the aetheric matrix ? Hence the Hologramic-Fractal Nature, that we have discussed previously...

Compare the 26 second video of a simple flow depicted here:
http://www.nanowerk.com/news/newsid=11349.php
~

[solrey]

This paper confirms the fractality of electric discharge in plasma.

http://plasmascience.net/tpu/downloadsC ... novCos.pdf

E. Percolatory networking and plasma synergism:
Finally, the long-range bonds provided by the filaments make the network of electric currents in the plasma a perco-
lating network. Such a network is characterized by the correlation length tending to infinity with saturation of the local bonds between the neighboring building blocks of the system ͑the latter corresponds to achieving a threshold, the percola-
tion threshold͒. The strongest filaments ͑i.e., ones possessing highest electrical conductivity͒ form a backbone component
of the entire network ͑this works like a central nerve system of the plasma body͒, whereas the weaker filaments form a
local order within the entire network ͑this works like a peripheral nerve system͒. Significantly, the percolation in plas-
mas is based mostly on the long-living structures rather than the fluctuative, purely chaotic formations so that the interpre-
tation of structuring in plasmas in terms of the turbulence in the fluid-like plasmas should allow for the anomalous surviv-
ability of filaments. Thus, the self-organization goes far beyond the fractality as itself. The above sequence of
processes—from forming the proto-filaments to networking of filaments to give the filament-made stocking͑s͒—may be
considered as a self-organization cascade in a wide range of length scales. The resulting synergism may be illustrated by
the fact that sometimes plasma formations resemble biological structures ͑see Fig. 8 taken from the same Z-pinch
experiments͒.

FIG. 8. The cancer-like formation in a ‘‘stripped’’ image of a small part ͑7.5
cm diam circular layer͒ of the 60 cm long Z-pinch
͑Z-pinch axis is directed horizontally͒.

[Joe7000]

Words seem to be constructs, created to describe that which we think we know or understand and, of necessity, are a continuation of other words. Just as the number 2 follows number 1 and 4 follows 3 (they could not if 1 was not thought of as understandable) so too fractions were 'created' to fill in the spaces between 0 and 1 and 1 and 2, etc..

Now we are faced with a challenge: The number 1 is being challenged on many fronts, EU being a great candidate at the moment. If number 1 is being challenged it must mean we humans are not so sure we understand number 1 (at least as well as we once thought we did).

Not only are we not so intellectually positive as to the nature of number 1, we are faced with the problem of creating new words (not to mention phrases and sentences) to rectify our growing doubt about number 1, on the one hand, and replacing those doubts with something more understandable (believable) on the other.

Add to this the problem of 'the division of thought' which seems to be a major human trait: This particular problem is positive as well as negative since it is true argument that produces as its goal should, a better model to look at. But, when argument becomes bogged down (as we see at present) by religious attitudes expressed as scientific dogma we can only reap the negative side of it with little or counterproductive benefit.

With the above being merely a restated truth, where do we go to find new words, to replace, reinterpret and rebuild our model of the universe?

I offer the following as one place 'to go', in said search for new adjetives to describe our WOW universe:

Thought.

Thought, not as a noun but as a faster-than-light speed verb.

Thought, not as that which comes from physical or electric sources but as a medium from which this universe might actually have as its sole reason for being.

Thought, not as a means of negative argument but a means for exploring itself and therefore everything else.

What if we were to split our thought into two parts: Atomic and Dynamic?

Atomic thought looks at our physical universe with great physical machines to extend our sight.

Dynamic thought looks at our universe not as a thing but as a process, event and moment.

Atomic thought is limited by the speed-of-light.

Dynamic thought bypasses the limitations imposed by the speed of light.

Physics and science are presently looking for the Higgs Boson (the God Particle); a massless 'something' that gives mass to everything else in our atomic universe.

What if they find the Higgs Boson? What conclusions will be drawn as a result of finding the Higgs Boson? Will its discovery destroy our primary building block that physics clings to at present or will it shatter that block of thinking?

What if the Higgs Boson is not found? Will yet a larger LHC be built, and yet another and another?

What if each sentient creature already has the means of bypassing the limiting obstical known as the speed-of-light?

What if thought itself is the medium that holds our universe both apart and together?

What if all sentient creatures are merely processes, events and moments in a vast sea of thought.

Is it time yet to invent new words?

[StevenJay]

Is it time yet to invent new words?

I feel that we as a species are rapidly outgrowing linear linguistics altogether.

Gimme back that ol' time, straight-up telepathy with ALL of its implications and possibilities!