REVELATION

[Plasmatic]

Wow , O.k. , there's a lot of speculation to deal with here , but Ill have to return to that in a bit . The Myths associated with the civilizing God Kings are NOT about UFOs or Aliens. They are the record of the way ancient man reified the actual dramas in the sky. The ancients saw thw plasma and planets doing things that they believed were intelligent happenings and messages. Man began to try to relive these events by imitation. The rights of kingship and class hierarchy systems were based on reified events of actual objective happenings. Ill be posting info and links later tonight on this topic.

Yes we do need to limit Myth discussion for a little longer , but not too much longer! But also speculation as well!

[junglelord]

I will wait and ovbiously I am new at this...but did you not just mix contact with thunderbolt work>
From what I can see they are two different things. You suggest that the link mistakes contact for planets....If I read you right. I pesonally think thats incorrect if that is indeed what you suggest. I may be wrong but its seems to me to be two seperate items. I mean they are specific about the god being a bearded white man who gave knowledge...I cannot see how that was a planet. Ancient civilizations all over the world tell us it was the "gods" who created and educated mankind. I see some parallels of course to what your saying about gods and talbots work but at the same time the specific idea of education being taught by a person (god) to uneducated man seems to me to be something specific and distinct from what Dave Talbot has pointed out. I believe its contact and not planets. I may be wrong. If these cultures had developed geometry, astronomy, etc. on their own, they would surely take pride in that fact, and take credit for it in their own history. If they hadn’t developed it themselves, yet produced artifacts that clearly demonstrate a knowledge of it, then it stands to reason that they must have learned it from someone else. Not only are the stories of tutelary deities nearly identical, often even the names of the figures are incredibly similar...

Lets wait for the forum...thanks for the dialogue.

[Plasmatic]

JL , I know you are a individuated thinker and are always open to better paradigms , or more exellent ways of seeing things. I mean no disrespect when I ask , could you tell me what youve read that pertains to Myth from the thunderbolts project. Im asking so It will help me point you to things somewhat familiar. The bearded man is a common "archetype" with specific mythical charachteristics that absolutly are planetary in origin. Ill look up some stuff in a little while for you. I am completly confident you will be satisfied with the evidence if you apply the same approach youve show in other subjects.

[junglelord]

My only exposure is to the google video Thunderbolts of the Gods.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1316220374
I have the Electric Universe book at home, but thats all. I was trying to see if others had done the same with contact and education from bearded white gods. When Spanish conquistadors arrived in South America, the indigenous population though they were witnessing the return of the white gods who had visited their people in antiquity, promising one day to return. There were in for an unpleasant shock. It was ironic, I thought, that the conquistadores in both Peru and Mexico should have benefited in the same way from local legends that prophesied the return of a pale, bearded god. If that god was indeed a deified human or ET. Recent scholarly theories suggest that the man-god may have been a wandering Viking who had lost his way. I find it hard to imagine a society that is so advanced like the mayans would not credit their own people for their knowledge like we do today instead of a bearded white god. I found it even odder that every myth of man and initial knowledge is from "gods". Only after that do we find man giving man credit for knowledge. Thats weird. If its not contact with a real man or a ET and its planets I await your information although I did find this.

Duality itself runs rampant in myth, as well as being found in the astronomical/cosmological associations between Quetzalcoatl and the heavens and stars. Questions run the gamut from his morning star associations (as Venus) to the possibilities of his connection with Mercury. Ultimately it is this symbolism that runs through the myth and its astrological and cosmological incarnations which raise the questions and hint at Quetzalcoatl's power and pervasiveness. However, it is interesting to note the resemblance of the Quetzacoatl legend with that of the myth of the Pahana held by the Hopis of northern Arizona. Scholars have described many similarities between the myths of the Aztecs and those of the American Southwest, and posit a common root. The Hopi describe the Pahana as the "Lost White Brother," and they expected his eventual return from the east during which he would destroy the wicked and begin a new era of peace and prosperity. Hopi tradition maintains that they at first mistook the Spanish conquistadors as the Pahana when they arrived on the Hopi mesas in the 16th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl

Like some long-lost twin of Viracocha, the white and bearded Andean deity, Quetzalcoatl was depicted as having brought to Mexico all the skills and sciences necessary to create a civilized life, thus ushering in a golden age. He was believed, for example, to have introduced the knowledge of writing to Central America, to have invented the calendar, and to have been a master builder who taught the people the secrets of masonry and architecture. He was the father of mathematics, metallurgy, and astronomy and was said to have ‘measured the earth’. He also founded productive agriculture, and was reported to have discovered and introduced corn—literally the staff of life in these ancient lands. A great doctor and master of medicines, he was the patron of healers and diviners ‘and disclosed to the people the mysteries of the properties of plants’. In addition, he was revered as a lawgiver, as a protector of craftsmen, and as a patron of all the arts.

As one might not expect, he is again depicted as a white man with a beard. The beard is not an insignificant detail, as the native peoples had no facial hair. According to the Mayans, this figure came to them from over the sea “to escape the flood.” Kukulcan was the Mayan Quetzalcoatl, and was similarly depicted as a solar deity of reading, writing medicine and mathematics. His most well-known gift to them was the so-called “Mayan calendar”, reputed to have fixed the exact date of the world’s end. James Bailey writes:

“The Mayan calendar required a sophisticated mathematical system; it even included a number for zero. The Mayans were thus able to use large numbers, infinitely large. The only other peoples at this date with that skill it is said were the Babylonians and Assyrians, from whom the Phoenicians are said to have borrowed a large part of their mathematics. The Mayans calculated the solar year with marvelous accuracy as 365.2420 days by comparison with the modern calculation of 365.2422 days. This invention, along with their mathematical skills, seems to have appeared suddenly amid primitive people... .”


http://www.thevesselofgod.com/thefirsteden.html
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipt ... gods03.htm

[StefanR]

it's a pity my links are on my home computer, so that will have to wait for a sec.

The deity known as Viracocha / Kukulkan / Quetzalcoatl was said to be responsible for giving these crafts to the, Incas, Mayas and Aztecs.

http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Viracocha.htm

I know what you are pointing at, and have been there too. But for me things change when you read the actual source books where these guys are happily making use of and by that proclaiming strange things.

The Incan Empire existed in South America, covering parts of modern-day Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Chile and Argentina, with its capital in the modern-day city of Cuzco, Peru. It is unknown how long the empire existed as there is scholarly debate to this day, some say as early as 9000 BCE others only give it a date of @ 1200 CE until the death of the last emperor at the hands of the Spanish Conquistadores in 1533.

It's mingling information of different sources like this, that is for me some kind of deliberate attempt to derail what one is looking for. I have the book of Posnansky- Tiahuanacu at home and believe me he did some great work which has nothing to do with Inca's. There is much more I could take out of that link which could show it's intent might be good but the overall compiling is shoddy (again). Such a shame, because works such as the book of Posnansky is really beautiful.

I get quite a lot of insight into catastrophism and field unification this way from creationist researchers, and Intelligent Design adherents.

Of course, anything goes. As long as one keeps in mind the intent of what is written and one is able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

...a lot of speculation ......The Myths associated with the civilizing God Kings are NOT about UFOs or Aliens. They are the record of the way ancient man reified the actual dramas in the sky. The ancients saw thw plasma and planets doing things that they believed were intelligent happenings and messages

.
To what does the speculation pertain in your view?
Stating those things in absolutes like that is not what I call objective. Aren't you afraid you might be digging yourself in? Are you still open to other viewpoints? Just asking out of curiousity?

I believe its contact and not planets. I may be wrong. If these cultures had developed geometry, astronomy, etc. on their own, they would surely take pride in that fact, and take credit for it in their own history. If they hadn’t developed it themselves, yet produced artifacts that clearly demonstrate a knowledge of it, then it stands to reason that they must have learned it from someone else. Not only are the stories of tutelary deities nearly identical, often even the names of the figures are incredibly similar...

I personally think you got something there, but are you willing to explore that? I requires an open mind and I know you have that? Do you want to shake the tree and see what apples will fall?

The bearded man is a common "archetype" with specific mythical charachteristics that absolutly are planetary in origin. Ill look up some stuff in a little while for you. I am completly confident you will be satisfied with the evidence if you apply the same approach youve show in other subjects.

I would be interested too, as you are so confident in your assertions.

I was trying to see if others had done the same with contact and education from bearded white gods. When Spanish conquistadors arrived in South America, the indigenous population though they were witnessing the return of the white gods who had visited their people in antiquity, promising one day to return.

I have been down that road, and it's a good one. It might even bring you full circle, as it has to. But the road is full of undergrowth and thorns, but if you have a curiousity for the weird ........

[StefanR]

The Mayans were thus able to use large numbers, infinitely large. The only other peoples at this date with that skill it is said were the Babylonians and Assyrians, from whom the Phoenicians are said to have borrowed a large part of their mathematics.

Well how about.....Indians or ....Chinese. Just for fun. There are some chinese who say a certain chinese ship got to South-America too.
In my view the often recurring referals to Babylonians/Assyrians/Phoenicians as sole source of some skill, reeks of judeo-christian prejudice.
Really, the first thing to do is to find the real source books. Only then can you actually see what is done to certain qoutes.
Reminds me sometimes of what you said about Tesla and National Security stuff.

[junglelord]

I try to use some gut instinct with some knowledge and some deductive reasoning. I see what your saying though and I apprciate the heads up. We all have our hunches. I have my own beliefs along with my scientific thoughts and my conspiracy theories. Its no secret I believe in a universe full of life and maybe its not to crazy that I also believe in inter/extra dimensionals beings of light.

[StefanR]

If you haven't got to the links, which I will try to post later , you will love them .
You will be shaken and stirred

[bboyer]

If you haven't got to the links, which I will try to post later , you will love them .
You will be shaken and stirred

"Shaken, not stirred ...." renders the best concoction according to a certain fictionalized British SIS agent.

[StefanR]

a certain fictionalized British SIS agent

Double "O" archetype?

[bboyer]

Double "O" archetype?

Yes. Thank you for staying on-topic. :chuckle:

[davesmith_au]

Whilst this has all been interesting to follow, to some degree, I'd just like to encourage limiting discussion of the mythological aspects of EU or otherwise until such time as the proper forum for that is opened. I know it's been said before, but it won't be long at all now until the new forum opens up and discussion can be directed toward the published materials on such matters.

The Saturn myth and other relevant matters have been investigated with a highly disciplined, scientific approach and it won't do any good to allow too much speculation without understanding the whole foundation for suggesting these things in the first place. And it is necessarily a broad and information intense area of study which cannot be covered in a few sentences or a few posts.

And accordingly it will probably be the most intently monitored and moderated part of the whole forum so as not to allow people to throw just anything on the table. Much mythology is already shrouded in so much mysticism that it is difficult to sort the degree to which any of it relates to reality, so discussion will be limited to basing any assertions on evidence rather than 'neat' ideas.

So be patient for a couple more weeks, and let's try to avoid too much speculation until then.

Cheers, Dave Smith.

[moses]

Whilst this has all been interesting to follow, to some degree, I'd just like to encourage limiting discussion of the mythological aspects of EU or otherwise until such time as the proper forum for that is opened. I know it's been said before, but it won't be long at all now until the new forum opens up and discussion can be directed toward the published materials on such matters.

The Saturn myth and other relevant matters have been investigated with a highly disciplined, scientific approach and it won't do any good to allow too much speculation without understanding the whole foundation for suggesting these things in the first place. And it is necessarily a broad and information intense area of study which cannot be covered in a few sentences or a few posts.

And accordingly it will probably be the most intently monitored and moderated part of the whole forum so as not to allow people to throw just anything on the table. Much mythology is already shrouded in so much mysticism that it is difficult to sort the degree to which any of it relates to reality, so discussion will be limited to basing any assertions on evidence rather than 'neat' ideas.

So be patient for a couple more weeks, and let's try to avoid too much speculation until then.

Cheers, Dave Smith.

Why won't it do any good to allow too much speculation ? I don't see it.
Say someone comes up with a weird speculation. What harm does it do ?
I don't see it. The moderator only has to make a note that it is a wild theory.
No problem ! What am I missing ? Why go into severe censorship mode ?
I don't get it.
Mo

[davesmith_au]

Whilst this has all been interesting to follow, to some degree, I'd just like to encourage limiting discussion of the mythological aspects of EU or otherwise until such time as the proper forum for that is opened. I know it's been said before, but it won't be long at all now until the new forum opens up and discussion can be directed toward the published materials on such matters.

The Saturn myth and other relevant matters have been investigated with a highly disciplined, scientific approach and it won't do any good to allow too much speculation without understanding the whole foundation for suggesting these things in the first place. And it is necessarily a broad and information intense area of study which cannot be covered in a few sentences or a few posts.

And accordingly it will probably be the most intently monitored and moderated part of the whole forum so as not to allow people to throw just anything on the table. Much mythology is already shrouded in so much mysticism that it is difficult to sort the degree to which any of it relates to reality, so discussion will be limited to basing any assertions on evidence rather than 'neat' ideas.

So be patient for a couple more weeks, and let's try to avoid too much speculation until then.

Cheers, Dave Smith.

Why won't it do any good to allow too much speculation ? I don't see it.
Say someone comes up with a weird speculation. What harm does it do ?
I don't see it. The moderator only has to make a note that it is a wild theory.
No problem ! What am I missing ? Why go into severe censorship mode ?
I don't get it.
Mo

This has nothing to do with censorship, let alone anything severe. Do you see any castigation in my words? I don't see it. Have you seen any posts deleted? Nope. It is simply about directing specifically mythology related material to the appropriate place, which will be set up in a couple of weeks.

David Talbott has asked that we minimize or abstain from any such discussion, and when push comes to shove we are all here at his invitation. He is inviting us to speak on this particular topic once he has set the framework and groundrules for doing so. Until then I don't think it's too much to ask people not to speculate too much on a topic they cannot know much about without having seen the material which they are, in effect, talking about.

Cheers, Dave Smith.

[Plasmatic]

WIth Daves posted insight , ill wait till the Myth forum for further input. However , Jl and Stephan , watch MythScapes REMEMBERING THE END OF THE WORLD-+ toward the end you will SEE why the beard is simulteaneously several other things in the comparative analysis. BTW , no I dont feel unobjective in my confidence . I have done the process of differentiation on the above context and in the present context of my knowledge am confident in my conclusions. I also am confident in my ability to reevaluate evidence in light of new RELEVENT insights. I have NO problem saying I was wrong when convinced by objective info.

I came from the whole Robert Temple , Adrian Gilbert crowd so Im familiar with the forms JL is mentioning.