Duality itself runs rampant in myth, as well as being found in the astronomical/cosmological associations between Quetzalcoatl and the heavens and stars. Questions run the gamut from his morning star associations (as Venus) to the possibilities of his connection with Mercury. Ultimately it is this symbolism that runs through the myth and its astrological and cosmological incarnations which raise the questions and hint at Quetzalcoatl's power and pervasiveness. However, it is interesting to note the resemblance of the Quetzacoatl legend with that of the myth of the Pahana held by the Hopis of northern Arizona. Scholars have described many similarities between the myths of the Aztecs and those of the American Southwest, and posit a common root. The Hopi describe the Pahana as the "Lost White Brother," and they expected his eventual return from the east during which he would destroy the wicked and begin a new era of peace and prosperity. Hopi tradition maintains that they at first mistook the Spanish conquistadors as the Pahana when they arrived on the Hopi mesas in the 16th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl
Like some long-lost twin of Viracocha, the white and bearded Andean deity, Quetzalcoatl was depicted as having brought to Mexico all the skills and sciences necessary to create a civilized life, thus ushering in a golden age. He was believed, for example, to have introduced the knowledge of writing to Central America, to have invented the calendar, and to have been a master builder who taught the people the secrets of masonry and architecture. He was the father of mathematics, metallurgy, and astronomy and was said to have ‘measured the earth’. He also founded productive agriculture, and was reported to have discovered and introduced corn—literally the staff of life in these ancient lands. A great doctor and master of medicines, he was the patron of healers and diviners ‘and disclosed to the people the mysteries of the properties of plants’. In addition, he was revered as a lawgiver, as a protector of craftsmen, and as a patron of all the arts.
As one might not expect, he is again depicted as a white man with a beard. The beard is not an insignificant detail, as the native peoples had no facial hair. According to the Mayans, this figure came to them from over the sea “to escape the flood.” Kukulcan was the Mayan Quetzalcoatl, and was similarly depicted as a solar deity of reading, writing medicine and mathematics. His most well-known gift to them was the so-called “Mayan calendar”, reputed to have fixed the exact date of the world’s end. James Bailey writes:
“The Mayan calendar required a sophisticated mathematical system; it even included a number for zero. The Mayans were thus able to use large numbers, infinitely large. The only other peoples at this date with that skill it is said were the Babylonians and Assyrians, from whom the Phoenicians are said to have borrowed a large part of their mathematics. The Mayans calculated the solar year with marvelous accuracy as 365.2420 days by comparison with the modern calculation of 365.2422 days. This invention, along with their mathematical skills, seems to have appeared suddenly amid primitive people... .”
http://www.thevesselofgod.com/thefirsteden.html
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipt ... gods03.htm
Junglelord wrote:The deity known as Viracocha / Kukulkan / Quetzalcoatl was said to be responsible for giving these crafts to the, Incas, Mayas and Aztecs.
http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Viracocha.htm
The Incan Empire existed in South America, covering parts of modern-day Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Chile and Argentina, with its capital in the modern-day city of Cuzco, Peru. It is unknown how long the empire existed as there is scholarly debate to this day, some say as early as 9000 BCE others only give it a date of @ 1200 CE until the death of the last emperor at the hands of the Spanish Conquistadores in 1533.
weboflife wrote: I get quite a lot of insight into catastrophism and field unification this way from creationist researchers, and Intelligent Design adherents.
.Plasmatic wrote:...a lot of speculation ......The Myths associated with the civilizing God Kings are NOT about UFOs or Aliens. They are the record of the way ancient man reified the actual dramas in the sky. The ancients saw thw plasma and planets doing things that they believed were intelligent happenings and messages
I personally think you got something there, but are you willing to explore that? I requires an open mind and I know you have that? Do you want to shake the tree and see what apples will fall?Junglelord wrote:I believe its contact and not planets. I may be wrong. If these cultures had developed geometry, astronomy, etc. on their own, they would surely take pride in that fact, and take credit for it in their own history. If they hadn’t developed it themselves, yet produced artifacts that clearly demonstrate a knowledge of it, then it stands to reason that they must have learned it from someone else. Not only are the stories of tutelary deities nearly identical, often even the names of the figures are incredibly similar...
plasmatic wrote:The bearded man is a common "archetype" with specific mythical charachteristics that absolutly are planetary in origin. Ill look up some stuff in a little while for you. I am completly confident you will be satisfied with the evidence if you apply the same approach youve show in other subjects.
junglelord wrote:I was trying to see if others had done the same with contact and education from bearded white gods. When Spanish conquistadors arrived in South America, the indigenous population though they were witnessing the return of the white gods who had visited their people in antiquity, promising one day to return.
from a quote of junglelord wrote:The Mayans were thus able to use large numbers, infinitely large. The only other peoples at this date with that skill it is said were the Babylonians and Assyrians, from whom the Phoenicians are said to have borrowed a large part of their mathematics.
StefanR wrote:If you haven't got to the links, which I will try to post later , you will love them.
You will be shaken and stirred
a certain fictionalized British SIS agent
StefanR wrote:
Double "O" archetype?
davesmith_au wrote:Whilst this has all been interesting to follow, to some degree, I'd just like to encourage limiting discussion of the mythological aspects of EU or otherwise until such time as the proper forum for that is opened. I know it's been said before, but it won't be long at all now until the new forum opens up and discussion can be directed toward the published materials on such matters.
The Saturn myth and other relevant matters have been investigated with a highly disciplined, scientific approach and it won't do any good to allow too much speculation without understanding the whole foundation for suggesting these things in the first place. And it is necessarily a broad and information intense area of study which cannot be covered in a few sentences or a few posts.
And accordingly it will probably be the most intently monitored and moderated part of the whole forum so as not to allow people to throw just anything on the table. Much mythology is already shrouded in so much mysticism that it is difficult to sort the degree to which any of it relates to reality, so discussion will be limited to basing any assertions on evidence rather than 'neat' ideas.
So be patient for a couple more weeks, and let's try to avoid too much speculation until then.
Cheers, Dave Smith.
moses wrote:davesmith_au wrote:Whilst this has all been interesting to follow, to some degree, I'd just like to encourage limiting discussion of the mythological aspects of EU or otherwise until such time as the proper forum for that is opened. I know it's been said before, but it won't be long at all now until the new forum opens up and discussion can be directed toward the published materials on such matters.
The Saturn myth and other relevant matters have been investigated with a highly disciplined, scientific approach and it won't do any good to allow too much speculation without understanding the whole foundation for suggesting these things in the first place. And it is necessarily a broad and information intense area of study which cannot be covered in a few sentences or a few posts.
And accordingly it will probably be the most intently monitored and moderated part of the whole forum so as not to allow people to throw just anything on the table. Much mythology is already shrouded in so much mysticism that it is difficult to sort the degree to which any of it relates to reality, so discussion will be limited to basing any assertions on evidence rather than 'neat' ideas.
So be patient for a couple more weeks, and let's try to avoid too much speculation until then.
Cheers, Dave Smith.
Why won't it do any good to allow too much speculation ? I don't see it.
Say someone comes up with a weird speculation. What harm does it do ?
I don't see it. The moderator only has to make a note that it is a wild theory.
No problem ! What am I missing ? Why go into severe censorship mode ?
I don't get it.
Mo
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